Yesterday I was able to observe a herd of elk for about 30 minutes. I had never done that before, so it was fascinating. They were in a very large meadow surrounded by aspens and spruce trees. I was watching them from a mile and a half away with a spotting scope.
The first thing that surprised me is how often they'd start trotting for no apparent reason. The herd was predominantly cows, many with calves. As it started getting darker, they all ran toward a bowl in the middle of the meadow. Two would randomly square off, rear up on their hind legs and "box" with their front hooves. This played out with a lot of different cows over about a 5 minute period. There were three bulls lower in the meadow. One was a spike the other was decent and one had a massive rack. The big one chilled and ate most of the time, although he did butt the medium bull once and a few cows that walked by too. Every now and he'd bluff charge another elk that would get close.
Is this kinda normal of herd behavior for this time of year?
Pretty normal. Bulls don't pay attention to cows for another month +. Cows are always establishing pecking orders. as they appear to be boxing. Some are just feeling good and playing
If God wanted you to walk and carry things on your back, He would not have invented stirrups and pack saddles
One of them is the lead cow. She got the job by being the meanest, raunchiest old bitch in the herd. They have a pecking order and cows spar all the time as they try to move up in the order. They're also very alert. If one sees or smells something suspicious, she'll trigger the rest to come to full alert and to be ready to move out. OTOH, sometimes it seems like they think there's safety in numbers. A couple times I've stumbled right into a large herd and had them just stand and look at me from less than 50 yds. One time I ran into a herd in black timber. I had several just stand and look at me from 10 yds. That time I had a bull tag and there wasn't a bull to be found.
“In a time of deceit telling the truth is a revolutionary act.” ― George Orwell
It's not over when you lose. It's over when you quit.
There's something else I've seen many times and have shot several elk as a result. Watch for a herd moving out of the timber into the open right before dark. If you see that, be there before light the next morning because more often than not they'll still be there.
“In a time of deceit telling the truth is a revolutionary act.” ― George Orwell
It's not over when you lose. It's over when you quit.
I have never hunted elk but I have talked to them walked with the took their portraits and during the rut enraged them. I dream of the day when I draw a tag and finally get to hunt them. Until that day I will continue to talk, walk and take their pictures every fall and spring. I have called a 7x7 to within 5 yards while I was hiding behind a multiflora rose bush shaking like a leaf. I never felt so alive as I did at that moment. My wife told me I scared the crap out of her. I said you? I could literally see blood in his eye. I get excited every time I think of that encounter.
There's something else I've seen many times and have shot several elk as a result. Watch for a herd moving out of the timber into the open right before dark. If you see that, be there before light the next morning because more often than not they'll still be there.
And when the move out in the AM, once they clear the timber, who ever had the cow tag puts a CNS hit on the lead cow. This puts the whole herd in a state of confusion causing them to mill a bit providing a good opportunity for your party to fill some more tags. They won't just stand there, they will be moving, but they will present a good opportunity for the hunters who are comfortable taking moving game.
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
If they feel secure, they can be almost friendly. 6 or 8 years ago, we spotted a herd of maybe 70 or 80, mostly cows with a few bulls, in a wide draw about 2000' above us, about 2 miles on foot going straight at them. It was mid afternoon. I was the only one in our group crazy enough to go up there and it took me a couple hours. I was in plain sight of them the whole time but I wore subdued clothes, moved slowly, and tried to keep sideways movement to a minimum. I guess that they felt secure way up there and I don't know if they saw me and ignored me or just didn't look very hard. I got in to about 300 yds before I decided that I'd better not push my luck any farther and shot my cow. It was so steep that I climbed on all 4's to get up to her and I needed to roll her down about 1/4 mile to find a place to keep my footing to dress her out. As I was rolling her down the mountain, 8 or 10 cows stood on a knob about 150 yds away barking at me for 5 or 10 min. They knew I wasn't supposed to be there but they didn't seem particularly spooked. Maybe they thought my cow had approved of me even though she had 4 feet in the air.
“In a time of deceit telling the truth is a revolutionary act.” ― George Orwell
It's not over when you lose. It's over when you quit.
There's something else I've seen many times and have shot several elk as a result. Watch for a herd moving out of the timber into the open right before dark. If you see that, be there before light the next morning because more often than not they'll still be there.
And when the move out in the AM, once they clear the timber, who ever had the cow tag puts a CNS hit on the lead cow. This puts the whole herd in a state of confusion causing them to mill a bit providing a good opportunity for your party to fill some more tags. They won't just stand there, they will be moving, but they will present a good opportunity for the hunters who are comfortable taking moving game.
