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I'm putting together a rifle for family that is in law enforcement. Their furnished ones are well used and not cared for at all. May be a little overkill, but you take care of a Rolls better than a Fiat.
Shilen 7.5 twist in 16 or 18"
Stiller Predator lower

A4urcoM4 A4 Upper Receiver with M4 Ramps, incl ejection port cover and

forward assist kit

1cba Complete Bolt Carrier Assembly (.223/5.56)
1chc Charge Handle Complete
1TR12.6M White Oak Trooper Rail w/ M-LOK Length 12.6" (Barrel Nut Included)
1gts Gas Tube Standard Rifle Length
1gbsr750r WOA Service Rifle Railed Gas Block .750 (Black Nitride Finish) with

x-long gastube roll pin



1beWOA White Oak Competition Barrel Extension (M4)

SEE ENCLOSED INFORMATION


x1fh Flash Suppressor Threaded 5/8-24 TPI, with crush washer
3lpkE Enhanced Lower Parts Kit with Nitride Pivot and Takedown Pins (less

trigger)

3gstri Geissele Automatics Super Tricon
3UBRgen1-blk Magpul AR-15 UBR Gen 1 Stock - Black

Last edited by butchlambert1; 07/24/21.
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Butch,
The named parts all look good to me, Shilen, Stiller, White Oak, Geissele, Magpul, and when a family members life is on the line, there is no such thing as overkill.

Besides, as gun people often we are not the best at telling people we care, we show it in ways like this.


You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.

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Nez Rongero , my buddy, will be the smith. My Grand Niece and her husband are in law enforcement. Molly is an IRS Criminal Enforcement officer and husband is PD officer. Thank God they are in Texas, at least for the present.

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What's a criminal enforcement officer ?


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Butch, are you open to a few suggestions or are the parts already ordered?


Originally Posted by SBTCO
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Originally Posted by 284LUVR
What's a criminal enforcement officer ?


They deal with the gangs, cartel, and such. She is not in the accounting office, but has a masters in accounting and is a CPA. I think you know what they do.

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Originally Posted by Bluedreaux
Butch, are you open to a few suggestions or are the parts already ordered?



Sure!

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Originally Posted by butchlambert1
Originally Posted by Bluedreaux
Butch, are you open to a few suggestions or are the parts already ordered?



Sure!


16" at the max length. Even those are hard to handle getting in and out of a car. The lighter the profile the better. It'll be carried a LOT more than it's shot and if it's heavy it just won't get carried or trained with like it should. Mid-gas for a 16" barrel, but that's probably all that's available.

I'd opt for a gas block that's either pinned, or at least dimpled. We've seen those exposed clamp on gas blocks come loose. I'm not sure I've ever seen one survive a rifle school, but can't say for sure. Dimpled / pinned and covered with a rail is a much safer bet. Gas blocks are a major failure point.

I'd go a bit longer on the rail. Looks like WOA offers that rail in 14.6". It'll allow him to mount a light further forward to minimize shadowing and make shooting off a barricade a little easier.

The UBR stock is heavy. Again, I'd try to keep it as light as possible.

And have him check to see if his department has any special restrictions. That Tricon trigger may be too light (we have a 4# minimum). And just random restrictions that some cop working at a range thinks make sense. For a long time we couldn't carry anything that wasn't factory assembled. Well-intentioned family members would buy really good rifles that couldn't be used.


Originally Posted by SBTCO
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I understand your points. His dept has given an OK on our list of items. Length and weight is important in my way of thinking also.

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FWIW, I agree with most of Blue's comments & will add that except for pretty exclusive use along the lines of a dedicated DMR rifle, it would never, ever be a rifle gas gun for your stated purpose.

YMMV

MM

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Originally Posted by MontanaMan
FWIW, I agree with most of Blue's comments & will add that except for pretty exclusive use along the lines of a dedicated DMR rifle, it would never, ever be a rifle gas gun for your stated purpose.

