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Originally Posted by Fury01
I’m betting it will feed sir. If it doesn’t a slight radius of the outer edge will fix it.

Sir Dennis,
You are referring to .458-400gr XTSX-1, of course.
Absolutely, a radius on the outer edge of the meplat would be desirable.
More than just breaking the sharpness off the edge, a full-blown bevel would work better.
Could be done by more vigorous application of the handtool used for that edge break,
one of of those oh-so-useful, thimble-like deburring tools used on the mouths of brass cartridge cases.
Copper is softer than brass !
Less drilling and chamfering inside the hollowpoint would be needed then to get it to 400 grains.

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

For the .458-400gr brass solid:
Shaped like a beer keg, with an FN nose and a symmetric/mirror image boat tail for base, with a hollow point hole in the base,
and a ballistic tip insert if used as an expanding bullet when the hollow-base FN solid is shot backwards.
Sound familiar ?

The slug used for 12ga From Hell could be a model for diameter reduction to .458-400gr brass FN solid.

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

The .458 Winchester Magnum sure is a sweet little deer cartridge.

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

Rob modified my cast-lead Darwin for his lathe-turned imitation Darwins.
My cast-lead Darwin translated to brass would weigh about 1100 grains as a .730-caliber with 1.375" BOL.
If the .730-caliber Darwin is reduced to .458" major diameter but remained 1.375" long, it would weigh about 430 grains if made of brass ?
Some fine tuning of the design is needed to get to exactly 400 grains.


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Yes Sir. Number 5 has been my pick of the Bubba litter from the start. Phil needs another washed up Whale and some of all these for testing. I think 5 would be a big bear smasher non parallel at all 458wm col’s.

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Originally Posted by Riflecrank
Originally Posted by beretzs
Do you think the 400-450 TSX will expand in whitetail deer RC?

Never thought about plunking one of them into a buck.


Sir Scotty,

Sure it will if it is going 1600 fps or greater.
At that impact speed it would be more likely to expand than the lighter .458-400gr X.
Sectional density drives degree of bullet expansion for any given impact velocity.
But not to worry, if it is a .458-450gr bullet, or a .458-400gr bullet, either one,
the deer will likely fall like this one did:

[Linked Image]

Probably less meat loss than happens with those rat calibers at high velocity.


Thanks RC. I wanna get the 458 out a little this year. Debating on sticking with the 250 Hornady Mono's or trying something larger. I would like to scoop up some of the 300 grain Barnes TTSX's if I ever catch them for sale. It'd just be for deer hunting this year, so I am pretty sure anything will work decent.


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Originally Posted by Riflecrank
Originally Posted by HunterShooter58
Gentleman,
I've truly been enjoying these posts!

I was thinking, that I'm out of Bear grease, and in need of some!
Thought this would be as good a place to post as any!
Not trying to de rail the post!

Any one have a little that they can spare?

If so you can P.M. me!

Thanks in advance,
Tony

Tony,

Welcome, and buy a donkey for your contribution to the Crusade for Truth.
If you are bucking for Knighthood, tell us about some .45-bore rifle related shooting you have done and you are in.
All things .45-bore-rifle-related are .458 Winchester Magnum related, starting with muzzleloaders and going forward.
As for the bear grease, sorry, I am all out too.
You wouldn't want any of the last one I shot, it smelled fishy.
Greasy red meat that tastes like fish is not my cup of tea either.