Last season I shot the lead cow as the bunch entered a small meadow. First in line was a spike, then a big calf,, then the lead cow. More, then the herd bull bringing up the rear.
Talk about milling around! A big 6x5 stood there, looking at me less than 150 yards away as I walked over to the downed cow. And me with only a cow tag in my pocket.
Eventually the bull got everyone organized, and they all swung a big arc around me at ~200 yards away and loped over the hill.
It's you and the bullet, and all the rest is secondary.
I've been fortunate enough to have been born and raised in good elk country, now semi retired and living back on the family ranch. We have a decent sized herd of elk moving though my property almost daily. I've got a few videos of elk taken just a few days ago with the calves playing tag and some nice pics but not savvy enough to post without reducing them beyond recognition. If someone can post a video I can sent it to them.
Life (and forums) is like a box of animal crackers----There's a Jackass in every box
Shooting the lead cow ends up removing that learned behavior of where and when to go and typically is a little older which leads to tougher meat. Better for the herd to let the old gal go She didn't get there being meek and stupid.
If God wanted you to walk and carry things on your back, He would not have invented stirrups and pack saddles
I saw a herd over a hundred strong this evening. I was awed. I wished for better glass. I saw some playing, but none of the antics of a few evenings ago.
It's a bad pic, but it was the best my pocket super zoom could do in poor light at a mile and a half. This was one of 3 clusters of similar size, and many more were scattered about the side of the mountain.
Shooting the lead cow ends up removing that learned behavior of where and when to go and typically is a little older which leads to tougher meat. Better for the herd to let the old gal go She didn't get there being meek and stupid.
That's true. If I have a choice, I'll avoid the lead cow, assuming I can figure out which one she is. My last 2, though, didn't give me a choice. Last year it was a single cow with a bull and the year before that, I was moving in on a large herd when a lone cow walked into sight at about 75 yds. I didn't spend any time debating on whether either one was the leader.
“In a time of deceit telling the truth is a revolutionary act.” ― George Orwell
It's not over when you lose. It's over when you quit.
Shooting the lead cow ends up removing that learned behavior of where and when to go and typically is a little older which leads to tougher meat. Better for the herd to let the old gal go She didn't get there being meek and stupid.
We used to never shoot cows, but a few guys in our group started picking off cows every year. We must have whacked some lead cows since we seldom have large groups of cow elk coming on our spot with regularity like before. Perhaps the old ways were lost to the meat pole?
Life Member NRA, RMEF, American Legion, MAGA. Not necessarily in that order.
Yesterday I was able to observe a herd of elk for about 30 minutes. I had never done that before, so it was fascinating. They were in a very large meadow surrounded by aspens and spruce trees. I was watching them from a mile and a half away with a spotting scope.
The first thing that surprised me is how often they'd start trotting for no apparent reason. The herd was predominantly cows, many with calves. As it started getting darker, they all ran toward a bowl in the middle of the meadow. Two would randomly square off, rear up on their hind legs and "box" with their front hooves. This played out with a lot of different cows over about a 5 minute period. There were three bulls lower in the meadow. One was a spike the other was decent and one had a massive rack. The big one chilled and ate most of the time, although he did butt the medium bull once and a few cows that walked by too. Every now and he'd bluff charge another elk that would get close.
Is this kinda normal of herd behavior for this time of year?
yep
A herd used to hang out on my property for a few months every spring. the dog and I would sit above them every evening , when the wind was right, and observe for hours from about a 100 yards away. pretty tolerant
Yesterday I was able to observe a herd of elk for about 30 minutes. I had never done that before, so it was fascinating. They were in a very large meadow surrounded by aspens and spruce trees. I was watching them from a mile and a half away with a spotting scope.
The first thing that surprised me is how often they'd start trotting for no apparent reason. The herd was predominantly cows, many with calves. As it started getting darker, they all ran toward a bowl in the middle of the meadow. Two would randomly square off, rear up on their hind legs and "box" with their front hooves. This played out with a lot of different cows over about a 5 minute period. There were three bulls lower in the meadow. One was a spike the other was decent and one had a massive rack. The big one chilled and ate most of the time, although he did butt the medium bull once and a few cows that walked by too. Every now and he'd bluff charge another elk that would get close.
Is this kinda normal of herd behavior for this time of year?
yep
A herd used to hang out on my property for a few months every spring. the dog and I would sit above them every evening , when the wind was right, and observe for hours from about a 100 yards away. pretty tolerant
I tried to get close to them by bicycling to within about a half mile, the walking the rest, but that meant I would have had to bicycled back down the mountain after dark. The trail was too technical for that.
