Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire The Old Man - Advice Needed

Wtf

You are an idiot

You need to make a decision first: Is that still your dad? Simple as that (yeah I know!). If it is your Dad, then worry about Mom.

If it's not your Dad due to decline in mental capacity, take the steps to protect him and your Mom:
- See lawyer advice about power of attorney
- Seek Medical advice about in home care, or a home, depending on things. You mentioned you Mom wants him in a home, that right there should tell you where you should start.

Realize no matter what you do, the short term flash-point is going to be huge. But the longer this drags, the worse it will get, if he is suffering from some type of mental decline, it WILL NOT get better and it sounds like your Mom has reached the point where she's asking for help.

I was a Special Investigator with TEXAS Department of Family Services, and my dad struggled with Alzheimer's for about 15 years, the last 4 or so in a "group home". So, i have seen this from a multitude of facets... I would consider an anonymous call to the elder care hotline pointing out the abuse to your mom...an "unencumbered" set of eyes on the situation may be exactly what is needed...if nothing else, the DFPS can provide a referral to a doc/specialist that can provide insight. Make no mistake, there are problems with involving the government...but you also gain valuable "uninvolved" opinions and observations that can go a long way towards convincing attorneys, other docs and family of the actual situation and all it's complexities...luck to you and your family...you are on my prayer list...

Thanks to you all for the advice and insight into the situation. I will give it some thought and respond this evening, if not sooner.

High Noon, with respect, you really knew the answer before you asked. It's just that the path forward is going to be unpleasant and is kind of hard to face, Guardianship now. You and your brother really should be the ones doing this. Get with a lawyer who does this and make it happen. Mom will be even more conflicted than you, so spare her some of the guilt. Get his doctor the full story so he understands. Maybe meds can help and maybe not. The idea of home health care is a good one and home care agencies have social workers who can help when the time comes for placement. That time has probably already arrived. Hug him if you want, but don't expect to " love him out of this". Oh yea, an ass kicking for him is really a stupid idea. He may be a SOB, but his mental decline is nobody's fault. It just is what it is. Sometimes #$@&** happens and somebody's gotta deal with it. This time that somebody is you. Best wishes in this difficult time.

Sorry to hear of all that
My mother suffered with Parkinson's for the last
few years of her life, and it's as hard on the relatives
as it was her. I cared for her until I couldn't any
longer, and it took a toll on me mentally and physically.
She started out with periods of weakness and some
mental spells, then went on to full on hallucinations
and combative behavior. Elbowed my nose bloody
at one point. I suspect she had some mini strokes
although the medical people never said so
She finally had to be hospitalized on Christmas day
and stayed 2 weeks before being released into
home hospice care. I managed to help her along
several more months until she finally passed.

The only advice I can give is to have way more
insurance than you think you need. Her last days
took every dime I could muster and more.
Don't let an elderly person handle the legal
and financial business. If one of the relatives
can't do it legally and ethically, get a lawyer
or administrator
There's nothing easy about the whole mess and
I hope anyone that has to deal with it has much
strength and the ability to make tough decisions

Good Luck and prayers for you

we have faced a similiar situation in the family and sadly theres really no way to solve it without someone getting butthurt

what we did was install those camera things like the ring doorbell discretely in the main rooms, kitchen living room etc. made the family member watch their own behavior several times then used the video to show the doctors and ultimately get the old man medication etc

i will find out what cameras they are, if youd like. you could even watch and hear in real time on your phone whenever you wanted and gave mom(who knew the cameras was there) a "safe" phrase she could use if she need us to call in law or someone.

bad thing is now the old man has passed and i am afraid my wife has installed them here to spy on me!

Ha, that is funny ... I think.

All the ancient old guys I meet seem pretty nice. I mean Wabigoon seems like a hell-uv-a nice guy!

Sorry to hear of this trouble in your life.

My only advice to you is to NOT go through the process to give your Mom power of attorney. At her age, one of you boys need to take on that responsibility.

There is no "good" solution. Pick the best of the bad ones and live with it. I am always loathe to involve social services but it is what they are there for.

HighNoon, I wish you and your brother all the best on the journey and decisions you will have to make with your Dad.

