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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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Before I considered paying 1200 for a Springfield I'd give Dan Wesson a look. Might be a couple hundred more depending on the model you choose but I think you would end up with a much better 1911. I'd even look at the used market if I had too. A new model Colt wouldn't even be considered. Unless
of course you needed it to double as a baby rattle. Bill Wilson made me a couple "baby Rattles". They shoot great. I often laugh at people at gun shops that rattle 1911's. Then they talk. Even more funny. Cool story......I've got one of those too......and it in fact does NOT rattle. Tight as a drum, as are my Dan Wessons, and my buddies Ed Brown. Shoot, my Glock doesn't even rattle. News for you though....Bill Wilson didn't make it for you.....probably never even laid eyes on the pistol or cares who you are lol. Might wanna get those looked at sweetheart. Im glad you can parrot Bill Wilson, you have a good memory.....I do too. I've watched his videos along with Vickers and Hackathorn and have heard all about the "slide to frame fit doesn't mean a thing" Maybe it doesn't , maybe it does and maybe not to you but it does to me. When I can buy a gun that doesn't rattle......well, that's the one I'm gonna buy. Sounds like you drank the kool-aid😂. You gonna let the Mercedes or Porsche rep salesman tell you not to worry about the rattle in the engine bay, the car is still fast? 😂😂😂 What's sad to me is people base a guess worth on accuracy alone. By that logic we should all be shooting Savage rifles. Every single Colt that I have ever picked up has had pretty bad fit and finish, was a rattle trap, had very mushy safeties, and pretty crude triggers including the last one I looked at which was a commander elite for 1400$. Again, that's Dan Wesson territory. No way in this world would I pay that when I get get better quality for the same money elsewhere. ![[Linked Image from i.ibb.co]](https://i.ibb.co/QfKQnMC/50263-DB9-DB11-4-E66-9-F10-59-C23-B3-BE995.jpg) Oh and here's the latest "rattle trap" it looks nice, but the gleaming qualities of the pistol stop right there. ![[Linked Image from i.ibb.co]](https://i.ibb.co/hBjK5XN/75-C9-D080-7-A84-456-C-9491-75-C8-B52719-BF.png) See what I mean. He's talking and I'm laughing. Ha! Rattle on brother! They are both good guns. Contain your hate. PS: I do like your fishing pictures of bass and Muskie. You can't be all bad. There's no hate. Only the obvious. I like my Colt AR15, so I'm not anti colt......but thats about it. Maybe CZ will clean up the 1911s for them. Couldn't possibly be any worse. Never one time said a colt "wouldn't run" never one time said a colt "wouldn't shoot". I simply said they rattle more than any other 1911 I've used, the controls are mushy, and the fit and finish sucks. And that isn't opinion. That's a fact. But keep worshiping the little pony rollmark.......it's cute.
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Joined: Aug 2011
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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I’ll say this much, my two recent-production Colts aren’t nearly as tight as my Dan Wesson. In regards to finish, there’s no comparison. The roll marks on the Colts are rough enough to snag fibers.
The issue is...the Colts run flawlessly and have yet to choke on any ammo I run through them. The Dan Wesson has been a serious work in progress to get it to run reliably. Small sample size though. Sorry to hear that your DW has been a little problematic. Which model do you have? My pair has been flawless since day one. I carry the CCO in 45ACP almost daily. I'm not sure how many rounds are through it at this point, maybe 1500-2000. It has choked exactly 3x in that time. It wasn't during the 500 round break in period either, somewhere around the 800-1000 mark. It choked 3x in a row with Winchester Whitebox 230g ball. But, the same rounds also choked in a Glock and had very low reports. So I'm not blaming the gun on that one. Everything has been 100% reliable. 230ball of various brands, 230g JHP and 200g JHP.
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Joined: Sep 2013
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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It's the center line parts that mater. Barrel muzzle to slide fit. Barrel lugs to slide fit. Breech face to barrel fit. All move with the slide all together. The firing pin goes straight forward. Both front and rear sights are on the slide. The hammer (on the frame) goes forward. When the slide moves, they all move together.
That little pony comes in handy if and when you sell them more than any other brand. But who would ever want to sell their Colt. Ha!
Gun Shows are almost as comical as boat ramps in the Spring.
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Joined: Sep 2006
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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So if loose slides don't matter, why do all civilian & military armorer's tighten the fit?....................& don't try to BS me with saying that they don't; I've been in the BE business for way to long with way to much exposure to way to many armorer's to know that they do.
MM
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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So if loose slides don't matter, why do all civilian & military armorer's tighten the fit?....................& don't try to BS me with saying that they don't; I've been in the BE business for way to long with way to much exposure to way to many armorer's to know that they do.
MM Is it really necessary? My Smith doesn't think it necessarily thinks it is. The barrel fit and lockup to slide is much more important in his opinion.
I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Sure, w/o a doubt, the barrel fit & lockup, bushing fit to the slide & to the barrel & barrel quality are probably most important, but if the slide to frame fit doesn't matter, why is it done by virtually every competent GS that builds a BE gun or other "high quality" custom gun? Or higher end production guns, like DW, for example?
MM
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Joined: Dec 2005
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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If you want Springfield, the Ronin looks like a nice choice
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 13,545
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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Sure, w/o a doubt, the barrel fit & lockup, bushing fit to the slide & to the barrel & barrel quality are probably most important, but if the slide to frame fit doesn't matter, why is it done by virtually every competent GS that builds a BE gun or other "high quality" custom gun? Or higher end production guns, like DW, for example?
