|
|
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 48,020
Campfire 'Bwana
|
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 48,020 |
I have only killed elk with three diffeernt cartridges and since they worked fine, I will list them.
1. .308 Win -150 and 165 gr cup and core, If I were to use it now it would be with 150 gr NPT or TTSX's.
2. .30-06 180 Nosler Partitions. I suppose I should try some 200 gr Noslers but have no real reason too.
3. .338 Win Mag 225 gr TBBC HE (yes, I still have some)
I have a 7x61 and some .300 magnums plus a .35 Whelen. I sometimes carry those when hunting spike only 3% hunts. I don't pull a branch bull tag very often though so when I do, I stick with the first three.. Great choices dancing bear. Ive used 30-06, 300 mags, 338wm (with 250gr and 225gr pills), 9.3x62mm with 286gr partitions. The 338wm and 30-06 are still my favorites. Ive seen many other elk killed by various other cartridges like 30-30, 270win and 308 win. All have worked very well when hit in the boiler room. Im wanting to try my 7mm08 this year. Probably with some ttsx bullets.
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style. You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole. BSA MAGA
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,080
Campfire Kahuna
|
Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,080 |
...if you get some of the private land tags available here in Colorado, a .257 Roberts is more than sufficient for shooting a cow off the ranchers alfalfa field, I just don't suggest if for more challenging conditions. Most guys who hunt wild public lands will tell you a .270 Winchester with a 150gr Nosler Partition is about the minimum for such conditions, with the edge going to something in the 300 to 375 WM range. The cow Eileen killed with a .257 was taken on a damage hunt on a local ranch, because the local herd was coming off of public land to raid alfalfa fields at night. But they only came out at night--and though we were the only people hunting during the period, there had already been 3 hunters ahead of us. That's the way the Montana department often arranges damage hunts: One hunter gets to hunt the place until killing an elk, then the next person on the list gets called. Consequently by the time Eileen got called it resembled hunting public land more than private. It took us 4 days to get her a shot during legal light, because they were on public land most of the day--where her hunt wasn't legal. Only near dark did they start filtering down toward the fields. On the 4th evening it finally came together. We found the narrow draw through thick timber they were using, and managed to get within about 100 yards of a cow that stood quartering away uphill on the far side of the draw, There wasn't time to wait for the "ideal" broadside shot, so Eileen aimed for the far shoulder. I expected the elk to go 30-50 yards before keeling over, but instead it dropped right there, flopped its head a couple times, and lay still. It turned out this was because the 100 TTSX cracked the bottom of the spine on its way to the shoulder--where we found it under the hide, close to 3 feet of penetration. In fact, it was a LOT like most of the public-land elk hunting we do. Five years later she killed a huge old cow--as big as many mature bulls--in a cattle pasture on another damage hunt. But that time she used her "big rifle," a custom lightweight .308 with the 130-grain TTSX handloaded to around 2900 fps. This time the cow quartered toward us at around 250 yards, and Eileen put the bullet just above of the big shoulder knuckle. That cow did manage to go about 20-25 yards before falling, but it was obviously dead on its feet. The bullet broke the thick leg bone and, again, angled through both lungs before ending up under the hide in the middle of the far ribs. John, Thanks for sharing that story. The image of Eileen piling up that cow with a CNS shot put a smile to on my face. It put a smile on my face as well! Even though the marginal CNS shot was only a by-product of the elk's posture. It was 10 at night before we got the cow out. After we did the basics, I hiked out about a mile uphill to get our Neet-Kart while Eileen kept working on the elk. It took two trips, and when I came back for the second half it was getting pretty dim, and I was starting to think about the local grizzlies, since the breeze was blowing uphill into the typical damp draws where they hang out that time of year. But we managed, even though our average age at the time was 63. Am not particularly anxious about hunting in grizzly country, having done it so often in various places, including Montana, Alberta, British Columbia, Alaska and the Northwest and Nunavut Territories. But have learned that being over-prepared is better than under-prepared--partly from Phil Shoemaker. Had an interesting encounter with a BIG female brown bear with Phil when fishing with him in 2009. A nitwit tourist chased the sow down toward us from upstream, actually running after the bear and shouting at it to stand still, while wielding her point-and-shoot digital camera at the bear. The bear ended up running through the willows and alders next to the stream, and coming out about 15 feet from me and Phil. I actually got a couple photos--while Phil drew his handgun and bear spray. After a few seconds of stiff stand-off, the bear turned back into the brush.... However, Phil also remarked on the same trip, when we were hunting ptarmigan, that after Eileen flushed a brown bear in a nearby patch of alders, that she set a women's world record for the backwards 20-yard dash while carrying a 28-gauge!
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.”
