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Portugal Featherweight Model 70’s Quality & Quality Control Superior ? #16227160 07/05/21
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Got involved in a conversation at the LGS the other day about Post 64 FWT’s. Someone was talking about how superior the quality on the Portugal FWT’s are compared to earlier FWT’s. I said I would rather have an early New Haven FWT XTR and, or a Classic Stainless FWT CRF G-5 Digit SN# with the old trigger any day. Of course everyone is entitled to their opinions. I am surely quality on both are fine and subject to everyone’s own opinions. Any comments / thoughts on Portugal vs New Haven Post 64 Featherweights?

Last edited by GAGoober; 07/05/21. Reason: Grammar
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Re: Portugal Featherweight Model 70’s Quality & Quality Control Superior ? [Re: GAGoober] #16229472 07/06/21
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I'll get my popcorn. Although in this forum, we are pretty civil. I wont badmouth the BACO too much, but believe the infamous Winchester model 70 should be made in the states. I do like the fwt models the op mentioned and have not seen qc issues with them, but I've heard there have been some issues with the latter models (7 digit classics). Like anything I guess. My favorites are the pre 64's, but the look of the classic featherweight stocks are nicer. Even nicer/more appealing than the Portuguese fwt. For some reason, the baco stock looks like a pregnant guppy, as compared to the pre 64, XTR, and classic stock. I hate to mention the box trigger in the BACO, because its not liked by the die hard model 70 guys. I can personally live with it after I install an ernie spring and get the pull weight down to 2.5 pounds. The pre64 style trigger always needs to be fine tuned as well. I like a crisp clean 2.5 pound pull and you cant get that with just an adjustment. As far as hunting rifles go, all of the model 70's are great. They all need to be properly glass bedded to achieve the best/most consistent accuracy. But once done right, you never have to worry about it again. Thats my take.


Originally Posted by raybass
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style.

Originally Posted by Pharmseller
You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole.
P


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Re: Portugal Featherweight Model 70’s Quality & Quality Control Superior ? [Re: GAGoober] #16230090 07/06/21
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ihave a few of each, fit nd finish are far better on the purtugese rifles, andnthey generally come with nicer fgured wood


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Re: Portugal Featherweight Model 70’s Quality & Quality Control Superior ? [Re: GAGoober] #16230823 07/06/21
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Much as it pains me to say it, the metal work on the Portuguese guns is better and more consistent than 1990’s/2000’s USRAC’s. At least as far as the stainless rifles…


“Perfection is Achieved Not When There Is Nothing More to Add, But When There Is Nothing Left to Take Away” Antoine de Saint-Exupery
Re: Portugal Featherweight Model 70’s Quality & Quality Control Superior ? [Re: GAGoober] #16231134 07/07/21
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I hate to say it, too, but I have had both, and currently have 4 Portuguese-made model 70s (2 Super Grades, 1 Featherweight, 1 Alaskan). The Portuguese made guns are the best rifles to ever carry the name Model 70. Accuracy is fantastic, triggers are exceptional, and fit and finish was better than any US made M70 I've ever owned or seen. They are at least as good, and in some ways better, than any other M70 produced anywhere at any time.

I love pre-64 M70s. Heck, I even liked my post-64 M70 push feed, which I think was better than my Remington 700 BDLs. (Wish I still had that post-64.) But I think the only reason to take a US-made pre-64 over one of the Portuguese-made M70s is nostalgia. Nostalgia has value so it's a valid reason. But the Portuguese guns are by and large better.

Browning taking over production of Winchester guns is the best thing that has happened to them in a very long time. FN Herstal owning and controlling all of it doesn't hurt either.

My newest M70, a Super Grade .30-06, which now wears a Leupold VX-5HD 2-10X in Talley Rings.

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]


Last edited by 10Glocks; 07/07/21.
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Re: Portugal Featherweight Model 70’s Quality & Quality Control Superior ? [Re: 10Glocks] #16231386 07/07/21
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Wow! That Super Grade is one sexy rifle.