As already stated you can catch them going in and out of the timber both early and late in the day. Last year I took two, one at 1802 pm the other 1300 in the middle of the day. If they are not pushed around they like to come out in the afternoon for a snack. Not always the case but I have killed quite a few in the middle of the day.
While archery elk hunting on the Flattops one year, I watched a group of 8 elk on the N side of Deep Creek, moving to the East.
There are a series of drainages on that South facing slope. The herd would stand in the bottom of the drainage while the (presumed) lead cow walked up the side, taking one step, stop for several moments, then another step, and so on.
When she determined the next basin was safe, she trotted over the top with the herd right behind her. She repeated this behavior on every drainage, until they went out of sight.
Another time, while deer hunting NW Colorado, I was still hunting through some Pinion Junipers and spotted the rear leg of a resting Elk, at about 50yds. As I am looking through the branches, I make eye contact and the Elk explodes out of there along with 20+ of his buddies.
The herd runs across a plateau, and stops about 150yds out, in knee high Sagebrush. All the Elk are looking around, except for the spike that saw me, he had me pegged. After several minutes of looking around, the (presumed) lead cow starts walking to the E, about 20-30yds, and the herd shifted with her, except the spike. He did not take his eyes, or ears, off me.
Another several minutes, and the lead cow shifts to the W, along with the herd. Except for the spike, who was still staring at me.
After several more minutes, the lead cow starts to trot to the S, and the herd falls into single file behind her, except for the spike. He is still glued to me. When the herd was maybe 100-150yds away from the spike, he finally turned and raced after them.
My conclusion from these, and other, encounters with elk, is that the lead cow controls nearly everything her herd does. The spike knew I was there, but he could not 'tell' the lead cow "hey, there's a human. Let's get out of here." The herd waited until the lead cow made the decision.
While archery elk hunting on the Flattops one year, I watched a group of 8 elk on the N side of Deep Creek, moving to the East.
There are a series of drainages on that South facing slope. The herd would stand in the bottom of the drainage while the (presumed) lead cow walked up the side, taking one step, stop for several moments, then another step, and so on.
When she determined the next basin was safe, she trotted over the top with the herd right behind her. She repeated this behavior on every drainage, until they went out of sight.
Another time, while deer hunting NW Colorado, I was still hunting through some Pinion Junipers and spotted the rear leg of a resting Elk, at about 50yds. As I am looking through the branches, I make eye contact and the Elk explodes out of there along with 20+ of his buddies.
The herd runs across a plateau, and stops about 150yds out, in knee high Sagebrush. All the Elk are looking around, except for the spike that saw me, he had me pegged. After several minutes of looking around, the (presumed) lead cow starts walking to the E, about 20-30yds, and the herd shifted with her, except the spike. He did not take his eyes, or ears, off me.
Another several minutes, and the lead cow shifts to the W, along with the herd. Except for the spike, who was still staring at me.
After several more minutes, the lead cow starts to trot to the S, and the herd falls into single file behind her, except for the spike. He is still glued to me. When the herd was maybe 100-150yds away from the spike, he finally turned and raced after them.
My conclusion from these, and other, encounters with elk, is that the lead cow controls nearly everything her herd does. The spike knew I was there, but he could not 'tell' the lead cow "hey, there's a human. Let's get out of here." The herd waited until the lead cow made the decision.
This resident herd of elk is in my pasture almost every night and I've watched them for years but I have never been able to pick out "Lead Cow" out of the bunch, and if I did I dont know how I would know its the same one from day to day. That plus some days theres up to 150 head and other days theres 25-30. This pic was a few evenings ago and they were playing king of the mountain on a pile of dirt I dug out of my pond when it was dry earlier this year. I also got some nice video of some calves chasing each other off the top of the pile but didnt figure a way to attach it to a post.
Life (and forums) is like a box of animal crackers----There's a Jackass in every box
Hopefully this has not been voiced yet, but what I found fascinating to watch was how a bedded herd of elk are positioned during their midday nap! I watched one good sized herd many years ago across a valley from me. There were several bulls roaming around , two big ones in the middle sparring, even saw one of em mounting a cow. I found this behavior unheard of from my discussions with other hunters. This was 2nd season, end of October that year , circa '92. The perimeter was stategically bedded cows all facing out! Later in the day when they took off , the lead cow had been bedded in the middle of the perimeter and took the lead up over the ridgeline! Incredible to watch!
Yesterday I was able to observe a herd of elk for about 30 minutes. I had never done that before, so it was fascinating. They were in a very large meadow surrounded by aspens and spruce trees. I was watching them from a mile and a half away with a spotting scope.
