I need to reiterate that I posted this for input only. Nothing has been written in stone. We are not using an off the shelf AR barrel. Shilen supplies blanks to Nez Rongero's specs. Disregard money in this build as it isn't the issue. I have 2 custom Service Rifle legal comp. rifles and a couple "self Defense" AR rifles for my wife and I, but we have a couple shotguns and pistols also. I am not an AR savvy guy and this is the reason for the post. I hope you understand where I'm coming from and appreciate your input.
Butch,
Will this rifle be uses primarily for sniping, or door kicking?
Shilen makes a great product, but the length, weight, and balance of the barrel need to reflect how it will be used.
In the sniper role you can get away with a longer heavier barrel since your nephew could expect to spend a good bit of time behind it while it sits on a bipod.
If however this will be used more as a patrol rifle, then an optimum solution includes a lighter, shorter, more weight back contour for quicker easier handling.
If Shilen will make Nez any profile he wants, that's great. I'd shoot for a profile around 1.6 pounds or less for a 16" barrel (and proportionally less if you go shorter, pinned and welded). I find that for guys like you and me who demand great accuracy out of all our rifles regardless of their roll, this weight range provides enough meat added stiffness and heat management and perform well on timed drills. Of course my 3rd daughters 1.1 pounds pencil weight build is very fast handling and an absolute joy to shoot.
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
I need to reiterate that I posted this for input only......We are not using an off the shelf AR barrel.
Well if you want input, I think you should not be so dogmatic about having a custom contoured Shilen barrel and listen to what people who point rifles at other people for a living are telling you is important.
Sorry I pissed you off. That certainly wasn't my intent. At the advice of you and others, the barrel will be 16" and contoured for lighter weight. Just because I want a Shilen barrel doesn't mean that it will be short and heavy. What is a lighter butt stock that we can find? We are changing to another trigger also. Bluedreaux, PM an email address and I will send photos and so forth about the gas block so you can give your opinion about it. Like most of you I do have an ego, but I will not let it get in the way of this build.
The last video is the most impressive. Shoot your barrel out, they'll replace it. Gas rings go bad, they'll replace them. Use your gun in a justified defensive shooting and it's taken for evidence, they'll replace it. House burns down and your rifle goes up in flames, they'll replace it.
The last video is the most impressive. Shoot your barrel out, they'll replace it. Gas rings go bad, they'll replace them. Use your gun in a justified defensive shooting and it's taken for evidence, they'll replace it. House burns down and your rifle goes up in flames, they'll replace it.
Definitely there are options for any barrel configuration when you are not limited to the off the shelf barrels. I have cranked our barrels for different purposes, from match rifles 0.936 gas blocks with +2 gas system to finish at 26 to lightweight carbine gas system. Chambered a few SPR 18 inch with rifle gas Even 18 inch 6.5CM to 26 in the 308 AR platform. Of course each takes a different approach to make sure they are reliable and safe.
Chamber wise, I have reamers ranging from zero freebores to .170 for different purposes, and with different neck ODs. For Butch's project I would most likely use a 0.025 freebore, comparable to a CLE. That's what I use on my MK12 SPRs Mod 0, and also for my friends. These are all running AEM5s cans. They shoot real well, one guy aced the pop up qual just screwing around. Took them to 750 MK262s, no problem. I figure with Butch's project they can shoot the 69s through 77s match ammo and they should be good.
Have to admit, I have not done as many short barrels ones as I do full blown NM competition 20 inch service rifle barrels.
Here is one I did for a butter bar, 16 inch with 15 inch SLR handguard. Configuration was suggested by his Dad who was an ODA-x officer. It was a pain to modify the handguard and the bottom of the flip up clamp type BUIS. I used a zero freebore on this one as it will be feeding it with M855 A1s, occasional M855s till the Army quit issuing them. The barrel has 1 inch inside the handguard leading to the gas block.
