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Re: 356Winchester Loads??? [Re: Goat] #16132804 05/31/21
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I am shooting 180 speers and 42gr of 4198, I am at the lowest setting on my sights and am ten inches high at 50 yards! Tried my 400 yard gong and it is still a touch high, is this what they meant by 336 Extended Range? I am guessing I just need a taller front sight? It doesn't feel right with a scope on it.

BP-B2

Re: 356Winchester Loads??? [Re: Goat] #16132862 05/31/21
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I have hunted quite a bit with the .356 Winchester using two Big Bore Model 94’s.
For light deer and smaller pigs such as we see in West Texas don’t overlook the 200 grain RCBS gas check bullet. While intended for the .35 Remington the RCBS bullet fits the Winchester Model 94 throat and short leade very well.

With 200 grain JRN bullets Hodgdon 4198 is an excellent powder. H 41498 will deliver satisfying accuracy from the bench and excellent performance hunting. The bulk Remington and the Hornady round nose bullets give me the best results.
For lighter bodied deer the Sierra 200 grain bullet puts them on the ground quicker than the Speer 180 grain bullet in my experience.
From the 20” barrel Model 94 the 200 grain Remington , Hornady or Sierra bullets ahead of 37.0 grains of Hodgdon 4198 will deliver 2,225 fps and excellent performance on deer and pigs.
44.0 grains of Hodgdon 4895 will deliver the same velocity and accuracy in my rifles.

If you need more velocity Alliant Reloder 7 will deliver but the accuracy in my rifles is noticeably not as good as that delivered by Alliant Reloder 10x. 43.0 grains of of Alliant Reloder 10x is just about a maximum load with the Hornady bullet delivering 2,330 fps in my rifles, but it is good from 80 degrees to 32 degrees and, we may see both temperatures in the same week during deer season.

For highest velocities with the 200 grain bullets it is hard to best 49.0 grains of Winchester 748 giving 2,485 fps in my rifles.
44.0 grains of Alliant Reloder 10x will deliver 2,410 fps but the case is full and you need to seat the bullet in steps.
The Lee Factory crimp die helps here.
I am interested in other hunters experiences with different bullet weights in the .356 and .358 rifles. I find the 220 grain Speer to be too tough for our light frame deer. A mature buck running 160 pounds on the hoof and a Big buck running 180 pounds. Many more bucks will weigh 140 pounds before field dressing. The 220 grain Speer bullet was supposed to be intended for the .35 Remington I would like to hear about the size of exit wounds on cross body shots.
The 200 grain Sierra bullet has a light jacket. For cull does and spike bucks a broadside shot into the lungs above the heart with the Sierra bullet puts them down in their tracks quicker than any other bullet I have used.


Slim
Re: 356Winchester Loads??? [Re: william_iorg] #16133595 06/01/21
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Originally Posted by william_iorg


If you need more velocity Alliant Reloder 7 will deliver but the accuracy in my rifles is noticeably not as good as that delivered by Alliant Reloder 10x. 43.0 grains of of Alliant Reloder 10x is just about a maximum load with the Hornady bullet delivering 2,330 fps in my rifles, but it is good from 80 degrees to 32 degrees and, we may see both temperatures in the same week during deer season.



I got the opposite result in my .358 Win, which is pretty close to the .356 Win.

RL-7 was more accurate than RL-10, especially with lighter bullets.

I've read that some, like you, prefer RL-10.

X-Terminator is probably my fav all around .358 Win powder, including heavier bullets up to 225 gr. I don't use 250's, thinking they're more suited to the 35 Whelen and larger capacity cases. 250's are sorta slow in the .358 Win, although I know some like them.

DF

Last edited by Dirtfarmer; 06/01/21.
Re: 356Winchester Loads??? [Re: Goat] #16135543 06/02/21
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I have a bunch of WW 748 and waiting couple weeks for a pound of X-Terminator. I have some 200 grain Shock Hammers, 220 grain Speer flat nose and some 225 grain Nosler Partitions coming that will be made into a flat nose and I will figure out if neck tension and a Lee crimp die will suffice or if I need a cannular tool for a crimp groove.