Sir Ron,
Thanks for the Intro! lol
Was able to hunt yrs. ago with an 1886 Winchester, mfg. in 1886, in the infamous 45-90, black powder cartridge, that I picked up from a very good friend, an old timer that I would take out and shoot this thing with, may he now rest in peace!
I was able bag a nice white tail at our hunt camp in PA.
A truly nice deer that my youngest son and I saw, just getting back to the Cabin, for lunch, merely enjoying time together, more so than the hunting part if you will!
He saw a couple does crossing the road in front of Camp about a couple hundred yards down, what we call the South line of our Property, and he asked Dad, I think that last one had Horns!
Only having a Buck tag, he asked how can we get a look at him, as to possibly getting him, if he was a buck. My youngest Son, home on leave,(Marine Corps Sniper), was up for any plan that I put together.
So knowing their patterns, I told him, that other Hunters probably pushed him out of the other section of Hard Timber Woods, and that they'll lay down in the Slashing s, in those bottoms, that they were heading to, and If he gave me a head start, I would post up at the Back side of that Ravine, covering the Valley, and clear across to the old Maple Sugar House, where the other set of Hardwood trees start, coming up out of that Valley, past the Corn field where they feed at night. I explained that they'd lay there all day if not Bothered, and feed on that Corn come evening! "Almost isn't fair" he said with a laugh!
So I put him in motion slowly, and Told him that When he saw me get to a certain point, to pick up his pace, and don't be too concerned about super sneaking, but don't scare them, as to get them flying, Carrying the Mail, the old Timers would Say! Sure enough I'm on stand and had my spots picked out, with the old Girl's open sights at about 110 yards, to about 125 yards at different openings in the tees across the valley up on the Ridge line, I first saw two Does, the smaller ones first, naturally, then a decent size Doe, and then, sure enough, with my Binoculars, a nice small 8 point, stopping and looking back, to see what was, following them, into there favorite, resting spot, for an afternoon snooze! lol
I put that Winchester Model 1886,45-90,(300 gr.) Black Powder Caliber Rifle, with open sight on him, and the picture was a little fuzzy in my eyes to some small brush, that was in front of him, but doing a little reconnaissance, before the deer arrived, I knew that I had two more shooting lanes, and the third opening, my last, was the Best, at that he started to spook, and turned to follow the others as I predicted, and I followed with my Rifle at the Ready, UP, BOUNCE, DOWN, BOUNCE , second opening, no, no , 3rd opening, BAM!
Down he went, here comes my Son, through the Valley, I'm racing down, my side of the Ravine, Can't see the Deer, my Son is now behind me, up the other side of the Ravine, towards the top of the Ridge, not knowing, if he's down, running, scrambling, or what!
We climb the gradual apposite Ravine, Valley, we call the First Gully, (given by the previous owner,Carl, that taught me a lot), up to the Ridge where I last Saw the deer tumble, and my son is sayin, did you get him, did you get him, more exited for me than I was for myself.
As we started to crest that Ridge, my son already knew to slow go, behind me, I saw the Buck, Still Kickin, so as I had my Rifle on him, you could still hear that death rattle in his Wind pipe, and then Done!
No more movement as we walked up on him. My Sniper Son said "DAD"!, "One Shot One Kill' ! lol!

Memories of a life time, for at that Time he just got home from Afghanistan, and Almost didn't come back Home! Like I said earlier, it wasn't really bout the Hunt!

We celebrated, as my oldest Son,who came off stand, the two very close Brothers, were celebrating with me!

Headin out to Buy a Donkey!
Tony


I Learned a long time ago to Separate My Want's from My Needs!

A man's Gotta Do What a Man's Gotta Do!

Know Thy Self!

TRUMP DID WIN!!!
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Sir Ron, Sir Scotty I don't see where a 458 bullets needs to expand to put a deer on the ground pronto



I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
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Originally Posted by jwp475

Sir Ron, Sir Scotty I don't see where a 458 bullets needs to expand to put a deer on the ground pronto


You're right John, but I used a WFN 405 a bit in the 45-70 and while they ran a bit, they bled real well and died pretty quick. 300's like the old Nosler and Speer seemed to dump them somewhat faster. It's semantics as I never had a problem with them dying and recovering but it ain't going to hurt my heart for them to be close to the impact area.. Or right on top of it. I shot a little cull buck a few years back with a 250 TTSX from my 375 Improved that started that bullet around 2900'ish. At the shot it sounded like I hit a rock it was such a thump, but that little bugger still made it 100 yards.