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Re: Portugal Featherweight Model 70’s Quality & Quality Control Superior ? [Re: GAGoober] #16231489 07/07/21
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It's hard not to love a Super Grade.

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

I have one in .270, too. I'll have to take some pics of that. It's as stunning at this .30-06.

The only thing that's off-putting is the weight. It's heavy. 8lbs without a scope.

Re: Portugal Featherweight Model 70’s Quality & Quality Control Superior ? [Re: gitem_12] #16232415 07/07/21
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Originally Posted by gitem_12
ihave a few of each, fit nd finish are far better on the purtugese rifles, andnthey generally come with nicer fgured wood

This.

Re: Portugal Featherweight Model 70’s Quality & Quality Control Superior ? [Re: GAGoober] #16294293 07/29/21
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I have owned quite of few Model 70s circa 1990-2000 and I was told that the only thing different with the BACO rifles from the NH rifles was the trigger, can anyone elaborate?

Re: Portugal Featherweight Model 70’s Quality & Quality Control Superior ? [Re: GAGoober] #16294366 07/29/21
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I’m with BSA.. His thoughts echo mine pert near identical.

I think the machining and such is pretty nice on most of the BACO guns and the wood on some of the SG’s and French Walnut SGs is downright beautiful.


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Re: Portugal Featherweight Model 70’s Quality & Quality Control Superior ? [Re: 10Glocks] #16295680 07/29/21
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Certainly nothing to be ashamed of in that beauty, Herr Glock! From the days of the Model 54, believe 1934 forward, the Wincher bolt rifles with essentially the stocks (such as cheekpieces/butt drop angle, checkering pattern excepted), much the same. Only a few of the very early nineties SG labeled models without such as the black forend tip & SG swivels something of a dip. Otherwise, seems the SG image largely sustained! My .338 Win from '93 has tiger striping & quite nice. My 338 Win vintage 1960 also a beauty, with the more traditional pre '64 cheekpiece. Happy for the few I own!

As far as Browning parent. I can't particularly comment beyond generalization. I do understand their main focus nowadays, armaments. On wider scale, so many of the old quality names are now in Chinese inventory. Some of them good/great products, too many others... Not. I tend not to identify by brands in many such instances. With Winchesters, the only truly dark period in early '64+ era with material 'hit' to the brand. The Model 70... What to say! Pretty terrible. Their lever group finish pretty poor and only a bit better across the better part of two decades!

I've generally stuck to the older Winchesters, as many other brands. But SG's like the above, a definite lure!

Just my take!
Best!
John

Re: Portugal Featherweight Model 70’s Quality & Quality Control Superior ? [Re: iskra] #16295769 07/29/21
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Originally Posted by iskra
Certainly nothing to be ashamed of in that beauty, Herr Glock! From the days of the Model 54, believe 1934 forward, the Wincher bolt rifles with essentially the stocks (such as cheekpieces/butt drop angle, checkering pattern excepted), much the same. Only a few of the very early nineties SG labeled models without such as the black forend tip & SG swivels something of a dip. Otherwise, seems the SG image largely sustained! My .338 Win from '93 has tiger striping & quite nice. My 338 Win vintage 1960 also a beauty, with the more traditional pre '64 cheekpiece. Happy for the few I own!

As far as Browning parent. I can't particularly comment beyond generalization. I do understand their main focus nowadays, armaments. On wider scale, so many of the old quality names are now in Chinese inventory. Some of them good/great products, too many others... Not. I tend not to identify by brands in many such instances. With Winchesters, the only truly dark period in early '64+ era with material 'hit' to the brand. The Model 70... What to say! Pretty terrible. Their lever group finish pretty poor and only a bit better across the better part of two decades!

I've generally stuck to the older Winchesters, as many other brands. But SG's like the above, a definite lure!