Real curious as to how the Shock Hammers do compared to the Nosler Partition. If Nosler would just make a 220 grain flat nose or if Barnes would make a 200 to 210 grain X bullet I would be a happy shooter, doubt it will ever happen.

I put my Leupold 1.5-5x20 VX3 with the German #4 on the Big Bore tonight to get better results with my upcoming load development. I'm not much for scoping a Mod. 94, but the little Leupold is a good fit for it and will make those over 100 yard shots in fading light easier.

This will be my wife's rifle this year, I will be toting my Mod. 71 in .348 Ackey Improved.

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Re: 356Winchester Loads??? [Re: Goat] #16136239 06/02/21
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Don't be in a rush to order a cannelure tool. Give it at least a week. wink

Thanks, Dinny


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Re: 356Winchester Loads??? [Re: Goat] #16139509 06/03/21
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Thread needs a picture. I am a poor photographer.
Here is a picture of a line of modest power .35’s. .35 Remington, .356 Winchester 200gr, 356 Winchester 225gr experimental bullet, .356 Winchester 250gr, .358 Winchester, .35 WCF, .338 Federal.
Charles Newton wrote a three part article: The Ballistic Properties of Cartridges, for Outing magazine, June through August 1913, I think.
Newton suggested Winchester load a 200 grain bullet in the .35 WCF at the same pressure as the 250gr load.
The manufacturers keep trying…

.356 Winchester 200gr, 225gr, 250gr bullets
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

Last edited by william_iorg; 06/03/21.

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Re: 356Winchester Loads??? [Re: Goat] #16140280 06/03/21
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Helps to attach the intended picture
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]


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Re: 356Winchester Loads??? [Re: Goat] #16141448 06/04/21
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I had shot the 200 round noses into some jugs not too long ago at around 10 feet. Not ideal for actual performance in animals or bone like dry print, but it's what I had. It did show that the the Sierra appears to be the softest (as well as generally the most accurate). The Core Lokt looks to be the toughest followed by the Win Powerpoint then the Interlock. The Sierra and core were found in the same jug, but not together. All others were firmly together. The Hornady shed some lead as did the Powerpoint, but not like the Interlock did. Velocity was around 2450-2500 or so out of a 358 Win. I've shot all of these in my 356 as well. This is just one shot and not a larger sample of each, but figured it was worth putting up for others to see the results:

From L to R: Hornady Interlock, Sierra Pro Hunter, Remington Core-Lokt and Winchester Powerpoint
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

L to R: Sierra, Hornady, Winchester, Remington
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

L to R: Sierra, Hornady, Winchester, Remington
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

This one I hadn't shot the Winchester yet, but shows the core/jacket of the Sierra on the left, the lead pieces from the Hornady and the Core-Lokt on the right
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

And the Winchester Powerpoint, there was a smaller piece of lead with it but I'd lost it.
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

Re: 356Winchester Loads??? [Re: Goat] #16142558 06/04/21
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https://www.marlinowners.com/threads/35-remington-bullet-performance-part-ii-handloads.5328/
I am set on the Speer 180 jfp. Because I have a bunch. And PA deer aren't that big. But IF the Remington 200 RN Core-lokt ever bcomes available again, I might give them a try.

Last edited by WStrayer; 06/04/21.
Re: 356Winchester Loads??? [Re: Goat] #16168942 06/13/21
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Thank you, thank you, thank you! This is the real world stuff I was looking for and I truly appreciate it! I have two 35 Remingtons. One is a Marlin I've had nearly 30 years and I have CVA Scout single shot. Plus I have 2 358Winchesters and a 35 Whelen that I load for also. I am always looking to learn more about the wonderful .35 caliber rifles. I particularly enjoy hearing how different bullets work at the different velocities of these cartridges. Thanks again for all the input.

Goat


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But I'm not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant."
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Re: 356Winchester Loads??? [Re: Goat] #16169385 06/14/21
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I neglected to post this link earlier.
https://www.levergunscommunity.org/viewtopic.php?t=12770

Re: 356Winchester Loads??? [Re: WStrayer] #16180370 06/18/21
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Originally Posted by WStrayer
https://www.marlinowners.com/threads/35-remington-bullet-performance-part-ii-handloads.5328/
I am set on the Speer 180 jfp. Because I have a bunch. And PA deer aren't that big. But IF the Remington 200 RN Core-lokt ever bcomes available again, I might give them a try.


