Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters Rusty Powder? IMR 4198

WAY TO GO SWIFTY! Thanks for this. Now we know!

After reading these posts, I called and talked to a tech at Alliant about this gray dust and bad powder. He mentioned four ways to tell:1] smell, 2] visual, 3] spread some on a white sheet of paper and move around with finger. If reddish or brown, going bad. If grayish/blackish, it's the graphite is what you see, good. 4] take that powder on the paper outside and ignite. If it burns evenly and is yellow/orange, good. If it sputter burns and isn't a smooth burn, bad. Failure on any one of those four, toss it.

Your the one who asked a dumb question.

rifletomm Thanks for making that affirming contact and reporting the "four ways to tell" bad powder. Good job!

"By the mouth of two or three witnesses every word shall be established"

My IMR-4350 passed all 4 of the above test. Too much graphite as I first suspected and I'm glad because it was going to hurt pouring out almost a full pound. I've powder that's gone bad before and it's always been a red dust but, last year I had three quarter pound of H-4831 that I was going to load. When I unscrewed the cap, it looked like orange flour in the can but, under that was the powder kernels. I promptly carried it outside, poured it on the ground, and lit it so I know exactly how it sputters.

Have only seen this in powder packaged in metal containers. Haven't seen it when packaged in plastic containers, has anyone else?

Can't say as I have. Just older metal ones. And only two since '77.

Good to know. Thanks for posting because I too was reluctant to pour a pound of powder on the ground. I actually loaded up a few trial shells with it in my .222 shot them and could tell zero difference between that and 'fresh' powder.

Thanks!

Same here, rusting of the can.


I'm no chemist, but the container plays a big role IMO.

bushrat;
Good afternoon to you sir, I hope you're all well up north and it's not quite as smoky for you folks either.

I have had IMR4198, IMR4831 and a bulk powder from Higginson in Ontario which I bought as VV N160 go off on me.

The VV N160 was in a plastic jug - I had 8lb of it and about 6lb went off.

When I checked on rounds loaded with it, it had caked inside the cases and cracked several of the cases off at the shoulder - as in sitting in the MTM boxes - the case necks got brittle and fell off. The bullets were the only salvageable thing from that mess and they were quite caked with verdigris on the bases. It really hurt me because I had to chuck a couple hundred unfired but loaded 6.5x55 cases and about 50 .308 Norma cases that I'd just fire formed from .338 Win Mag. I was a sad camper that day, but happy to have found it before it burned the house down.

The plastic jug was warm to the touch when I discovered it. I was nonplussed to say the very least as it was sitting with a fair bit of other powder.

The IMR4831 was a fresh can, but still a metal one if memory serves. It was just rusty and smelled off.

The IMR4198 was an older can by the price on it, was half gone when someone gave it to me and again was rusty and didn't have that nice "fresh powder" smell to it.

On the other end of life, I still have half a pound of WWII surplus H4831 that is useable, but a has lost a wee bit of weight. When one weighs the same volume of it along with a like volume of fresher H4831, it was a tad lighter so would be a tad hotter I'm thinking.

Anyways, hope that helped someone out there and was useful.

Dwayne

Rust dust means bad powder. DO NOT use it for loading. Fertilizer has been mentioned and that is a good use for it.

Good Morning Sir:

You said above ^^^
"The plastic jug was warm to the touch when I discovered it. I was nonplussed to say the very least as it was sitting with a fair bit of other powder."

I hope you have a great day - even tho you have complicated mine

Now I need to go thru my stash and TOUCH each container, I have metal & plastic ones.

As I said earlier, I've had 2 one pounders go bad (red) but haven't ever felt a warm container.

Seriously -- thank you. BSTS
Better Safe Than Sorry


Jerry

Lawn.

If you have any ammo loaded with that powder I suggest to break it down.I ran into some powder that I had for a couple of years and I noticed it had been recalled.The powder worked great,but when it went bad,it went bad quick.It always seemed to have a little strong odor even when I first got it,but my groups where always great and the velocities were consistent.It was right about the time I saw the recall notice,I got a red dust cloud when I opened the lid.I also noticed some sweating on the outside of the container.I took it outside and dumped it as well as watering it down.I broke all the ammo down that I had loaded with the powder.It didn't look too bad,but I did notice the base of the bullets were starting to turn a little blueish green.A couple of months later I found three that I missed while I was at the range.I decided to just shoot them instead of taking them home and breaking them down.I fired one round and I had a hard bolt extraction.I looked at the headstamp on the base and it was smeared.I broke down the other two when I got home and the powder was damp and clumpy.Bad powder is nothing to mess with.In over fifty years,this was the first experience with bad powder.Here is a couple of photos of the two I broke down.

Exactly. I ran into an old can of imr 4350 last month that suffered from red dust disease. I told my boss it was bad, but he decided to buy it anyway. It was an easy pass for me. Lawn fertilizer at best

I just bought an old can of 4198 yesterday. I guess i better go and check it!!

Buy yourself a laser thermometer gun. They are handy for many uses.

Well, actually we already have one.
Hadn't thot about "shooting" powder cans with it.


Jerry

you might have a storage powder area problem also ?

A friend threw away some bad 4895 into a plastic garbage can some years ago. I went to visit him and noticed the can was all melted looking and asked him if he had got it too close to the barbeque? He didn't know what I was talking about so I showed him. We got the water hose, removed the lid, and put the fire out. The powder had under gone spontaneous combustion in the hot August heat. So it can/will happen!