John Steinbeck
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 19,179
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 19,179 |
Now that’s funny ^^^^^^^
Thnx
Jerry
jwall- *** 3100 guy***
A Flat Trajectory is Never a Handicap
Speed is Trajectory's Friend !!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 30,265
Campfire 'Bwana
|
|
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 30,265 |
After reading this and other sources, it looks like it may be time to blow the dust off of the '06. I think I will restock the original wood stock, maybe buy new trigger and put a scope on it.
A rifle chambered in 30-06 is "the everyman's elk rifle." It just doesn't really get better. I like the idea of using the rifle your dad bought you. Put it in lighter fiberglass and you've got all you need to know about an elk rifle.
“Perfection is Achieved Not When There Is Nothing More to Add, But When There Is Nothing Left to Take Away” Antoine de Saint-Exupery
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,471
Campfire Outfitter
|
|
OP
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,471 |
Thanks Brad. Yep, going full circle with the '06. When I got it, I remember thinking that this is the only rifle that I will ever need! As soon as I find out if I am definitely booked for the hunt, I will order a scope for it then it's range time. After that I will re stock it and start serious load development after I get some dies. I can't believe it is almost 50 years old. Last time it was hunted was a few years ago when my son and I hunted black bear with hounds. He killed a bear with it and it sure felt good to see it used again. He is in medical school now!
Faith and love of others knows no mileage nor bounds. That's simply the way it is.
dogzapper
After the game is over, the king and the pawn go into the same box.
Italian Proverb
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 4,373
Campfire Tracker
|
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 4,373 |
The TBBC bullets have been very impressive when I have used them. .308-165 gr, .30-06 180 gr HE and 225 gr HE.
They can be tough to find a rifle they work well in, When you do you can eat right up to the hole.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 4,669
Campfire Tracker
|
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 4,669 |
Thanks Brad. Yep, going full circle with the '06. When I got it, I remember thinking that this is the only rifle that I will ever need! As soon as I find out if I am definitely booked for the hunt, I will order a scope for it then it's range time. After that I will re stock it and start serious load development after I get some dies. I can't believe it is almost 50 years old. Last time it was hunted was a few years ago when my son and I hunted black bear with hounds. He killed a bear with it and it sure felt good to see it used again. He is in medical school now! I'm still using my Remington 700 in 30/06 that I bought new back in 71. It's killed every elk @ 30 with the exception of 1 that I killed with a 54 T/C Renegade. Use 180 grain bullets. It's hard to beat the factory Federal 180 grain Nolser Partition. No real reason to handload unless you want to.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,471
Campfire Outfitter
|
|
OP
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,471 |
Thanks bob, I think I have a box of those squirred away. I will see how they shoot
Faith and love of others knows no mileage nor bounds. That's simply the way it is.
dogzapper
After the game is over, the king and the pawn go into the same box.
Italian Proverb
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 7,530
Campfire Outfitter
|
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 7,530 |
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 2,180
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 2,180 |
I’ve used 270, 30-06 and 300wm, all of them worked just fine. If I were living in the lower 48 these days and focused on elk hunting, I’d take a 30-06 loaded with 180g accubonds behind a nice charge of rl17 going ~ 2800+ FPS.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2021
Posts: 1,961
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Jan 2021
Posts: 1,961 |
Nope, the closest I've come is NW Montana, in the steep, thick-timber country near the Idaho Panhandle. Don't know how it compares, but a 100-yard shot is pretty rare, and most are less than 50--often much less. This is where I'm at. I've got a 30-06 now I'd like to try and maybe the 200gr Partition would be a good fit for me. I've used a 308win lots in the past and 45-70 a few times. At those closer distances the 45-70 levergun may be the ultimate in handling and weve also had your bears show up at times over here. They're becoming more frequent.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 30,951
Campfire 'Bwana
|
|
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 30,951 |