Just my take!
Best!
John

Browning really wanted to make a show with their 2008 limited edition fwt. That was the best BACO in my honest opinion:

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]
After my gunsmith screwed an EW barrel on it. ^^^^

They were the sweetest BACO made. Many of us were so happy that the model 70 was being brought back, we didn't care by who. At first it was FN who was involved and that was a great thing, as most of us know FN was putting out some excellent chidt at that time, but mostly military contract stuff. My FN PBR XP was one of them. A highly fine tuned classic model 70, that FN was responsible for:
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]
The accuracy was insane and the function was second to none. One hell of a fine piece of equipment, much like the first BACO's to leave the factory. Those were the 2008 models. Guys like 79s say the Portuguese model 70's are better in every way, but not better than the first model 70's BACO produced. At that time, they were proud to be bringing the infamous model 70 back and they took more time to make them right.


Originally Posted by raybass
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style.

Originally Posted by Pharmseller
You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole.
P


BSA
Re: Portugal Featherweight Model 70’s Quality & Quality Control Superior ? [Re: bsa1917hunter] #16296111 07/30/21
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Originally Posted by bsa1917hunter
I'll get my popcorn.
I'll bring the butter.. laugh laugh

Quote
The pre64 style trigger always needs to be fine tuned as well. I like a crisp clean 2.5 pound pull and you cant get that with just an adjustment. As far as hunting rifles go, all of the model 70's are great. They all need to be properly glass bedded to achieve the best/most consistent accuracy. But once done right, you never have to worry about it again. Thats my take.
You're totally correct on all that...


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Re: Portugal Featherweight Model 70’s Quality & Quality Control Superior ? [Re: GAGoober] #16296681 07/30/21
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I have a new one in the pipeline. Had a choice between a FW SS .270 and a EW MB .308. They weigh nearly the same, but I have two .270s, and only one .308, so the EW won. Should come in at about 8lbs, scoped.

Gonna explore the mysteries of 130gr TTSXs in this one. Midway has them on sale.


What fresh Hell is this?
Re: Portugal Featherweight Model 70’s Quality & Quality Control Superior ? [Re: GAGoober] #16302156 08/01/21
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My FW in .308 is Portuguese. It's sub-MOA with Norma Whitetail 150 gr. I'm more than satisfied, even if the wood is a bit plain.

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

Re: Portugal Featherweight Model 70’s Quality & Quality Control Superior ? [Re: GAGoober] #16302297 08/01/21
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As the OP said, we are all entitled to our opinions and I'll get flamed for this, but I think the Portugese M70s are as good, or better, than any M70 Winchester ever turned out.


And while I'm at it the much heralded New Haven M70s of a few years ago gave us nothing but trouble at the LGS where I worked ( and we were a Winchester authorized repair center)

The BACO and Portugese guns are better.

Last edited by ingwe; 08/01/21.

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Re: Portugal Featherweight Model 70’s Quality & Quality Control Superior ? [Re: GAGoober] #16302658 08/01/21
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these model 70 discussions always attract we model 70 admirers' interest. The pictures of the pretty wood are enjoyable to see. we all like nice wood. but if you buy the "form FOLLOWS function" theory which I do, then the appearance and even accuracy to an extent, follow reliability. And for that reason, I'm in the pre-64 camp because predominantly of the actions. And a lot of that is based on my hunts in wilderness settings where reliability is really what you want more that anything else. So the one piece bolt and old trigger proven over decades of hard use are part of that reliability issue. I don't get excited about whether the rifle will shoot groups 1/2" less on calibers that I use mostly like .300 WM or .375 H&H. Even in the area of accuracy, I have found that a tuned pre-64, at least the ones I own, can be made to shoot really good, and some, like my .375, incredibly good. As a matter of fact, that .375 and my standard grade .270 shoot, or at least were easier to get shooting really good, than some of my re-barreled pre-64s. I keep going back to those few pre-64s that were used for decades in harsh conditions by some famous outfitters. They were factory guns that just worked, and worked and worked without failure. thats what I admire in a serious hunting rifle. because the new ones have only been on the scene for such a short period of time, in another 20-30 years we'll know if they have that same functional reliability.