The 180 is a good bullet too, it's been very accurate for me in both my 35 Rem and 356 Win. The 200 Core Lokt is a great bullet. I haven't had the accuracy I've gotten from the others, but it is plenty accurate for hunting. Who knows if we'll ever see them as a component again, we can only hope.

Re: 356Winchester Loads??? [Re: Goat] #16180375 06/18/21
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M1Garand Offline
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Originally Posted by Goat
Thank you, thank you, thank you! This is the real world stuff I was looking for and I truly appreciate it! I have two 35 Remingtons. One is a Marlin I've had nearly 30 years and I have CVA Scout single shot. Plus I have 2 358Winchesters and a 35 Whelen that I load for also. I am always looking to learn more about the wonderful .35 caliber rifles. I particularly enjoy hearing how different bullets work at the different velocities of these cartridges. Thanks again for all the input.

Goat


The 35's have been a little bit of a rabbit hole for me, I really enjoy them. I don't have the Whelen...yet. I'm thinking of a 358 bolt action build too if I come across a deal on an M700 or M70 donor.

Re: 356Winchester Loads??? [Re: Goat] #16236876 07/08/21
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I love the 180 grain Speer. But wanted something a little heavier for an up coming Elk and Black bear hunt. I flattened the tips on the 225 Woodliegh RN. I’m getting 2335 fps with H4198. My 94BB is shooting 3/4” to 1-1/4” fgroups at 100 yards. The crimp groove is in the wrong place but a Lee crimping die solves that problem. So far nothing has walked away from them and they’ve all exited on deer and hogs.

Re: 356Winchester Loads??? [Re: M1Garand] #16272563 07/22/21
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Originally Posted by M1Garand
Ramshot Xterminator has worked well in my Win 94 BB with the 180 Speer and 200 Hornady RN. Ramshot had emailed me load data for it, I asked about TAC and was told Xterminator was already compressed and with TAC being slower, it would result in lower velocities:

Caliber: .356 Winchester
Barrel length: 24”
Powder: Ramshot- X-TERMINATOR®.
Bullet weight: 180 grains.
Start load: 43.6 grains (2400 – 2500 Ft/p/sec)
Maximum load: 48.5 grains (2675 - 2775 Ft/p/sec).LD ca 106%
Bullet weight: 200 grains.
Start load: 41.0 grains (2200 – 2300 Ft/p/sec)
Maximum load: 45.5 grains (2500 – 2600 Ft/p/sec) LD ca 105%.
Bullet weight: 220 grains.
Start load: 39.2 grains (2175 – 2275 Ft/p/sec)
Maximum load: 43.5 grains (2400 – 2500 Ft/p/sec) LD ca 104%.
Bullet weight: 250 grains.
Start load: 37.4 grains (2050 – 2125 Ft/p/sec)
Maximum load: 41.5 grains (2300 – 2375 Ft/p/sec) LD ca 103%.

Here is real world velocities I chrony'd out of mine (average) with Xterminator and a 20" barrel:

180 Speer FP
46.5 grains - 2452 fps
47.0 grains - 2490 fps
47.3 grains - 2493 fps - this load shot three shots touching at 50 yards and five at about 1.75" at 100; probably shoots better than I did that day.

200 Hornady RN
45.5 grains - 2402 fps

I shot this bullet with IMR4064 too since 've had good luck with it in the 358 Win. It shot well with 47-48 grains, but velocity was around 2260-2300. I'd still use it in the woods where shots are fairly close at deer.






Looks like I need to get some Ramshot Xterminator .
Good luck in this day/age.