...if you get some of the private land tags available here in Colorado, a .257 Roberts is more than sufficient for shooting a cow off the ranchers alfalfa field, I just don't suggest if for more challenging conditions. Most guys who hunt wild public lands will tell you a .270 Winchester with a 150gr Nosler Partition is about the minimum for such conditions, with the edge going to something in the 300 to 375 WM range. The cow Eileen killed with a .257 was taken on a damage hunt on a local ranch, because the local herd was coming off of public land to raid alfalfa fields at night. But they only came out at night--and though we were the only people hunting during the period, there had already been 3 hunters ahead of us. That's the way the Montana department often arranges damage hunts: One hunter gets to hunt the place until killing an elk, then the next person on the list gets called. Consequently by the time Eileen got called it resembled hunting public land more than private. It took us 4 days to get her a shot during legal light, because they were on public land most of the day--where her hunt wasn't legal. Only near dark did they start filtering down toward the fields. On the 4th evening it finally came together. We found the narrow draw through thick timber they were using, and managed to get within about 100 yards of a cow that stood quartering away uphill on the far side of the draw, There wasn't time to wait for the "ideal" broadside shot, so Eileen aimed for the far shoulder. I expected the elk to go 30-50 yards before keeling over, but instead it dropped right there, flopped its head a couple times, and lay still. It turned out this was because the 100 TTSX cracked the bottom of the spine on its way to the shoulder--where we found it under the hide, close to 3 feet of penetration. In fact, it was a LOT like most of the public-land elk hunting we do. Five years later she killed a huge old cow--as big as many mature bulls--in a cattle pasture on another damage hunt. But that time she used her "big rifle," a custom lightweight .308 with the 130-grain TTSX handloaded to around 2900 fps. This time the cow quartered toward us at around 250 yards, and Eileen put the bullet just above of the big shoulder knuckle. That cow did manage to go about 20-25 yards before falling, but it was obviously dead on its feet. The bullet broke the thick leg bone and, again, angled through both lungs before ending up under the hide in the middle of the far ribs. John, Thanks for sharing that story. The image of Eileen piling up that cow with a CNS shot put a smile to on my face. It put a smile on my face as well! Even though the marginal CNS shot was only a by-product of the elk's posture. It was 10 at night before we got the cow out. After we did the basics, I hiked out about a mile uphill to get our Neet-Kart while Eileen kept working on the elk. It took two trips, and when I came back for the second half it was getting pretty dim, and I was starting to think about the local grizzlies, since the breeze was blowing uphill into the typical damp draws where they hang out that time of year. But we managed, even though our average age at the time was 63. Am not particularly anxious about hunting in grizzly country, having done it so often in various places, including Montana, Alberta, British Columbia, Alaska and the Northwest and Nunavut Territories. But have learned that being over-prepared is better than under-prepared--partly from Phil Shoemaker. Had an interesting encounter with a BIG female brown bear with Phil when fishing with him in 2009. A nitwit tourist chased the sow down toward us from upstream, actually running after the bear and shouting at it to stand still, while wielding her point-and-shoot digital camera at the bear. The bear ended up running through the willows and alders next to the stream, and coming out about 15 feet from me and Phil. I actually got a couple photos--while Phil drew his handgun and bear spray. After a few seconds of stiff stand-off, the bear turned back into the brush.... However, Phil also remarked on the same trip, when we were hunting ptarmigan, that after Eileen flushed a brown bear in a nearby patch of alders, that she set a women's world record for the backwards 20-yard dash while carrying a 28-gauge! That's again John. That the perfect story to start the morning!
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 3,428
Campfire Tracker
|
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 3,428 |
When I turned 18, my Dad said that he would buy me any center fire rifle I wanted (within reason, meaning Winchester, Remington, Ruger, etc.) to hunt with. Up to that point, I'd been borrowing rifles from him to use. Keep in mind that this was a loooong time ago (about 1984). I asked him what caliber he would get. He told me he would go with either the 30-06 or the 7mm Rem. Mag. He said ammo would always be available for either and they would both have adequate power for elk. My Uncle, who was an enthusiastic hunter, had a Rem. 721 in 30-06 and was always regaling me with stories of his "mythical" 30-06. So, because ammo was cheap for the -06 and I couldn't see anything not to like about it, I went with the M70 in 30-06.
I probably killed a half dozen elk with that rifle, but after one elk ran off about 50 yards after I shot him with the 06 and 180 gr. bullet before dying, I decided I needed a bigger hammer and bought a .338 Win. Mag. I do like the .338 and it has been very good for me, killing quite a few elk, among other animals. But what I soon realized was that elk don't usually drop to the shot unless you hit them in the brain or spine, and they surely didn't drop to the shot with the .338 most times. However, it killed them just as dead as the -06 did. So...long story to say that I realized back then that the 30-06 is hard to beat and has plenty of oomph to kill any elk there is. 180 gr. bullets are more than adequate. You don't need a wonder cartridge to kill an elk, even the biggest elk. However, if you're a rifle loony like me, you'll always be trying something new, but you don't need to.
