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Originally Posted by PaulBarnard
Yesterday I was able to observe a herd of elk for about 30 minutes. I had never done that before, so it was fascinating. They were in a very large meadow surrounded by aspens and spruce trees. I was watching them from a mile and a half away with a spotting scope.

The first thing that surprised me is how often they'd start trotting for no apparent reason. The herd was predominantly cows, many with calves. As it started getting darker, they all ran toward a bowl in the middle of the meadow. Two would randomly square off, rear up on their hind legs and "box" with their front hooves. This played out with a lot of different cows over about a 5 minute period. There were three bulls lower in the meadow. One was a spike the other was decent and one had a massive rack. The big one chilled and ate most of the time, although he did butt the medium bull once and a few cows that walked by too. Every now and he'd bluff charge another elk that would get close.

Is this kinda normal of herd behavior for this time of year?


yep

A herd used to hang out on my property for a few months every spring. the dog and I would sit above them every evening , when the wind was right, and observe for hours from about a 100 yards away. pretty tolerant

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

Last edited by ribka; 07/26/21.
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Originally Posted by ribka
Originally Posted by PaulBarnard
Yesterday I was able to observe a herd of elk for about 30 minutes. I had never done that before, so it was fascinating. They were in a very large meadow surrounded by aspens and spruce trees. I was watching them from a mile and a half away with a spotting scope.

The first thing that surprised me is how often they'd start trotting for no apparent reason. The herd was predominantly cows, many with calves. As it started getting darker, they all ran toward a bowl in the middle of the meadow. Two would randomly square off, rear up on their hind legs and "box" with their front hooves. This played out with a lot of different cows over about a 5 minute period. There were three bulls lower in the meadow. One was a spike the other was decent and one had a massive rack. The big one chilled and ate most of the time, although he did butt the medium bull once and a few cows that walked by too. Every now and he'd bluff charge another elk that would get close.

Is this kinda normal of herd behavior for this time of year?


yep

A herd used to hang out on my property for a few months every spring. the dog and I would sit above them every evening , when the wind was right, and observe for hours from about a 100 yards away. pretty tolerant

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]


I tried to get close to them by bicycling to within about a half mile, the walking the rest, but that meant I would have had to bicycled back down the mountain after dark. The trail was too technical for that.

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As already stated you can catch them going in and out of the timber both early and late in the day. Last year I took two, one at 1802 pm the other 1300 in the middle of the day. If they are not pushed around they like to come out in the afternoon for a snack. Not always the case but I have killed quite a few in the middle of the day.

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While archery elk hunting on the Flattops one year, I watched a group of 8 elk on the N side of Deep Creek, moving to the East.

There are a series of drainages on that South facing slope. The herd would stand in the bottom of the drainage while the (presumed) lead cow walked up the side, taking one step, stop for several moments, then another step, and so on.

When she determined the next basin was safe, she trotted over the top with the herd right behind her. She repeated this behavior on every drainage, until they went out of sight.

Another time, while deer hunting NW Colorado, I was still hunting through some Pinion Junipers and spotted the rear leg of a resting Elk, at about 50yds. As I am looking through the branches, I make eye contact and the Elk explodes out of there along with 20+ of his buddies.

The herd runs across a plateau, and stops about 150yds out, in knee high Sagebrush. All the Elk are looking around, except for the spike that saw me, he had me pegged. After several minutes of looking around, the (presumed) lead cow starts walking to the E, about 20-30yds, and the herd shifted with her, except the spike. He did not take his eyes, or ears, off me.

Another several minutes, and the lead cow shifts to the W, along with the herd. Except for the spike, who was still staring at me.

After several more minutes, the lead cow starts to trot to the S, and the herd falls into single file behind her, except for the spike. He is still glued to me. When the herd was maybe 100-150yds away from the spike, he finally turned and raced after them.

My conclusion from these, and other, encounters with elk, is that the lead cow controls nearly everything her herd does. The spike knew I was there, but he could not 'tell' the lead cow "hey, there's a human. Let's get out of here." The herd waited until the lead cow made the decision.

Fascinating animals to watch, and hunt

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From game cam at my water trough

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Originally Posted by k22hornet
While archery elk hunting on the Flattops one year, I watched a group of 8 elk on the N side of Deep Creek, moving to the East.

There are a series of drainages on that South facing slope. The herd would stand in the bottom of the drainage while the (presumed) lead cow walked up the side, taking one step, stop for several moments, then another step, and so on.

When she determined the next basin was safe, she trotted over the top with the herd right behind her. She repeated this behavior on every drainage, until they went out of sight.

Another time, while deer hunting NW Colorado, I was still hunting through some Pinion Junipers and spotted the rear leg of a resting Elk, at about 50yds. As I am looking through the branches, I make eye contact and the Elk explodes out of there along with 20+ of his buddies.

The herd runs across a plateau, and stops about 150yds out, in knee high Sagebrush. All the Elk are looking around, except for the spike that saw me, he had me pegged. After several minutes of looking around, the (presumed) lead cow starts walking to the E, about 20-30yds, and the herd shifted with her, except the spike. He did not take his eyes, or ears, off me.

Another several minutes, and the lead cow shifts to the W, along with the herd. Except for the spike, who was still staring at me.

After several more minutes, the lead cow starts to trot to the S, and the herd falls into single file behind her, except for the spike. He is still glued to me. When the herd was maybe 100-150yds away from the spike, he finally turned and raced after them.

My conclusion from these, and other, encounters with elk, is that the lead cow controls nearly everything her herd does. The spike knew I was there, but he could not 'tell' the lead cow "hey, there's a human. Let's get out of here." The herd waited until the lead cow made the decision.

