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Re: The great 458 Winchester. Everyone should own one at least once [Re: Riflecrank] #16267665 07/20/21
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gunner500 Offline
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Ya, here i sit, morning wasted, JD parts guy said my order must be on the afternoon delivery truck! crazy

You men are going to have fun going Hammer-Time with the Great 458 WM+ cool

BP-B2

Re: The great 458 Winchester. Everyone should own one at least once [Re: MikeMcGuire] #16269743 07/20/21
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Sir Jerry,
I am learning how to convert image files in case you let something unusual come over the cellphone.
Looking forward to seeing how your rifle does at 50 yards with both of those bullets when the pointy one is about 2.5" to 3" high at 100 yards.

I have the Buffalo Bore .458-400gr ammo in hand, arrived today, 6 days after it was ordered,
will dissect it and shoot it over a chronograph.

But first, Bubba got lucky with his first try in shortening a .458-500gr Barnes Banded Solid to 400 grains:

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]


Ron

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Re: The great 458 Winchester. Everyone should own one at least once [Re: MikeMcGuire] #16269751 07/20/21
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Preliminaries on the Buffalo Bore ammo, speedy delivery,
and probably best quality "factory" ammo available,
priced well too, considering all that:

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

The 400-grain TSX is third from bottom above.
The nose projection is a wee bit shorter than that on the 450gr and 500gr TSX.
The COL of the two rounds I pulled apart was 3.310", identical for both.
The brass cases are Hornady and they measured 2.492" and 2.493".
The Barnes bullets weighed 400.3 grains and 399.1 grains.
Bullet Overall Lengths: 1.390" and 1.388".
Call it a 400-grainer that is 1.39" long.
The two powder charges weighed: 75.3 grains and 75.4 grains.
Call that a charge of less than or equal to 76.0 grains of what looks like AA-2230.
That is the median charge in the Western Powders manual for the old Barnes Original .458-400gr SSSP bullet at 3.140" COL:
72.0 grains >>> 2162 fps
80.0 grains (compressed) >>> 2457 fps <<< 53,690 PSI
24" barrel velocities: Interpolating for 75.35 grains gives 2286 fps.
Buffalo Bore's claim is for 2250 fps with the 400-gr TSX.
That will make a bloody big hole in anything needing a soft bullet.


Ron

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Re: The great 458 Winchester. Everyone should own one at least once [Re: MikeMcGuire] #16269892 07/21/21
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They look like a winner so far.


Semper Fi
Re: The great 458 Winchester. Everyone should own one at least once [Re: beretzs] #16271577 07/21/21
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[Linked Image]
Originally Posted by beretzs
They look like a winner so far.

They sure do. The 400-gr TSX is very likely to shoot close to same POI at closer ranges as the .458-402gr Hammer Bullet.
If Hammer Bullets would start turning out some aluminum ballistic tips to press-fit into those big hollow points would be nifty.
Maybe a plastic CEB ballistic tip will fit ?

A shoot-off between Buffalo Bore and Bubba Bore .458-400-grainers is pending.

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

The sharp edges on the XTSX hollow point will be susceptible to magazine battering.
They are OK for single-shot loading.
That could be fixed for magazine loading by chamfering less and deeper-hole drilling for precision adjustment of bullet weight.


Ron

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Re: The great 458 Winchester. Everyone should own one at least once [Re: MikeMcGuire] #16271614 07/21/21
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The .458-400gr FN solid could be slowed down for herd shooting, so as not to kill too many of the herd (elephant) with one shot from the .458 Winchester Magnum.


Ron

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Re: The great 458 Winchester. Everyone should own one at least once [Re: Riflecrank] #16271869 07/21/21
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Hannay Offline
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Originally Posted by Riflecrank
[quote=jwp475]

The GSC HV were ordered when GSC USA had come over here from SA. They got a bad shake here from getting mixed up with CheyTac.
I hope and pray I can find them again someday.


Sir Ron,
Is there more to the story that can be posted? The GSC website is still alive and I sent them an email inquiry last December, but never got a reply.

Photo below is of my first try at powder coating bullets cast from the Lyman mould - they weigh about 475 grains as coated.

[Linked Image from i.postimg.cc]



Last edited by Hannay; 07/21/21.
Re: The great 458 Winchester. Everyone should own one at least once [Re: Riflecrank] #16271957 07/21/21
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Man, you're getting it all done Sir Ron, i've been straining my pea brain on a 40 2-5/8ths Sharps, what a hellfire problem child it's been, first cartridge that's ever given me this much of a workout, with everything Saint Bagwell taught me, along with what i've learned on my own as well as several good tips from Ranch13 she gave her milk today, it's all over but the sight correlation marks on the ladder sight.