As far gas block loosening, even on clamp type is no issue. We learned a lot when shooting A2s in competition. We drilled and tapped the pin holes in the A2 A frame so we can adjust/zero the rifle for no wind with the rear sight on MZ. To secure the front assembly we use the opposing set screws to align and clamp, them drip 290 Locktite. That green Locktite will hold the alignment and can take the heat. It can survive in a rattle battle multiple strings in practice. That is dumping 30 plus rounds on E silhouette at 600 yarda in 50 seconds. 28 plus hits in 50 seconds is a lot of fun.
Back to Butch,'s build, I am not worried about it going single shot due to loosening gas block. Rebarreling rifles with 290 Locktited gas blocks takes heat to loosen them.
Last edited by Bamban; 07/26/21.
USAF 1972-1978 HM XC Service Rifle Distinguish Badge 1234 P100
If you mechanically lock it to the barrel with pins or with a dimple-set screw then it’ll work. Clamping with loctite can and eventually will come loose. The best armorers in the country for fighting rifles all agree on this. There’s a reason the mil-spec calls for taper pins on a fighting rifle. I don’t know how hot you have to get 290loctite but a single mag dump isn’t “hot”.
Even if the WOA railed gas block is pinned in place, it’a still not a good choice. It’s too big and a rail won’t fit over it. A longer rail helps when shooting off barricades so the barrel won’t contact the barricade. And it gives you more light mounting options.
If y’all want advice, it’s that the WOA railed gas block is detrimental to a fighting rifle.
Chamber it in 5.56.
There’s no guarantee that they’ll be shooting between 69-77 grains, and they’ll almost certainly never actually shoot a 69 or 77. He’s going to be operating in a different world than that. Ammo might range anywhere from 55grain surplus to 75grain duty ammo, there’s just no telling. I’d bet that 95% of what he ever fired will be 3moa fmj.
It's a looser chamber with a sharper rifling lead. Looser chambers are more reliable with a variety of ammo in a variety of conditions. I don't think you'll ever shoot single load bullets in it (80SRA, etc) and I believe the sharper angle leads are a tiny bit more wear resistant.
A neighborhood manufacturer swears there's not enough difference in accuracy between a Wylde and a 5.56 to comment about when using mag length ammo with jump-tolerant bullets. All the reports I've seen on their barrels (Wilson kinda barrels chambered by them) indicate they shoot very well, right around MOA and possibly less, if you can believe anyone on the web.
If you mechanically lock it to the barrel with pins or with a dimple-set screw then it’ll work. Clamping with loctite can and eventually will come loose. The best armorers in the country for fighting rifles all agree on this. There’s a reason the mil-spec calls for taper pins on a fighting rifle. I don’t know how hot you have to get 290loctite but a single mag dump isn’t “hot”.
Even if the WOA railed gas block is pinned in place, it’a still not a good choice. It’s too big and a rail won’t fit over it. A longer rail helps when shooting off barricades so the barrel won’t contact the barricade. And it gives you more light mounting options.
If y’all want advice, it’s that the WOA railed gas block is detrimental to a fighting rifle.
Chamber it in 5.56.
There’s no guarantee that they’ll be shooting between 69-77 grains, and they’ll almost certainly never actually shoot a 69 or 77. He’s going to be operating in a different world than that. Ammo might range anywhere from 55grain surplus to 75grain duty ammo, there’s just no telling. I’d bet that 95% of what he ever fired will be 3moa fmj.
We've run rattle battle training with our A2s and A4s with multiple 30 rounds of precise shooting prone at 600 never once we had any gas block come loose. The screws on the clamp type and the block itself locktited never had any issues. Back when I was shooting 10K plus rounds a year, different application obviously, come rebarreling at 3 a year, releasing the front sight base from the barrel have to put a propane torch till the green Locktite starts smoking, then tap it out.
I suppose whoever would use this rifle will probably not going to use up a standard combat load, nor will run up more rounds in an encounter than we did in one training session.
Of course the final config will be settled once I chance to chat with the end user.
USAF 1972-1978 HM XC Service Rifle Distinguish Badge 1234 P100