MM As you said, other items are more important, but the "why" fit the slide to frame is an interesting question. Maybe the best answer is considering the diminishing returns on money spent, if slide to frame fit contributes 10% that's a big chunk and I want my gunsmith to go after it. Also a well-fit pistol will last longer, and there's the matter of gunsmith professionalism - it the fit anywhere can be improved just do it. Melted Bo-Mars don't add to function of a pistol, but fit them properly anyway. You mention BE gun's, if the Ransom Rest is still the standard of accuracy of BE then slide to frame fit plays a huge roll. Ransom Rest groups can sell pistols. Also, there are plenty of gun owners that can't judge barrel fit, but become an expert if the pistol rattles.
Forgive me my nonsense, as I also forgive the nonsense of those that think they talk sense.
Robert Frost
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Joined: Sep 2006
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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JOG...............how are you doing, dude?
I was just playing devil's advocate for the sake of conversation & something to do.
Of course it matters & all the top level armorers & gun-builders worth talking about wouldn't do it if it didn't, & if I want a top level gun, I want it too.
Mostly only the wannabes or ones that don't know & don't have fitted guns tend to say it doesn't matter.
How much it might matter, might be discussed, but really not that it doesn't matter.................but we have a lot of "experts" here, too...................just saying.
Obviously, just a fitted slide / frame doesn't, of itself, make a gun accurate w/o the other factors too, but in the end, it's a system with multiple impact factors.
After awhile, a mouthful of schitt on here gets to be a little hard to swallow.
MM
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Apr 2005
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JOG...............how are you doing, dude?
I was just playing devil's advocate for the sake of conversation & something to do.
Of course it matters & all the top level armorers & gun-builders worth talking about wouldn't do it if it didn't, & if I want a top level gun, I want it too.
Mostly only the wannabes or ones that don't know & don't have fitted guns tend to say it doesn't matter.
How much it might matter, might be discussed, but really not that it doesn't matter.................but we have a lot of "experts" here, too...................just saying.
Obviously, just a fitted slide / frame doesn't, of itself, make a gun accurate w/o the other factors too, but in the end, it's a system with multiple impact factors.
After awhile, a mouthful of schitt on here gets to be a little hard to swallow.
MM
I saw my Smith fit a Storm Lake barrel to an Auto Ordance 1911 with proper barrel to slide fit. The slide to frame fit rattled yet that gun shot as good as my Les Baer I like a good slide to frame fit but it is far from necessary for good accuracy
I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
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Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 12,518
Campfire Outfitter
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Frame/slide fit sells stuff, it is all about PERCEPTION, if a rattling slide bothers you, you will not accept that it will still shoot well. Maybe, maybe not. I have not seen it in my 40+ years of 1911 shpoting, though.
You can roll a turd in peanuts, dip it in chocolate, and it still ain't no damn Baby Ruth.
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Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 3,681
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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For about the 5th time, no one not once in this thread ever said a rattling 1911 wouldn't shoot accurately. Only stated that it was a huge annoyance when other manufactures have figured out how to not make it rattle.
I can accept that a colt may turn in tight groups. But I don't care.
Savage does too, but I won't own one.
Ymmv
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 131,449
Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 131,449 |
I like Springfield 1911s. I have a stainless Mil Spec (with Trijicon HD night sights) and a TRP with Armory Kote. The night sights on the TRP have been essentially dead for a while and need replacing. I bought it in the late 1990s.
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Joined: Aug 2003
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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JOG...............how are you doing, dude?
I'm doing great, MM. I hope your are as well. As you know, slide to frame fit should be related to precision - not accuracy. Arguing otherwise is debating the merits of a football bat.
Forgive me my nonsense, as I also forgive the nonsense of those that think they talk sense.
Robert Frost
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Joined: Nov 2019
Posts: 3,591
Campfire Tracker
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I’ll say this much, my two recent-production Colts aren’t nearly as tight as my Dan Wesson. In regards to finish, there’s no comparison. The roll marks on the Colts are rough enough to snag fibers.
The issue is...the Colts run flawlessly and have yet to choke on any ammo I run through them. The Dan Wesson has been a serious work in progress to get it to run reliably. Small sample size though. Sorry to hear that your DW has been a little problematic. Which model do you have? My pair has been flawless since day one. I carry the CCO in 45ACP almost daily. I'm not sure how many rounds are through it at this point, maybe 1500-2000. It has choked exactly 3x in that time. It wasn't during the 500 round break in period either, somewhere around the 800-1000 mark. It choked 3x in a row with Winchester Whitebox 230g ball. But, the same rounds also choked in a Glock and had very low reports. So I'm not blaming the gun on that one. Everything has been 100% reliable. 230ball of various brands, 230g JHP and 200g JHP. I have a Guardian in 45 ACP. It’s had issues with the slide not locking to the rear, no matter what magazines I use. I feel like the spring for the slide stop/safety might be a bit stiff. It’s also had some issues with not going into battery. At first I thought I might have a slide velocity issue, but ejection is strong and consistent. Been using a mixture of Federal 230gr fmj, Remington 230gr JHP, Sig 200gr V-Crown, and PMC 230gr fmj.
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