Then on to the bench with the Big 458 WM+

Re: The great 458 Winchester. Everyone should own one at least once [Re: MikeMcGuire] #16272958 07/22/21
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jwp475 Online Content
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This is a good number for GS Custom bullets I spoke with them this morning

GS Custom 269-861-2553



I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
Re: The great 458 Winchester. Everyone should own one at least once [Re: MikeMcGuire] #16272964 07/22/21
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Sirs, and any others not yet seated at the Square Table, assuming permission and good grace from you all, I'll interject a few more thoughts on 400s from my most recent range experience.

Before that, however, let me also express my sincere gratitude for Sir Ron's ongoing work, especially now re the 400gr TSX from BB and his own 400gr creations from the 450gr and 500gr TSX's.

Yesterday, at the range, I tried two distinct bullets over the same powder charge. Due to my own appreciation for 400gr bullets from both .45-70s and the great .458 Win Mag, I tested a couple of 405gr Remingtons ( a proven accurate load from the #1 Ruger in .458, and my current bear load for September) for confirmation of sight-in at 50 yards, and two 400gr Barnes Busters.

The 405s were fired first and both went into the same hole at dead-center @ 50 yards. Next, the two 400gr Busters were shot at the center of the 50 yard target. The result of the four bullets produced a single hole that measured .458" x 1.08" outside measurements. The two Barnes Busters also landed in the same hole on the right side of the 405s, breaking the target paper between making a single elongated hole! The greatest enter to center spread of the 4 was .60" as best I could measure with calipers. A 400 Buster will be loaded first for relatively close shots, followed by 405s as the range opens.

Details: Temp @ +20C/ 69F; Sunny with some haze. Elevation 900 ft.

Rifle: Ruger Tropical .458 with Mag-na-ports/24" barrel
Powder 75 grains of RL-15
WLRM primers
Hornady cases 2x fired.
Chrony was not used, but former tests gave an average of 2085 fps for the 405 Rem corrected to MV. From some evidence, I think the 400gr Busters may have been around 2100 fps (yet to be confirmed). The primers were a bit flatter than for the 405s, and there was dirty gas residue around mouth and body of cases for the Busters that were not crimped. No dirty gas residue for the 405s that were crimped into the bottom cannelure.
COL for the 405s = 3.26", and for the 400 Busters at 3.3".

The Buster has a meplat of .28", and I believe it could kill anything- and I mean ANYTHING at an impact of around 1400 fps.

Just some bits of information on some other worthy 400s.

Bob
www.bigbores.ca


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Re: The great 458 Winchester. Everyone should own one at least once [Re: Hannay] #16274242 07/22/21
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Sir Hannay,

The tale of GSC USA as of late 2018 is a woeful one. But I am cheered by the possibility that they have survived in South Carolina.
I called that number that Sir John posted, but got a message that the mail box was full, no answer.
In November 2018 Gerard Schultz emailed me and detailed the travails of GSC USA.
His daughter and her husband had initially come over to USA from RSA about 2015 or earlier,
to set up business in Michigan, soon moved to northern Indiana !
Gerard and Wife initially moved to Midland, Texas, circa 2016 and eventually got green cards and permanent USA residence in early 2017.
Then the GSC USA business was sold to CheyTac in 2016 !
Gerard and Wife moved to Charleston, SC in August/September 2016, then sold to CheyTac.
CheyTac told them to move the machinery to White City, Oregon.
They hauled 8 tons of bullet-making machinery to Oregon and then found no CheyTac facility suitable for setup.
Holy cow !
They return-tripped it back to Charleston, SC, Gerard driving one of the trucks himself !

The rest is too complicated for me to try to sort out.

It appears CheyTac decided to get out of the bullet making business and totally screwed over GSC in late 2018.
I pray that Gerard Schultz has found a way to continue business here in the USA.
Current address is in Goose Creek, SC.
I will email Gerard and see if he responds, while his telephone voicemail is full.
I shall forward this thread address to him to let him correct any misinformation if I am guilty of that.
Heck, I might need to drive down there to get some bullets if they are indeed in stock !
My only two cape buffalo were taken with GSC bullets in 2001 and 2010.

The USA is currently being led by the DALDEDs down the same path as taken by RSA.
It seems Gerard decided to leave RSA before the USA went down that path.
DALDEDs arose in the USA after he got here.
Condolences to Gerard Schultz and Company.

Regarding your PC-painting, good on you.
Some pointers from my experience:

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]


Ron

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Re: The great 458 Winchester. Everyone should own one at least once [Re: Riflecrank] #16274283 07/22/21
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Sir Ron, when I called I had the same experience as you. A few days later I got a call back as they were returning missed calls. I told them that I would post the number on the internet and he thanked me



I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
Re: The great 458 Winchester. Everyone should own one at least once [Re: gunner500] #16274307 07/22/21
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Originally Posted by gunner500
... 40 2-5/8ths Sharps ... it's all over but the sight correlation marks on the ladder sight ...


I would surely appreciate any load tips on that as I have one made by rechambering a Pedersoli .40-65 WCF.
Looking forward to anything related to the .458 WM+ too.