The first thing that surprised me is how often they'd start trotting for no apparent reason. The herd was predominantly cows, many with calves. As it started getting darker, they all ran toward a bowl in the middle of the meadow. Two would randomly square off, rear up on their hind legs and "box" with their front hooves. This played out with a lot of different cows over about a 5 minute period. There were three bulls lower in the meadow. One was a spike the other was decent and one had a massive rack. The big one chilled and ate most of the time, although he did butt the medium bull once and a few cows that walked by too. Every now and he'd bluff charge another elk that would get close.
Is this kinda normal of herd behavior for this time of year?
A guy could watch a cow-calf herd all day and never see them fuss at one another, but it's not uncommon either. Those bunches/herds of elk have a pecking order too, and cows often enough test or establish their place in the herd. If there happens to be a choice little patch of grazing one may guard it from the others.
I grew up with deer and elk sleeping under my bedroom window, and if a guy wants to see a full house cow elk fight watch them fight over the hay scraps after feeding cattle or horses in the winter.
Casey
Not being married to any particular political party sure makes it a lot easier to look at the world more objectively... Having said that, MAGA.
Shooting the lead cow ends up removing that learned behavior of where and when to go and typically is a little older which leads to tougher meat. Better for the herd to let the old gal go She didn't get there being meek and stupid.
Yes, if possible I try to avoid that.
Casey
Not being married to any particular political party sure makes it a lot easier to look at the world more objectively... Having said that, MAGA.
Shooting the lead cow ends up removing that learned behavior of where and when to go and typically is a little older which leads to tougher meat. Better for the herd to let the old gal go She didn't get there being meek and stupid.
Yes, if possible I try to avoid that.
At the same time, every herd has any number of old bitches capable of leading. Almost immediately, one will take her place after roughing up a few others to prove herself. They've been following the former leader for a while and likely know the good spots like she did.
“In a time of deceit telling the truth is a revolutionary act.” ― George Orwell
It's not over when you lose. It's over when you quit.
Shooting the lead cow ends up removing that learned behavior of where and when to go and typically is a little older which leads to tougher meat. Better for the herd to let the old gal go She didn't get there being meek and stupid.
Yes, if possible I try to avoid that.
At the same time, every herd has any number of old bitches capable of leading. Almost immediately, one will take her place after roughing up a few others to prove herself. They've been following the former leader for a while and likely know the good spots like she did.
very true, elk are smart and the next in line will take over and they'll be fine. I don't like the lead cow because she's usually old and tough as has been mentioned
Beware of any old man in a profession where one usually dies young.
Had this guy out in my pasture a week ago at first light, there were about 100+ cows and 5 other smaller bulls that were keeping their distance from him. You can see a smaller bull out ahead of him in one of the pics. The rut is on.
Life (and forums) is like a box of animal crackers----There's a Jackass in every box
One quick note on "lead" cows, two of them I that have killed were both were missing several teeth, which restricted their ability to eat, hence they were tough. As pointed out earlier, I recommend IF possible shoot one farther back in the herd they eat better. Another thing which i have seen is that a very young animal is the first one out of the timber. I really believe they are also testing to see if it attacked by something.
One quick note on "lead" cows, two of them I that have killed were both were missing several teeth, which restricted their ability to eat, hence they were tough. As pointed out earlier, I recommend IF possible shoot one farther back in the herd they eat better. Another thing which i have seen is that a very young animal is the first one out of the timber. I really believe they are also testing to see if it attacked by something.
On teeth.. Not to stray too far, but I got an 8.5 year old mulie that was missing one major front tooth, a central incisor. Maybe no connection, but the very back antler tines were stunted. I wonder if teeth and feeding was a problem with this old deer?
I would bet so, without adequate nutrients and forage, they go into a decline. I have also killed what I thought were very old deer and one was. two pointer. I am sure it was because he wasn't eating well.
![[Linked Image from i.postimg.cc]](https://i.postimg.cc/nztdq80K/IMG-0649.jpg)
![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](https://i.imgur.com/MXlF4Zo.jpg)
![[Linked Image from i.postimg.cc]](https://i.postimg.cc/nLv6HJFF/BullElk.jpg)
![[Linked Image from i.postimg.cc]](https://i.postimg.cc/QC9MYCDN/Sept7-Elk1.jpg)
![[Linked Image from i.postimg.cc]](https://i.postimg.cc/QCScsLXp/King-Of-Mtn.jpg)
![[Linked Image from i.postimg.cc]](https://i.postimg.cc/FHXFMFzk/Sept2-Bull1.jpg)
![[Linked Image from i.postimg.cc]](https://i.postimg.cc/zDxKyy5r/Sept2-Bull2.jpg)