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Re: 356Winchester Loads??? [Re: M1Garand] #16272631 07/22/21
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Originally Posted by M1Garand
Ramshot Xterminator has worked well in my Win 94 BB with the 180 Speer and 200 Hornady RN. Ramshot had emailed me load data for it, I asked about TAC and was told Xterminator was already compressed and with TAC being slower, it would result in lower velocities:

Caliber: .356 Winchester
Barrel length: 24”
Powder: Ramshot- X-TERMINATOR®.
Bullet weight: 180 grains.
Start load: 43.6 grains (2400 – 2500 Ft/p/sec)
Maximum load: 48.5 grains (2675 - 2775 Ft/p/sec).LD ca 106%
Bullet weight: 200 grains.
Start load: 41.0 grains (2200 – 2300 Ft/p/sec)
Maximum load: 45.5 grains (2500 – 2600 Ft/p/sec) LD ca 105%.
Bullet weight: 220 grains.
Start load: 39.2 grains (2175 – 2275 Ft/p/sec)
Maximum load: 43.5 grains (2400 – 2500 Ft/p/sec) LD ca 104%.
Bullet weight: 250 grains.
Start load: 37.4 grains (2050 – 2125 Ft/p/sec)
Maximum load: 41.5 grains (2300 – 2375 Ft/p/sec) LD ca 103%.

Here is real world velocities I chrony'd out of mine (average) with Xterminator and a 20" barrel:

180 Speer FP
46.5 grains - 2452 fps
47.0 grains - 2490 fps
47.3 grains - 2493 fps - this load shot three shots touching at 50 yards and five at about 1.75" at 100; probably shoots better than I did that day.

200 Hornady RN
45.5 grains - 2402 fps

I shot this bullet with IMR4064 too since 've had good luck with it in the 358 Win. It shot well with 47-48 grains, but velocity was around 2260-2300. I'd still use it in the woods where shots are fairly close at deer.





That's very interesting. I tried TAC in my .358 Win, but didn't get near the velocity reported. I wonder if X-Terminator will work in that. Also, have to try it in my .356.

Re: 356Winchester Loads??? [Re: Just a Hunter] #16273241 07/22/21
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Originally Posted by Just a Hunter
Originally Posted by M1Garand
Ramshot Xterminator has worked well in my Win 94 BB with the 180 Speer and 200 Hornady RN. Ramshot had emailed me load data for it, I asked about TAC and was told Xterminator was already compressed and with TAC being slower, it would result in lower velocities:

Caliber: .356 Winchester
Barrel length: 24”
Powder: Ramshot- X-TERMINATOR®.
Bullet weight: 180 grains.
Start load: 43.6 grains (2400 – 2500 Ft/p/sec)
Maximum load: 48.5 grains (2675 - 2775 Ft/p/sec).LD ca 106%
Bullet weight: 200 grains.
Start load: 41.0 grains (2200 – 2300 Ft/p/sec)
Maximum load: 45.5 grains (2500 – 2600 Ft/p/sec) LD ca 105%.
Bullet weight: 220 grains.
Start load: 39.2 grains (2175 – 2275 Ft/p/sec)
Maximum load: 43.5 grains (2400 – 2500 Ft/p/sec) LD ca 104%.
Bullet weight: 250 grains.
Start load: 37.4 grains (2050 – 2125 Ft/p/sec)
Maximum load: 41.5 grains (2300 – 2375 Ft/p/sec) LD ca 103%.

Here is real world velocities I chrony'd out of mine (average) with Xterminator and a 20" barrel:

180 Speer FP
46.5 grains - 2452 fps
47.0 grains - 2490 fps
47.3 grains - 2493 fps - this load shot three shots touching at 50 yards and five at about 1.75" at 100; probably shoots better than I did that day.

200 Hornady RN
45.5 grains - 2402 fps

I shot this bullet with IMR4064 too since 've had good luck with it in the 358 Win. It shot well with 47-48 grains, but velocity was around 2260-2300. I'd still use it in the woods where shots are fairly close at deer.





That's very interesting. I tried TAC in my .358 Win, but didn't get near the velocity reported. I wonder if X-Terminator will work in that. Also, have to try it in my .356.

X-Term is slightly faster than TAC, gives full power loads in my .358 Win. without compressed loads as with TAC. It my fav .358 powder.

Another good one is RL-7 with lighter bullets.

DF

Re: 356Winchester Loads??? [Re: Dirtfarmer] #16273308 07/22/21
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Thanks for the info

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