Ron

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Re: The great 458 Winchester. Everyone should own one at least once [Re: jwp475] #16274321 07/22/21
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Originally Posted by jwp475

Sir Ron, when I called I had the same experience as you. A few days later I got a call back as they were returning missed calls. I told them that I would post the number on the internet and he thanked me

Will look forward to a return call if the same happens for me as for sir John.


Ron

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Re: The great 458 Winchester. Everyone should own one at least once [Re: CZ550] #16274355 07/22/21
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Sir Bob,

Excellent results with 400-grainer and RL-15.

Ditto the compressed loading of RL-17 creative use in the 9.3x62mm Mauser, in your latest blog installment.
That is also a great powder for the 12Ga From Hell.
It is very reliably ignited by a 209 shotgun primer, even in charges up to 180 grains.
RL-17 is a very interesting powder.

I agree, a .458-400-grainer at 1400 fps to 2600 fps, soft and solid, is all we need in the .458 WM and .458 WM+.

The Barnes Buster, the T/C Bone Crusher, Woodleigh HYDRO, or the GSC FN 400-grainer are all very interesting magazine fillers as stopping bullet solids,
should a 400-grain soft point need backup in the .458 WM.



Ron

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Re: The great 458 Winchester. Everyone should own one at least once [Re: Riflecrank] #16274442 07/22/21
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Originally Posted by Riflecrank
Originally Posted by gunner500
... 40 2-5/8ths Sharps ... it's all over but the sight correlation marks on the ladder sight ...


I would surely appreciate any load tips on that as I have one made by rechambering a Pedersoli .40-65 WCF.
Looking forward to anything related to the .458 WM+ too.


Will do on the 40 2-5//8ths Sir Ron, 458 WM+ completely disassembled and cleaned today, alcohol cleaned and prepped metal and thread holes as well as screw threads, red loctite under rear and front sight bases, screws red loctite'd on, blue loctite on all stock screws and Talley steel base screws and holes, all curig and drying nicely tonight in Sharps rifle range box cradle LOL, will alcohol clean and red loctite sight hood if i have to make any movements in front sight getting centered on a 25 yard strip of black tape in the morning.

Got a Red Hartebeest spray painted on a sheet of cardboard for some 300 yard drop checks with the 450gr TSX BUZZSAWS! cool if not too windy i may have at the 400 yard steel gong just for chits and grins.

Last edited by gunner500; 07/23/21. Reason: Sp
Re: The great 458 Winchester. Everyone should own one at least once [Re: MikeMcGuire] #16274459 07/22/21
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http://gscbullets.com/

http://www.gscustomusa.com/cd.html

http://www.gscustomusa.com/hv.html

http://www.gscustomusa.com/order.html

http://www.gscustomusa.com/hv.html

http://www.gscustomusa.com/a.html


They are still quoting me at the last link above:

"John Barsness says the most important accuracy factor in our handloads is the bullet. No matter how we fiddle with the brass, runout, neck thickness, COL, throats, primers and primer pockets, powders, etc., you have to have a good bullet to see any returns on all the rest. And of course the twist rate has to be right for the bullet too.

"Here is another little test to show that the long throat (0.300" length of parallel-sided free-bore in the 400 Whelen-B) is not an accuracy problem. After 5 shots at 100 yards to get on paper and foul the barrel, using the GSC-USA .411"/317-grain HV, I got lucky with the next 3 shots at 100 yards, so I moved on to the windage adjustment on another aiming point, for one-hole-preservation ..."

[Linked Image]

Last edited by Riflecrank; 07/22/21.

Ron

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Re: The great 458 Winchester. Everyone should own one at least once [Re: gunner500] #16274479 07/22/21
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Originally Posted by gunner500

Got a Red Hartebeest spray painted on a sheet of cardboard for some 300 yard drop checks with the 450gr TSX BUZZSAWS! cool if not too windy i may have at the 400 yard steel gong just for chits and grins.

Should be interesting. cool


Ron

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Re: The great 458 Winchester. Everyone should own one at least once [Re: Riflecrank] #16274508 07/22/21
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Sir Ron,
Thanks for the info on GS Custom bullets. I'll be glad to hear more, when you get a response. And thanks for the powder coating tips. Actually, the photo was from my 2nd try - my 1st try was on aluminum foil shiny side up and the bullets stuck to the foil! I may try the foil the other way up, as well as the silicon baking sheet. I'm already using the hemostats and Class 5 plastic container to coat the bullets.

In addition to quoting you on the GS Custom website, I also found:

Cape buffalo

Kentucky bison

On the latter, perhaps you can explain what a "Portuguese-Texan-Heart-Shot" is, or how it differs from a Texas-heart-shot. grin

Re: The great 458 Winchester. Everyone should own one at least once [Re: jwp475] #16274529 07/22/21
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Originally Posted by jwp475
This is a good number for GS Custom bullets I spoke with them this morning

GS Custom 269-861-2553


Thanks for the info - did they take your order for bullets?

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