All fun though, I am looking forward to hunting the 458 a little.


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Originally Posted by HunterShooter58
Originally Posted by Riflecrank
Originally Posted by HunterShooter58
Gentleman,
I've truly been enjoying these posts!

I was thinking, that I'm out of Bear grease, and in need of some!
Thought this would be as good a place to post as any!
Not trying to de rail the post!

Any one have a little that they can spare?

If so you can P.M. me!

Thanks in advance,
Tony

Tony,

Welcome, and buy a donkey for your contribution to the Crusade for Truth.
If you are bucking for Knighthood, tell us about some .45-bore rifle related shooting you have done and you are in.
All things .45-bore-rifle-related are .458 Winchester Magnum related, starting with muzzleloaders and going forward.
As for the bear grease, sorry, I am all out too.
You wouldn't want any of the last one I shot, it smelled fishy.
Greasy red meat that tastes like fish is not my cup of tea either.

Sir Ron,
Thanks for the Intro! lol
Was able to hunt yrs. ago with an 1886 Winchester, mfg. in 1886, in the infamous 45-90, black powder cartridge, that I picked up from a very good friend, an old timer that I would take out and shoot this thing with, may he now rest in peace!
I was able bag a nice white tail at our hunt camp in PA.
A truly nice deer that my youngest son and I saw, just getting back to the Cabin, for lunch, merely enjoying time together, more so than the hunting part if you will!
He saw a couple does crossing the road in front of Camp about a couple hundred yards down, what we call the South line of our Property, and he asked Dad, I think that last one had Horns!
Only having a Buck tag, he asked how can we get a look at him, as to possibly getting him, if he was a buck. My youngest Son, home on leave,(Marine Corps Sniper), was up for any plan that I put together.
So knowing their patterns, I told him, that other Hunters probably pushed him out of the other section of Hard Timber Woods, and that they'll lay down in the Slashing s, in those bottoms, that they were heading to, and If he gave me a head start, I would post up at the Back side of that Ravine, covering the Valley, and clear across to the old Maple Sugar House, where the other set of Hardwood trees start, coming up out of that Valley, past the Corn field where they feed at night. I explained that they'd lay there all day if not Bothered, and feed on that Corn come evening! "Almost isn't fair" he said with a laugh!
So I put him in motion slowly, and Told him that When he saw me get to a certain point, to pick up his pace, and don't be too concerned about super sneaking, but don't scare them, as to get them flying, Carrying the Mail, the old Timers would Say! Sure enough I'm on stand and had my spots picked out, with the old Girl's open sights at about 110 yards, to about 125 yards at different openings in the tees across the valley up on the Ridge line, I first saw two Does, the smaller ones first, naturally, then a decent size Doe, and then, sure enough, with my Binoculars, a nice small 8 point, stopping and looking back, to see what was, following them, into there favorite, resting spot, for an afternoon snooze! lol
I put that Winchester Model 1886,45-90,(300 gr.) Black Powder Caliber Rifle, with open sight on him, and the picture was a little fuzzy in my eyes to some small brush, that was in front of him, but doing a little reconnaissance, before the deer arrived, I knew that I had two more shooting lanes, and the third opening, my last, was the Best, at that he started to spook, and turned to follow the others as I predicted, and I followed with my Rifle at the Ready, UP, BOUNCE, DOWN, BOUNCE , second opening, no, no , 3rd opening, BAM!
Down he went, here comes my Son, through the Valley, I'm racing down, my side of the Ravine, Can't see the Deer, my Son is now behind me, up the other side of the Ravine, towards the top of the Ridge, not knowing, if he's down, running, scrambling, or what!
We climb the gradual apposite Ravine, Valley, we call the First Gully, (given by the previous owner,Carl, that taught me a lot), up to the Ridge where I last Saw the deer tumble, and my son is sayin, did you get him, did you get him, more exited for me than I was for myself.
As we started to crest that Ridge, my son already knew to slow go, behind me, I saw the Buck, Still Kickin, so as I had my Rifle on him, you could still hear that death rattle in his Wind pipe, and then Done!
No more movement as we walked up on him. My Sniper Son said "DAD"!, "One Shot One Kill' ! lol!