I am going through something very similar with my mother. She is older and she can put the front up when with a doctor. However, to family she is poison mean. I was able to get her to have me declared for Power of Attorney and Executor. Making the move to execute the power of attorney is a very difficult decision as at that point I would need to be ready to take over her living responsibilities and I am not mentally ready for that struggle.

What I have found out for dealing with placement of seniors up here is troubling if the parent is difficult. Basically, in either public or private facilities if the person placed is not found to be mentally incompetent (Alzheimer’s, Parkinson’s, dementia) and they are placed in a facility -- if they are found to be disruptive to staff or the facility operation then you are given a notice that they must leave and are in your care. Basically, pick them up outside the building as we do not want them here anymore. However, if they are mentally incompetent then they can be placed in a secure ward. So, we as a family are in a waiting period.

This maybe something you want to check on re the rules for placement in facilities in your area.

While we are waiting, I document all discussion, issues, changes in direction etc to show the pattern of change in her mental health. This is a joint undertaking with a sister so we can show non bias. I also was able to arrange for joint signing on the bank account so I can track how she is managing her finances --- bill payments etc to avoid any creditor issues.

Hope some of this helps and I wish you the best. Not an easy time dealing with a parent that is not aging gracefully.

You, brother and Mom need to all sit down and talk with the doctor together and tell him what happens once Dad is out of Doc's office. Record the activity Dad does. Contact your local Crisis/Mental Health folks and see what options they are to help out. It may come down to an involuntary commitment to the hospital if Dad is "a threat to himself or others" Maybe if he gets on his meds it will resolve everything. Also, sit down with Dad and have a blunt heart to heart. If Dad respects you and brother, you need to be very firm and tell him to knock the crap off.

High Noon, here is a video by Dr. Natalie Edmonds, PhD. Geropsycholgist, who specializes in the various dementia disorders. Her many videos are short and were very, very helpful to me when my wife was suffering from Alzheimer's dementia. Very good information and advice to those who have loved ones with dementia.



Best of luck. It is a difficult disorder to suffer, and difficult for those who try to care for an afflicted loved one.

L.W.

Is your Dad this mean, when it’s just you and him??

I’m not trying to defend him, just trying to identify if it’s really just “him”, or a combination of a contankerous old fart who just wants to be left alone and watch some TV, a diminishing ability to button his lip, and a woman who thinks they’re 20 years younger, and has a never-ending list of “honey-do’s” and nags that don’t stop for a guy who is just plain worn out, and doesn’t care about the “little things” (housekeeping/etc) in his last few years.

With that out of the way, if it is just HIM, and he really is “exploding” all the time on your mother without reason/provocation, then it IS time to have a sit down with your Mom and other siblings, and determine how much more she can tolerate. From there, it’s either medication, or time to go to a care facility. A home health nurse can help in the interim, and their documentation of “bad behavior” might even help, if he’s putting on an “act” when at the Doc’s office.

It’s sad, but there’s only so much you or your Mom can do, and making her miserable/possibly endangering her with him around needs to be avoided. It also lets your Mom have “good” memories of your Father, rather than looking back on the last years of his life as an abusive nightmare, and seeing him at his worst, day in and day out, for the next 1/2/3 years..

In the meantime, give her some breaks. Take her home with you or she can stay with one of your siblings for a few days, here and there. Stock their pantry, for Dad, and tell him you’ll have some food delivered to him for a big dinner. Can he handle a few days on his own??

An old man that “just wants to watch a little TV” is a farce

That’s usually ALL THEY DO, my old is 72 lives by himself about 2 miles up the highway.

I go up there see why in the hell he is not answering his house phone or his cell phone. The friggin FOX News is on volume 100. JFC

If it aint that, he’s got Stagecoach or Lee Van Cleef on pew pew pew...for the umpteenth time.

I tell him all the time, “Pop, your brain is going to turn into oatmeal”

He doesn’t like coming down to our place because we don’t run all that TV news crap. I have to keep at least a once a day check-in with him so he doesn’t go full-blown Ice Creamaggeddon like other old folks. Old people and the dayum ice cream.

Sheesh

Thanks to you all for your suggestions. I appreciate that many of you shared your experiences, many of which I found insightful.