Fascinating animals to watch, and hunt

\

Those old cows are something else!







Last edited by troublesome82; 08/14/21.
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A lot of people think the herd bull is the boss. He's not. He's just a breeding machine that the cows have to put up with. The lead cow is the boss.


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I never knew about the "lead cow." That's fascinating.

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Many species have a female leader, deer, elephants, lions, etc. How dominant that leadership is is variable.


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This resident herd of elk is in my pasture almost every night and I've watched them for years but I have never been able to pick out "Lead Cow" out of the bunch, and if I did I dont know how I would know its the same one from day to day. That plus some days theres up to 150 head and other days theres 25-30. This pic was a few evenings ago and they were playing king of the mountain on a pile of dirt I dug out of my pond when it was dry earlier this year. I also got some nice video of some calves chasing each other off the top of the pile but didnt figure a way to attach it to a post.

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unless they move it can be impossible to pick her out. If they move she'll be in the lead.


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Hopefully this has not been voiced yet, but what I found fascinating to watch was how a bedded herd of elk are positioned during their midday nap! I watched one good sized herd many years ago across a valley from me. There were several bulls roaming around , two big ones in the middle sparring, even saw one of em mounting a cow. I found this behavior unheard of from my discussions with other hunters. This was 2nd season, end of October that year , circa '92. The perimeter was stategically bedded cows all facing out! Later in the day when they took off , the lead cow had been bedded in the middle of the perimeter and took the lead up over the ridgeline!
Incredible to watch!

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Originally Posted by PaulBarnard
I am sure this is kinda meh for those of you living in elk country, but I thought is was incredibly fascinating.


Something wrong with a person that does not enjoy watching elk, even if you live near them and see it often.


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Originally Posted by PaulBarnard
Yesterday I was able to observe a herd of elk for about 30 minutes. I had never done that before, so it was fascinating. They were in a very large meadow surrounded by aspens and spruce trees. I was watching them from a mile and a half away with a spotting scope.

The first thing that surprised me is how often they'd start trotting for no apparent reason. The herd was predominantly cows, many with calves. As it started getting darker, they all ran toward a bowl in the middle of the meadow. Two would randomly square off, rear up on their hind legs and "box" with their front hooves. This played out with a lot of different cows over about a 5 minute period. There were three bulls lower in the meadow. One was a spike the other was decent and one had a massive rack. The big one chilled and ate most of the time, although he did butt the medium bull once and a few cows that walked by too. Every now and he'd bluff charge another elk that would get close.

Is this kinda normal of herd behavior for this time of year?


A guy could watch a cow-calf herd all day and never see them fuss at one another, but it's not uncommon either. Those bunches/herds of elk have a pecking order too, and cows often enough test or establish their place in the herd. If there happens to be a choice little patch of grazing one may guard it from the others.

I grew up with deer and elk sleeping under my bedroom window, and if a guy wants to see a full house cow elk fight watch them fight over the hay scraps after feeding cattle or horses in the winter.


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Originally Posted by saddlesore
Shooting the lead cow ends up removing that learned behavior of where and when to go and typically is a little older which leads to tougher meat. Better for the herd to let the old gal go She didn't get there being meek and stupid.



Yes, if possible I try to avoid that.


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Originally Posted by alpinecrick
Originally Posted by saddlesore
Shooting the lead cow ends up removing that learned behavior of where and when to go and typically is a little older which leads to tougher meat. Better for the herd to let the old gal go She didn't get there being meek and stupid.



Yes, if possible I try to avoid that.
At the same time, every herd has any number of old bitches capable of leading. Almost immediately, one will take her place after roughing up a few others to prove herself. They've been following the former leader for a while and likely know the good spots like she did.


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Originally Posted by Rock Chuck
Originally Posted by alpinecrick
Originally Posted by saddlesore
Shooting the lead cow ends up removing that learned behavior of where and when to go and typically is a little older which leads to tougher meat. Better for the herd to let the old gal go She didn't get there being meek and stupid.



Yes, if possible I try to avoid that.
At the same time, every herd has any number of old bitches capable of leading. Almost immediately, one will take her place after roughing up a few others to prove herself. They've been following the former leader for a while and likely know the good spots like she did.


very true, elk are smart and the next in line will take over and they'll be fine. I don't like the lead cow because she's usually old and tough as has been mentioned


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Had this guy out in my pasture a week ago at first light, there were about 100+ cows and 5 other smaller bulls that were keeping their distance from him. You can see a smaller bull out ahead of him in one of the pics. The rut is on.

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One quick note on "lead" cows, two of them I that have killed were both were missing several teeth, which restricted their ability to eat, hence they were tough. As pointed out earlier, I recommend IF possible shoot one farther back in the herd they eat better. Another thing which i have seen is that a very young animal is the first one out of the timber. I really believe they are also testing to see if it attacked by something.

Last edited by elkmen1; 09/20/21.
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Originally Posted by elkmen1
One quick note on "lead" cows, two of them I that have killed were both were missing several teeth, which restricted their ability to eat, hence they were tough. As pointed out earlier, I recommend IF possible shoot one farther back in the herd they eat better. Another thing which i have seen is that a very young animal is the first one out of the timber. I really believe they are also testing to see if it attacked by something.

On teeth.. Not to stray too far, but I got an 8.5 year old mulie that was missing one major front tooth, a central incisor. Maybe no connection, but the very back antler tines were stunted. I wonder if teeth and feeding was a problem with this old deer?

Last edited by Wrapids; 09/20/21.
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