Re: Portugal Featherweight Model 70’s Quality & Quality Control Superior ? [Re: GAGoober] #16302838 08/01/21
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Is there any indication they won't be? The "new" CRF M70 has been on the market for nearly 30 years. The M70s coming out of Portugal have been flowing for nearly 10. I haven't seen any indication of any inferiority to the pre 64s.

Re: Portugal Featherweight Model 70’s Quality & Quality Control Superior ? [Re: GAGoober] #16302932 08/01/21
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I love the 2008 BACO FN Deluxe limited edition. I think that the JOC Specials were just that. The best factory rifle probably made. They weren't done at a custom shop but they feel like it.

[Linked Image from i.ibb.co]

Last edited by kaboku68; 08/01/21.
Re: Portugal Featherweight Model 70’s Quality & Quality Control Superior ? [Re: bsa1917hunter] #16302951 08/01/21
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Originally Posted by bsa1917hunter
Originally Posted by iskra
Certainly nothing to be ashamed of in that beauty, Herr Glock! From the days of the Model 54, believe 1934 forward, the Wincher bolt rifles with essentially the stocks (such as cheekpieces/butt drop angle, checkering pattern excepted), much the same. Only a few of the very early nineties SG labeled models without such as the black forend tip & SG swivels something of a dip. Otherwise, seems the SG image largely sustained! My .338 Win from '93 has tiger striping & quite nice. My 338 Win vintage 1960 also a beauty, with the more traditional pre '64 cheekpiece. Happy for the few I own!

As far as Browning parent. I can't particularly comment beyond generalization. I do understand their main focus nowadays, armaments. On wider scale, so many of the old quality names are now in Chinese inventory. Some of them good/great products, too many others... Not. I tend not to identify by brands in many such instances. With Winchesters, the only truly dark period in early '64+ era with material 'hit' to the brand. The Model 70... What to say! Pretty terrible. Their lever group finish pretty poor and only a bit better across the better part of two decades!

I've generally stuck to the older Winchesters, as many other brands. But SG's like the above, a definite lure!

Just my take!
Best!
John

Browning really wanted to make a show with their 2008 limited edition fwt. That was the best BACO in my honest opinion:

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]
After my gunsmith screwed an EW barrel on it. ^^^^

They were the sweetest BACO made. Many of us were so happy that the model 70 was being brought back, we didn't care by who. At first it was FN who was involved and that was a great thing, as most of us know FN was putting out some excellent chidt at that time, but mostly military contract stuff. My FN PBR XP was one of them. A highly fine tuned classic model 70, that FN was responsible for:
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]
The accuracy was insane and the function was second to none. One hell of a fine piece of equipment, much like the first BACO's to leave the factory. Those were the 2008 models. Guys like 79s say the Portuguese model 70's are better in every way, but not better than the first model 70's BACO produced. At that time, they were proud to be bringing the infamous model 70 back and they took more time to make them right.


I own 1 BACO made model 70 and it’s a South Carolina made rifle, the early ones still used leftover parts from new Haven I think the first ones like you had all still had Williams bottom metal. The FN plant is South Carolina was never intended to build sporting rifles. It’s purpose is to provide weapons to the military. The 240B along with m16 and m4 are made there. Also baco has control over the stocks since the stock making operation for BACO is located In Portugal. Anyhow enough of that. I consider some of the best made model 70’s besides pre64’s are the 5 digit classics now you talk about fit and finish.


Originally Posted by Bricktop
Then STFU. The rest of your statement is superflous bullshit with no real bearing on this discussion other than to massage your own ego.
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