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Re: The Old Man - Advice Needed [Re: High_Noon] #16275200 07/23/21
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asking for domestic advice here is not going to help you much.


Sam......

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Re: The Old Man - Advice Needed [Re: High_Noon] #16275256 07/23/21
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Originally Posted by High_Noon
I could use a little advice regarding the old man. I know many of you have dealt with similar situations so I thought I would illicit the collective opinions of my fellow ‘fire members and friends here.

For years and years now – a decade or more - my father has been extremely difficult to deal with. He is verbally abusive to my mother and though he has never struck her, it’s a wonder she never left him. His verbal abuse and yelling are almost constant and he is chock full of vitriol. I’m currently visiting the folks and the other night there was yet another yelling battle where he repeated yelling each of three inane statements approximately 23 times. Over and over and over. It was sad to see and hear. My mother has been an absolute saint dealing with it all and she’s very sharp, but she resents the fact that she hasn’t had much of a life in many years due to Dad’s difficulties.

Dad still has most of his facilities, but several years ago he was diagnosed with Parkinson’s, which he refuses to acknowledge and for which he will not take medication. When visiting the doctors, he is on his very best behavior, so the doctors somewhat support his contention, but he regresses extremely quickly once out the door. In recent years he has gotten worse in terms of his decision-making ability – especially financial decisions. His one-tracked mindedness (no matter how asinine his ideas), his verbal abuse to my mother, his physical condition, his slumped-over posture and his failure to hear (which he denies) as well as his ability to track conversations and make associations during a conversation have all worsened. The other day I turned on the TV in the kitchen and nearly had my eardrums blown out – he had the TV cranked up to 72! He’s constantly got Fox News running with the volume cranked, which is hard to deal with. I can only hear about the Delta Variant, Critical Race Theory and that total jackass Hidden Biden so much before I start going mad myself. He waffles back-and-forth with any and every decision to the point where it has become preposterous. Mom can’t really make any decision without Dad flying off the handle. His decisions are almost always wrong (in my opinion) and end up costing 3 times as much as it would have cost if he made a correct decision – which has been a decades-long issue, but has also gotten worse. Additionally, he probably shouldn’t be driving any longer for a variety of reasons.

Then there's the fact that he can also be the sweetest and most generous and genuine man you can imagine.

My brother and I are at a loss as to what to do about the situation. Mom wants to put him in a home, but I can only imagine what a total nightmare that would be. Brother wants to get an attorney involved and transfer power of attorney to Mom. I strongly suspect he eventually wants to pass at home, and who could blame him for that, but his erratic and mean behavior make that difficult for Mom. I know it’s extremely difficult and hurtful for older men to hear any of this from their family, but the time has come and something needs to be done.

So how do I approach this situation as the eldest son as delicately as possible without hurting him and his pride and what is the best course of action?

Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.

We had the same issue with my Dad who had Parkinsons. Last few years was tough on my mom. He was very abusive at the end both to nurses and my mom. No family can prepare for such a problem. I just kept reminding my mom that dad was miserable and sick and not in his right mind. Parkinsons is a slow killer that slowing over decades causes a deterioration of a persons abilities and effects so much of the way the patient feels physically and mentally. It also effects sleep. Dad was on his best behavior at the docs and he would outright lie about his condition to them. My mom just dealt with it. God bless her. I wasnt much help 1000 miles away but my sister was around my parents. Its going to get rough on your mom as he wears her down. My advise is talk to her often and listen to her. Dad died last year one miserable SOB. Not the man I knew for 57 years. We decided to remember the man he was before Parkensons destroyed his life. Good luck to your family. One day it will be over.


Life can be rough on us dreamers.
Re: The Old Man - Advice Needed [Re: 12344mag] #16275273 07/23/21
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Originally Posted by 12344mag
Originally Posted by antelope_sniper
Originally Posted by High_Noon
700: Good idea, but I don't think Dad would survive for long without her. He never puts anything away, leaves crap all over the place, leaves doors, cabinets, drawers, and even the refrigerator open on occasion. ..


That might be good for him.
Let him see there can be consequences for his bad behavior.



It won't matter, he's sick and not in his right mind.

Unfortunately this is the reality of it.