Memories of a life time, for at that Time he just got home from Afghanistan, and Almost didn't come back Home! Like I said earlier, it wasn't really bout the Hunt!

We celebrated, as my oldest Son,who came off stand, the two very close Brothers, were celebrating with me!

Headin out to Buy a Donkey!
Tony










Tony, great account of the hunt, and an 1886 is too darned cool! Man, I have been part of similar hunts and hunting while home on leave was some of the best head clearing times there could have been.

Great story and even cool with the 1886!


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beretzs,
Glad that you enjoyed it.
Thank you for your service!

Never once did I, or do I, ask questions, that I might want to know answers too, but know better to ask,as a Father, so I just use restraint!
Kinda against my nature, butt, my oldest told me Dad, you really don't want to know!
Good enough for me, as I'm close with both, and there, even closer with there Mother, as I've always tried to teach them,"I'm alright, take care of your mother'!
As I try to while the Good Lord Put me on this Earth!

Yeah, we've created a lot of Memories, through hunting, as I always remember my oldest, sittin on a stump with me yrs. ago, when he was small, telling me how some kid a tschool was giving him a hard time, if it werne't for hunting he would have never takin the time to tell me, cuz we're moving to fast in life even when we try to slow down!
No cell phones back then so we were truly enjoying the Hunt! The people who don't hunt will never understand!
Tony


I Learned a long time ago to Separate My Want's from My Needs!

A man's Gotta Do What a Man's Gotta Do!

Know Thy Self!

TRUMP DID WIN!!!
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Anyone tried any of the Hammer Bullets in the 458, 45-70, 45-90?

Might have to order a box or two and monkey with them. They are available and so far, they’ve been really easy to get shooting Bullets.


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Sir Tony,
OK, you can sit in Saint Bagwell's empty chair until we get the Round Table switched out for the Square Table of greater than twelve chairs.
I am sure Saint Bagwell would highly approve of your original 1886 vintage 1886 Bagwelling of that buck.

Sir Scotty,

Great tip on the Hammer Bullets, I am looking at them:

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

Also, for those who neck the 50 BMG down to .458-cal, Hammer Bullets has just the ticket for King of 2-Mile:

".458 Cal-674g Target Hammer
In stock and ready to ship!
We have been working with Kirby Allen of Allen Precision Shooting to develop an extreme long range bullet for his 458 Maximus.
This is the 1st version that we settled on for his 1-12″ test rifle. He was able to run this 674g Target Hammer at 3220 fps from a 1-12″ twist 41″ Lilja barrel ..."
$90 for 25 bullets, cheaper than HYDROs !
The Shock Hammers at about $2 per bullet are a great bargain compared to HYDROs on this side of the pond.

https://hammerbullets.com/product/458-cal-674g-target-hammer/


Ron aka "Rip" for Riflecrank Internationale Permanente
NRA Life Benefactor and Beneficiary
.458 Winchester Magnum, Magnanimous in Victory
THE WALKING DEAD does so remind me of Democrap voters. Donkeypox.
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[Linked Image]


Ron aka "Rip" for Riflecrank Internationale Permanente
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.458 Winchester Magnum, Magnanimous in Victory
THE WALKING DEAD does so remind me of Democrap voters. Donkeypox.
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[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

Problem is that on this side of the pond those HYDRO bullets cost about $5 each when delivered in packs of 10 bullets,
before they became out of stock and no back order at Midway USA.
I got some 480-grainers from Huntingtons and no 400-grain HYDROs were available way back then, nor now.

It might be cheaper and easier in the long run to get a custom bullet made.
CEB used to do that before they got to the big time.