And, just to add to MD's post about the outfitter needing a .375 to finish off the gut-shot elk shot by clients with new .338 rifles. MD is exactly right and I've seen it myself with many friends over the years. The .300 magnums and above take a bit to get used to and many develop a flinch because of it. Not to say that they aren't good cartridges and that you can't learn to shoot them well. It's just that if you have no real need for a larger cartridge other than your once in a lifetime elk hunt out west, you'll be better off using your deer rifle in almost all instances. Personally, I'd stay with the 7-08 or 7x57 as the smallest cartridge to use for elk hunting, but I know there are many others that have used smaller cartridges on elk with good success. If you need to buy a bigger rifle for your elk hunt, the 30-06 would be a great way to go.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 4,373
Campfire Tracker
|
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 4,373 |
When I turned 18, my Dad said that he would buy me any center fire rifle I wanted (within reason, meaning Winchester, Remington, Ruger, etc.) to hunt with. Up to that point, I'd been borrowing rifles from him to use. Keep in mind that this was a loooong time ago (about 1984). I asked him what caliber he would get. He told me he would go with either the 30-06 or the 7mm Rem. Mag. He said ammo would always be available for either and they would both have adequate power for elk. My Uncle, who was an enthusiastic hunter, had a Rem. 721 in 30-06 and was always regaling me with stories of his "mythical" 30-06. So, because ammo was cheap for the -06 and I couldn't see anything not to like about it, I went with the M70 in 30-06.
I probably killed a half dozen elk with that rifle, but after one elk ran off about 50 yards after I shot him with the 06 and 180 gr. bullet before dying, I decided I needed a bigger hammer and bought a .338 Win. Mag. I do like the .338 and it has been very good for me, killing quite a few elk, among other animals. But what I soon realized was that elk don't usually drop to the shot unless you hit them in the brain or spine, and they surely didn't drop to the shot with the .338 most times. However, it killed them just as dead as the -06 did. So...long story to say that I realized back then that the 30-06 is hard to beat and has plenty of oomph to kill any elk there is. 180 gr. bullets are more than adequate. You don't need a wonder cartridge to kill an elk, even the biggest elk. However, if you're a rifle loony like me, you'll always be trying something new, but you don't need to.
And, just to add to MD's post about the outfitter needing a .375 to finish off the gut-shot elk shot by clients with new .338 rifles. MD is exactly right and I've seen it myself with many friends over the years. The .300 magnums and above take a bit to get used to and many develop a flinch because of it. Not to say that they aren't good cartridges and that you can't learn to shoot them well. It's just that if you have no real need for a larger cartridge other than your once in a lifetime elk hunt out west, you'll be better off using your deer rifle in almost all instances. Personally, I'd stay with the 7-08 or 7x57 as the smallest cartridge to use for elk hunting, but I know there are many others that have used smaller cartridges on elk with good success. If you need to buy a bigger rifle for your elk hunt, the 30-06 would be a great way to go. A lot like me. I had killed a few elk and .308's and '06's had worked fine. When I put three rounds in the front shoulder of a huge cow she just stood ther. She never took a step and as I prepared shot number 4 she keeled over. I decided I needed something bigger and arrived at a .338 Win Mag. While I believe I can see more reaction to a hit, the elk seem to go just as far or take a bit to fall. I like the .338 but only pack it when I pull a branch bull tag these days. I do find it a lot easier on me as far as recoil than a .300 Mag. Very similar to a warmly loaded .35 Whelen.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 4,081
Campfire Tracker
|
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 4,081 |
"There are no dangerous weapons. There are only dangerous men." - Robert Heinlein
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 17,260
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 17,260 |
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2020
Posts: 130
Campfire Member
|
|
Campfire Member
Joined: Feb 2020
Posts: 130 |
.318 WR w/ 250 gr. Woodleigh softs.
8mm/06 w/ 200 gr. NPT's
.280 Rem.w/ 175 gr. Swift A-frames All have worked well for me on large game, have not got around to an Elk hunt.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 2,534
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 2,534 |
I can't add much because I have only killed two with the same 7x57 with the same batch of ammo my father loaded in the 90s. a 150 gr core lokt both dead pretty quickly. seen one take a 175 gr hornady from a 7mm mashburn that dropped like a lightning strike at 450 yds but I believe the high shoulder spine hit was the determining factor.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 7,126
Campfire Tracker
|
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 7,126 |
After reading this and other sources, it looks like it may be time to blow the dust off of the '06. I think I will restock the original wood stock, maybe buy new trigger and put a scope on it.
Let me suggest a "TriggerTech" trigger for pure pleasure. Happy Hunting
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 140
Campfire Member
|
|
Campfire Member
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 140 |
308 Win with 180 grain Nosler Partition
8x57 JS (8mm Mauser) with 200 grain Nosler Partition
7x57 with 160 grain Nosler Partition
|
|
|
|
|
569 members (007FJ, 10gaugemag, 1lesfox, 160user, 222Sako, 1Longbow, 56 invisible),
2,589
guests, and
1,246
robots. |
|
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
|
Forums81
Topics1,191,362
Posts18,469,005
Members73,931
| |
Most Online11,491
Jul 7th, 2023
|
|
|
|