Life can be rough on us dreamers.
Re: The Old Man - Advice Needed [Re: High_Noon] #16275295 07/23/21
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1) take care of your mom
2) turn off the TV or change it to something else. All that constant crap on FOX, and other "news channels" will piss anyone off.
3)Have a come to Jesus with him. Tell him to straighten up or there will be consequences all the way up to moving him into a home.

If you can, record some of the stuff he is doing so you can show it to the doctor. He may be able to help as well if he know the true picture.


I may not be smart but I can lift heavy objects

I have a shotgun so I have no need for a 30-06.....
Re: The Old Man - Advice Needed [Re: High_Noon] #16275335 07/23/21
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IMHO, your mom and brother have said where to start........... Move him to where he can be helped and protect his assets..............

Parkinsons, in it's own right, is bad enough...... uncorrected hearing loss, diet, age all weigh on cognitive issues.

It sucks when the children have or need to become the parents, but that is often just the way it is.

YOU asked; '...So how do I approach this situation as the eldest son as delicately as possible without hurting him and his pride and what is the best course of action?...

HE is not being delicate, he is hurting others, if he is proud of his current conduct or he's always acted this way I would NOT worry about that either!

It's tough!!!

IC-A

Re: The Old Man - Advice Needed [Re: High_Noon] #16275369 07/23/21
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I can certainly relate to your situation HN! And I’m sorry I cannot offer you any advice other than I know what you’re going thru. I understand fully!

People tell me to “hang in there!" I reply that hanging is not an option I relish.


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"Vertrou in God en die Mauser!"

Re: The Old Man - Advice Needed [Re: High_Noon] #16275511 07/23/21
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I wish I had some advice, I do not.

Bob said it well.


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Re: The Old Man - Advice Needed [Re: High_Noon] #16275535 07/23/21
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Possibly medicate him? Sit him down and talk. Otherwise may need to put him in a home or have someone stay with them?

Re: The Old Man - Advice Needed [Re: High_Noon] #16275560 07/23/21
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I'd show your post to your Dad's doctor and ask for his/her advice on how to handle the situation. If you can get the Dr. to agree that he needs to go to a home and that it would be best for both him and your Mom, it will make it much easier on you and your Mom. I think there is enough there to legally say that he is incapacitated and then get legal Power of Attorney. I'm sure if your Mom, you, and your brother can all attest that this is his behavior, then you can get it done. Certainly not the way you want your Mom to be living in her later years. Taking care of my 81 and 80 year old parents, I can relate. It is incredibly tough and fortunately, my Dad doesn't exhibit any of the behaviors of your Dad. I can only imagine how tough it is for the family. Good luck.

Re: The Old Man - Advice Needed [Re: High_Noon] #16275564 07/23/21
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I totally agree with test 1328. Get the legal POA and doctor diagnosis. Then assisted living if possible. Have your mom out with you for a nice extended visit. Aren't alot of mon's saints............................................. Good luck!

IC-B

Re: The Old Man - Advice Needed [Re: High_Noon] #16275569 07/23/21
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" Brother wants to get an attorney involved and transfer power of attorney to Mom."

Do this now, at least get a consult with the prospective attorney.

Like others said look after your mother.

Re: The Old Man - Advice Needed [Re: High_Noon] #16275576 07/23/21
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Good luck......as others said...Mom first

My 92 YO MIL still lives alone...15 minutes away

She has become a full time job for my wife

Have had her refrain from driving........


T R U M P W O N !
Re: The Old Man - Advice Needed [Re: High_Noon] #16275616 07/23/21
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Medicate.

Re: The Old Man - Advice Needed [Re: High_Noon] #16275618 07/23/21
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You are not going to have a "Come to Jesus" with him that will do any good in the long term, as what you are seeing is a decline in metal health.

Ask yourself this:


Does your dad lack the capacity to make informed decisions about his own medical treatment?


Is he able to, on his own, provide for himself? Is he "Gravely Disabled"?

Gravely disabled” means the person is unable to provide(on his own) for basic personal needs (food, clothing, shelter) or lacks insight into the need for treatment and unwillingness to comply with treatment that is likely to lead to an inability to provide for basic needs.