I may have given a wrong impression as far as his mental capacity is concerned. He is still mostly all there and is largely still the Father he always has been, though he thinking methodology remains a complete mystery to me, as it has always been. My father does indeed exhibit the poor behavior I outlined in my initial post, but he does not have dementia nor is he mentally ill or incompetent – but that’s a judgement call on my part. Yes, I and my family are witnessing his mental decline; however, his argumentative behavior, yelling and verbal abuse towards my mother is nothing new - it's been going on most of my life, but it has definitely gotten worse over the last several years, as have all of the symptoms I mentioned. I don't believe he is yet ready for an assisted memory care living facility, though some in-home care a few times a week would certainly help Mom. The family is certainly getting closer to needing an involuntary conservatorship or revoking his power of attorney, which as executor, would fall to me.

As far as mini-strokes are concerned, we have seen no evidence of such. He sees the doctors on a regular basis and they have not expressed any concerns regarding mini strokes, nor is there a family history of such. Both my folks are under stress and it’s difficult to assess which parent is suffering the most, but I imagine Mom has it pretty tough dealing with him. Giving her some time off is a good idea.

Yes, he is sick and not in his historically “right” mind, but as I stated I don’t think an assisted care facility is the answer at this point. Visiting the folks as I am, I’m sure I don’t see the full picture, but I believe I get a pretty danged good picture of what’s going on here. I don’t believe it gets much worse when I’m gone. I did lay down the law with him before my young daughter arrived here to join me for 11 days. He tried to walk away from me saying he didn’t want to hear it when I told him I wasn’t going to tolerate his nasty and mean behavior when she was here. He heard me and for the most part limited the yelling and nastiness while she was here, so he is capable of modifying his behavior. He needs to be conscious of it though. It occurred to me that many or even most times he doesn’t even realize he doing it – being so obstinate – it’s like it has become second nature for him to act that way.

As several have stated, having a come to Jesus conversation with him will likely accomplish very little to nothing. I’ve had several such conversations with him in the past and they accomplished nothing and usually resulted in a yelling match between us. A rational, calm conversation with him regarding his behavior is virtually impossible, but can be done on rare occasions.

Regarding medication, he’s on several, but stopped his Parkinson’s meds.

Seafire: Jon, your post is almost spot-on and the only one which considers his perspective. Many of your comments are true and I know from personal experience how difficult it is to accept the fact that I cannot do many of the things I was able to do in my youth – before my back problems. I know this has been very difficult for Dad as well. I do compliment him when deserved, which seems to be less and less with the passing of years, but I know he appreciates it when I do. More often, though, his decisions make things more difficult to handle and create almost insurmountable and sometimes expensive problems – and many times he knows it, which fuels his temper as you stated. Your simple solutions are good ideas and I have, to some extent, done most of them, and yes, they do help, but only for a short while, but not for any meaningful length of time. We may not show it on a daily basis, but he knows we love him and do show it periodically. Thanks for your insightful post.

Before I posted this thread, I really didn’t know the answer, and I still don’t know, but based on everyone’s comments, I am formulating a plan. We will start a log and perhaps begin to compile recordings. At the very least a consult with an attorney is in order so that we will be prepared when the final straw falls.

I do speak with Mom often and I will continue to do so. I will also continue to discuss the issue with her and my brother, since he is on the front lines, so to speak.

fburgtx: No, he is not this mean when it’s just the two of us, but he can be. He usually refrains because he knows I won’t tolerate it. Mom is easier to push around, no matter her threats. She’s just a little old lady, but she can definitely call up the ferocity when needed.

Yes, she does have a lengthy list and she’s an accomplished nagger, but that’s largely due to the fact that we were hit by the tornado on 10/20/19 and Dad can’t make a fuggin’ decision on any of it and when he does, it’s often, but not always, the wrong or a bad decision. Prior to the tornado it took him nearly 2 years to decide on a fuggin’ garage door! I don’t believe she is in any physical danger, though. She has to nag him though, if she didn’t, he would have died from Diabetes long ago.


Yup. My exact experience with Dad.

Thanks again for everyone’s comments, suggestions, advice and well-wishes.

With all due respect, from the limited information, there’s a strong possibility your pops is a phugging narcissist. Might even have Narcissistic Personality Disorder. Your mom probably shoulda bailed decades ago.

Read up on it. If he is, phugg his pride, cut bait. Better late than never.