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Re: physics problem, can you explain this? [Re: persiandog] #16274477 07/22/21
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Originally Posted by persiandog
Originally Posted by JakeBlues
As long as the center of gravity of the length of beads outside the jar is below the surface of the remaining string inside the jar, the gravitational force down on the length outside the jar will be greater than the gravitational potential to overcome lifting the string from inside the jar.


why does it lift?


The chain follows the path of least mechanical resistance as dictated by its structure.


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Re: physics problem, can you explain this? [Re: persiandog] #16274484 07/22/21
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I hate taking engineers fishing.


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Re: physics problem, can you explain this? [Re: ltppowell] #16274495 07/22/21
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Originally Posted by ltppowell
I hate taking engineers fishing.

LOL


Progressives are the most open minded, tolerant, and inclusive people on the planet, as long as you agree with everything they say, and do exactly as you're told.
Re: physics problem, can you explain this? [Re: persiandog] #16274516 07/22/21
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It all started with the slinky

Re: physics problem, can you explain this? [Re: persiandog] #16274518 07/22/21
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IC-A

Re: physics problem, can you explain this? [Re: persiandog] #16274674 07/22/21
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You dumb flucks - everyone knows it's due to sorcery.

Re: physics problem, can you explain this? [Re: persiandog] #16274824 07/22/21
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Why so quick to discount gravity? Along with momentum, gravity is an important component as it provides potential energy. Even the "horizontal" chain video experiences a loss of potential energy. That is, we are expending energy to overcome losses due to the motion of the chain. Show me a video of a chain being slung from one end of a flat table to another and not onto the floor as in the later video.

Another effect of gravity is that for a dropped object, up to a point, it's velocity increases over time. Gravity causes acceleration. However, since we are talking about a chain the leading end of the chain cannot move any faster than the trailing end. I would posit that the higher the beaker is held the faster it will empty. I doubt that the beaker would empty if it was setting on the floor no matter how hard (within reason) the initial tug. That is, the greater the change in potential energy the higher the steady-state velocity (and likely the higher the lift).

Why does it lift? Hmm... This type of chain doesn't bend ninety degrees between adjacent beads. To make the turn it has to "rainbow" For the beaker, the chain must turn 180 degrees (up out of the beaker then turning down). For the "horizontal" the chain must turn 90 degrees. Since both ends of the chain are traveling at the same velocity, the trailing end coming out of the beaker has a certain momentum due to its velocity in turn due to the change in potential energy. To change the direction (momentum) takes force over time due to energy). The higher the velocity, the higher the lift(?).

Also, consider a siphon hose. Ignoring losses, all that really matters is that the outlet is lower than the inlet. In between, the hose can be at any height either below or above the end points. Other than the difference in the endpoints, all the other force and momenta differentials at the various elevations cancel out. I believe we have a similar situation with the beaded chain. However, as an aside, in this case the "fluid" in motion is not constrained by the hose and can get "squirrely" as observed.

The preceding not worth $0.02.

Last edited by Hoosier_Beagler; 07/22/21.
Re: physics problem, can you explain this? [Re: persiandog] #16274842 07/22/21
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Originally Posted by persiandog
Originally Posted by JakeBlues
As long as the center of gravity of the length of beads outside the jar is below the surface of the remaining string inside the jar, the gravitational force down on the length outside the jar will be greater than the gravitational potential to overcome lifting the string from inside the jar.


why does it lift?

I am going to say "lateral acceleration".

A body in motion tends to stay in motion. Any change in direction is lateral acceleration.

For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction.

As the direction of motion of the chain is changed from horizontal to vertical, there is an equal force directing the chain to continue horizontally as there is to accelerate it downward.

That apposing force eventually lifts a section of the chain.

Prediction: Barring any resistance, the faster the chain falls, the higher the arc.

It reminds me of setting siphon tubes to irrigate 40 acres of corn.


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That each person may reap as he/she has sown.
Re: physics problem, can you explain this? [Re: persiandog] #16275650 07/23/21
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Man, that's a tough one.

If it was me, I'd ask Wabi !

wink


Paul.

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Re: physics problem, can you explain this? [Re: Triggernosis] #16275865 07/23/21
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Originally Posted by Triggernosis
You dumb flucks - everyone knows it's due to sorcery.

russians

IC-B

Re: physics problem, can you explain this? [Re: persiandog] #16276103 07/23/21
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As Idaho said, the effect is analogous to siphoning. The downward acceleration of the chain that's below the level of the stored chain causes the stored part to rise so it can clear the rim of the container. The greater the mass of the falling chain (length) the harder it pulls on the stored chain, and therefore, the higher the stored chain initially rises.


Cleverly disguised as a responsible adult.

Re: physics problem, can you explain this? [Re: RockyRaab] #16276163 07/23/21
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Originally Posted by RockyRaab
As Idaho said, the effect is analogous to siphoning. The downward acceleration of the chain that's below the level of the stored chain causes the stored part to rise so it can clear the rim of the container. The greater the mass of the falling chain (length) the harder it pulls on the stored chain, and therefore, the higher the stored chain initially rises.


then how do you explain when chain is pulled horizontally?

Re: physics problem, can you explain this? [Re: persiandog] #16276267 07/23/21
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again: equal and opposite forces

There is as much force pushing up on each chain link as it changes direction as there is pulling down.

Each chain link would continue out on a parabolic arc, just like a bullet. Except they are tied to the falling links below.

As the links are deflected from that parabolic arc, that energy goes to push the links in the opposite direction of acceleration. Thus the lift.

Newtonian Physics: 10'th grade High School


My ideal as a conservative:

That each person may reap as he/she has sown.
Re: physics problem, can you explain this? [Re: New_2_99s] #16276306 07/23/21
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[quote=New_2_99s]Man, that's a tough one.

If it was me, I'd ask Wabi !

;


That's over my pay grade.

High school physics was of the few, few, classes I got a A in. laugh

We studied more practical problems.


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Re: physics problem, can you explain this? [Re: persiandog] #16276444 07/23/21
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I wonder what it would look like in slow motion if the chain were coiled up inside the jar. You can see that the chain on the table is setup in a zig zag pattern. Would it look like a tornado?


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