Would he be considered mentally ill?

Mentally ill” for example means a person, who as a result of a substantial disorder of thought, mood, memory, (perception of reality from watching nothing but Fox news, thinking that is 100% reality) etc, etc, which grossly impairs his judgment, behavior (wild behavioral swings), capacity to recognize and adapt to reality, requires care and treatment at a facility.


If this sounds accurate, then your father is mentally ill and at the very least needs to have a mental health evaluation. He of course will be on his best behavior, but if you have a private meeting beforehand with proof and examples of what he does, that will go a long ways towards giving a proper total picture to the mental health examiner so they can make an informed decision that is best for both your dad, and your mom.

Start writing stuff down in a behavior journal. It will be important.

Honestly it sounds like he has onset of dementia, and it is time for him to be treated. Your mom should not have to be stuck in an abusive hell. If he is being that abusive in front of his kids, what sort of behavioral outbursts are happening when you are not present.

Protect your mom, for both of their sakes.


THE CHAIR IS AGAINST THE WALL.

The Tikka T3 in .308 Winchester is the Glock 19 of the rifle world.
Re: The Old Man - Advice Needed [Re: High_Noon] #16275674 07/23/21
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High Noon;
Good morning sir, I'm sorry to read what you're having to deal with, truly I am.

My background in this subject was dealing with my late Mother who suffered from dementia for more than 3 years prior to her passing, my much loved Mother in law who suffered from dementia for 6 years prior to her passing and watching a good friend deal with his father who had Parkinson's and honestly his father was a friend to me as well.

The first step for me to keep my sanity was to gain the understanding that it wasn't really my mother that I was dealing with anymore. Truly it was still her body, but the hurtful words and actions weren't her - perhaps better said she wasn't responsible for them.

For me that wasn't an easy mental leap to make, but I really needed to do that in order to deal with it on a logical level and not an emotional one.

When I've talked to other children who have dealt with similar issues - such as my buddy with his father and talking just the other day to his mom - they reached the same conclusion and would simply say, "That wasn't really him anymore".

Up here we needed to get the patient "into the system" in order to get them into even a partial care facility. That means they'll be assessed for sure and like it sounds like your father can do, my Mother could somehow pull herself together and be a different person for many of those assessments.

We were blessed to have a young lady doctor who had about the best BS radar I've witnessed in a doctor and who cared for the patient and their family. She figured it out in a couple sessions and got things moving for Mom's placement.

As others have noted, your first priority must be to protect your mother, but at the same time getting help for your father who I believe from what you've said is no longer mentally "responsible/functioning properly".

I'm sorry you have to deal with this, we were the ones like your brother dealing directly with it and it's not simple being there or being far away like my siblings were and feeling torn and frustrated where they were.

I hope that was useful to you or someone out there. I wouldn't wish this on anyone.

If you feel I can be of any further use, please feel free to drop me a line.

Dwayne


The most important stuff in life isn't "stuff"

Re: The Old Man - Advice Needed [Re: Jim_Conrad] #16275699 07/23/21
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This.

Originally Posted by Jim_Conrad
Take care of your mom....first.



Also, Mac's advise is solid.

In Washington State, it isn't a crime to be rude, homeless or mentally infirm. Hence, it's almost impossible to compel someone to do something against their will unless you have a court order.

If you're headed down the path of institutionalizing him, gather facts and present them in a court of law.

Otherwise, you're spinning your tail and nothing will be accomplished except you getting ever more frustrated.


"One man with courage makes a majority." Andrew Jackson
"All gun control is racist." Colin Noir
Re: The Old Man - Advice Needed [Re: High_Noon] #16275711 07/23/21
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Hidden video cam

provide results to his primary care physician

I don't walk out my door these days without assuming I'm on camera. And it would truly suck if a guy couldn't live in his home without thinking of cameras.
But if I was worried about my mom I'd do it

Last edited by johnw; 07/23/21.

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If you could reason with a Democrat there wouldn't be any Democrats...
Re: The Old Man - Advice Needed [Re: High_Noon] #16275757 07/23/21
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How long have they been married? At their age has it ever occurred to you that if your mom was so upset about their marriage she would have left him long ago. Sounds to me that you kids are all one sided in the mess.