Ron aka "Rip" for Riflecrank Internationale Permanente
NRA Life Benefactor and Beneficiary
.458 Winchester Magnum, Magnanimous in Victory
THE WALKING DEAD does so remind me of Democrap voters. Donkeypox.
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That 447 Shock Hammer looks pretty mean RC. Might have to place an order for a box of them. That HP on the front has to open mighty quick I assume.


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Sir Scotty,
I am getting a couple of boxes of the .458-402gr Shock Hammer.
I could not resist this line at the Hammer Bullets web site:

"Military and First Responders: We appreciate your past and present service! Please use the coupon button below to apply a 10% discount.
This coupon is based on the honor system. Anyone using this discount that is not current or former military or first responder is a TURD!"

Shoot a Shock Hammer backwards and you have a a copper FN solid.
If the hollow base stays on the bullet to impact it will add CG-forward/dart stability to the shoulder stability and the shortness stability.
Now, if we could find a ballistic tip to fit in the hollow point, mere gyroscopic stability will have to do for the soft.


Ron aka "Rip" for Riflecrank Internationale Permanente
NRA Life Benefactor and Beneficiary
.458 Winchester Magnum, Magnanimous in Victory
THE WALKING DEAD does so remind me of Democrap voters. Donkeypox.
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If you read between the lines of the first post at this thread by Kirby Allen regarding his development of the .458 Maximus,
along with Hammer Bullets' development of the bullet to go with it ...

https://www.longrangehunting.com/threads/new-beast-from-allen-precision-shooting.218534/

I think you will discover that the secret of success with that cartridge is that it has a long throat.
He initially feared the throat would need to be shortened for use with existing, lighter .458-570gr VLD bullets from Lehigh Defense, etc.
He tried those lighter bullets while Hammer Bullets was revising the prototype 700-grainer.
Results were outstanding with the shorter and lighter bullets.
No shortening of throat was mentioned prior to when the 674-grainer was ready to perform super-duper style.
Let the Lottites wail and gnash their teeth.


Ron aka "Rip" for Riflecrank Internationale Permanente
NRA Life Benefactor and Beneficiary
.458 Winchester Magnum, Magnanimous in Victory
THE WALKING DEAD does so remind me of Democrap voters. Donkeypox.
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RC, yup, I’ve been trying to use more hammers since they are good to us vets.

I’ll read that article today. The 402 Hammers sound like they’re going to be fun.


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Was gong to verify express sight hits at 50 yards with the 450gr TSX running 2418 and 500gr TBSS at 2358 in the morning, then zero scope +3 at 100 with the TSX's and see where they land at 300, not expecting any more than 10-12 inches low at that range, bullet still packing in excess of 1850 fps, would easily open on a deer or in my case maybe a big Red Hartebeest for Wife.but, have to run by John Deere and pick up some tractor parts, maybe i can get to part of it before dark tomorrow evening.


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Chores never stop around the Gunner farm!

I’ve gotta get in on this. You all are having way too much fun. I’m looking at RC and what he does with the Hammers. I figure maybe I can cheat a little and copy what he has going on.


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LOL, modern day slave i am ; ] Get in that 458 and gas on it man, they're a full load of fun.


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Yup, doing chores makes the fun things more fun, eventually.
I hope to photograph the 402-gr Shock Hammer, posed like the other bullets on the Hammer Bullets site.
Then email the image to HB to remind them to get an image for that bullet.
A similar photo and measurements of Buffalo Bore's 400-gr TSX will be forthcoming too.
And if I ever re-barreled a .416 Barrett M99 or a .50 BMG Cobb 50BA to .458 Maximus
it would have a throat just like on the SAAMI .458 Winchester Magnum.


Ron aka "Rip" for Riflecrank Internationale Permanente
NRA Life Benefactor and Beneficiary
.458 Winchester Magnum, Magnanimous in Victory
THE WALKING DEAD does so remind me of Democrap voters. Donkeypox.
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