Phil

Re: The Old Man - Advice Needed [Re: High_Noon] #16275771 07/23/21
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Sounds to me like Phil is a miserable kghunt....as usual.

Re: The Old Man - Advice Needed [Re: High_Noon] #16275773 07/23/21
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What is happening with your dad, is a by product of Stress. Where he gets the inability to deal with the simplest of things that can put him in a stress mode.
This makes his anger, come out of nowhere and his temper to immediately blow. Having Fox on all day is not helping at all, and is adding fuel to the flames.
Fox is no different than any other news outlet, they live for the shock factor to increase ratings... Same with "talk" radio... they claim to keep you "informed", which is instead constant bashing of the world you live in, and keeps one's stress and followed by anger high.

Leaving doors to cabinets or the frig, etc is forgetfulness, but also extenuating what probably of his having ADHD and ADD. Was your dad full of an A Type personality and having a strong drive most of his life, having the stress of providing for you, your brother and mother? Giving each of you a lot in life along the way? Now he is not needed so much by anyone any more? The source of the problem is what is going on inside your dad's head. His world is changing, from what his life has always been, to something to where he has essentially been put out to pasture and is not dealing with it well. HIs world is now going in the total opposite direction. I'd dare see he has spent a life time being an accomplished person.. Suddenly he wakes up one day and no longer is. He has to rely on others, where the rest of his life beforehand has been people relying on him.

No where in the responses above, has anyone addressed what is going on in your dad's head and world.. Its just protect mom and throw dad in a Nursing home, memory care unit, take away his ability or need to address simple daily things in his life. His anger and temper is pushed further by people's reaction to his frustrations bursting out, just like a little kid will act out. We understand that in our society, but we don't understand when older adults do like that.

your dad is not receiving any love, or support at all.. he's always seeming to be the bad guy. No one needs him any more, or else they are relying on him now more than ever... greater than the ability for him to handle it all. He has issues that need to be addressed, not him being rejected in response all the time. In our society, we can understand machines wear out, but people are not allowed to... especially when it is someone who people have relied upon so much for so long.. then suddenly that is gone. They are concerned with their lives, because they can manage it on their own, and dear old dad and husband is no longer really needed.. His internal guilt from his own incidents of exploding at the one's he loves most, just causes him to act out more over anger and frustration with it.

I know what the solutions are, but I doubt few would understand them, because your dad is being judged by others perspectives, and no one is bothering to try to figure out his. Simple solutions, when is the last time you or your mom or brother, have put your arms around your dad when he is starting off on a tempertantrum and just told him you love him? or thank him for all that he has done to contribute to your lives? you might try it and see what you get.

Your dad is going thru incidents of feeling useless any more, not being able to do what he use to be able to do, things important to him most of his life are changing, and suddenly what was status quo is now wrong.....he probably is a person who loves his country, and then is having WOKE, BLM, Antifa, democRats and everything else so screwed up shoved down his throat.. acting out is when it has put his mind on overload on top of all the other experiences he is dealing with, where he is no longer what he use to be, but having to deal with what he has become.

Quit pushing dad away, and thinking everything is his fault, and if you have love for him, it needs to be shown....

most people will look at their mom differently, going thru all of this, than they do their dad... its back to society's standards we have been living our entire life...Mothers and children are more important than good old White Guys who had to supply everything, and a "REAL MAN" was suppose to do it, be always self sacrificing and never expect anything in return for it.

I'll bet my bottom dollar that is where your dad is at. and sure, he can be Mr Nice Giuy, when he is at the doctor's office, because he is away from the stress of his daily environment for a brief time.. the doctor's office is showing care and concern about him.... as soon as he walks out the door, he's back in the same place... Everything wrong in the world is his fault and he's nothing but a POS to those around him, that he has loved the most for a life time.
He gets away from that, his stress drops like a rock....

No one is seeing what he is seeing... no one around him is able to "walk a mile in his shoes" and understand the perspective he sees....


"Minus the killings, Washington has one of the lowest crime rates in the Country" Marion Barry, Mayor of Wash DC

“Owning guns is not a right. If it were a right, it would be in the Constitution.” ~Alexandria Ocasio Cortez

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