YMMV

MM


I understand that it will be thrown around, but is anything in the build to keep it from being a good weapon for their purpose. I'm listening as this is not my expertise.

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Shilen is known for match barrels, most are not chambered for true 5.56 NATO ammo and it could have pressure problems. Might be just over gassed or it could lose a primer and tie up the trigger, it’s happened.

Railed gas blocks won’t fit under a rail where it’ll be protected. If it’s not pinned it can get knocked around and turn into a manually operated single shot.

For an LE gun, think Colt 6720 type and work from there instead of starting with a target rig.

Or if a basic Colt is not what your after, try this.
https://sionicsweaponsystems.com/lawenforcement/patrol-rifle-three/
Or here
https://sonsoflibertygw.com/shop/sons-of-liberty-m4-patrol-rifle/

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Originally Posted by butchlambert1


I understand that it will be thrown around, but is anything in the build to keep it from being a good weapon for their purpose. I'm listening as this is not my expertise.


Well, I kinda think that your mind is already made up & you're just looking for confirmation, so it is what it is, but a rifle gas gun will never have the cast iron reliability & margin of error for conditions & variable ammo of a mid-gas or a carbine gassed gun.

Hence my comment about rifle gas, & I like rifle gas & have several, but those are purpose built rifles, not your, be-all, do-all LEO of home defense rigs.

If you really want to see what a LEO rifle should look like & it's specs, go to Geiselle's website & review their 16" LEO designated guns.................that's pretty close to what that kind of gun should look like, maybe even back the barrel down to 14.5".

But, please, carry on as you will.

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For LEO use, I'd take the Toyota of rifles over Rolls or Fiat. I want simple and dead nuts reliable. It wouldn't be pieced together in someone's garage and intended for bench use or decked out with all kinds of trick [bleep] (funky gas block/gas tube, match trigger). It also wouldn't weigh 10lbs bare.

I'd be on the hunt for:

1: Sons of Liberty Gun Works Patrol

2: Geiselle Super Duty

3: Colt 6720 or 6920

4: Rock River Tactical Entry (I was issued one for years and it was flawless).

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Originally Posted by butchlambert1
Originally Posted by MontanaMan
FWIW, I agree with most of Blue's comments & will add that except for pretty exclusive use along the lines of a dedicated DMR rifle, it would never, ever be a rifle gas gun for your stated purpose.

YMMV

MM


I understand that it will be thrown around, but is anything in the build to keep it from being a good weapon for their purpose. I'm listening as this is not my expertise.


Based on my experience, I'd say that it's definitely a "good weapon", but not a "good weapon for the purpose". Although well intentioned, the money is being spent in the wrong places.

He needs a rifle light enough to carry for hours, that'll shoot 2MOA with duty ammo, a light with all the candela, and a quality optic (preferably with magnification).

Ditch the $480 barrel and get him a $180 barrel and $300 light.
Trade the Super Tricon for a 4.5# SSA, or better yet a $120 G2S or $60 ALGish trigger and put the money toward an LPVO.
Make it a 16" mid-length, or a pinned 14.5"-13.7".


Originally Posted by SBTCO
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Originally Posted by Bluedreaux
Originally Posted by butchlambert1
Originally Posted by MontanaMan
FWIW, I agree with most of Blue's comments & will add that except for pretty exclusive use along the lines of a dedicated DMR rifle, it would never, ever be a rifle gas gun for your stated purpose.

YMMV

MM


I understand that it will be thrown around, but is anything in the build to keep it from being a good weapon for their purpose. I'm listening as this is not my expertise.


Based on my experience, I'd say that it's definitely a "good weapon", but not a "good weapon for the purpose". Although well intentioned, the money is being spent in the wrong places.

He needs a rifle light enough to carry for hours, that'll shoot 2MOA with duty ammo, a light with all the candela, and a quality optic (preferably with magnification).

Ditch the $480 barrel and get him a $180 barrel and $300 light.
Trade the Super Tricon for a 4.5# SSA, or better yet a $120 G2S or $60 ALGish trigger and put the money toward an LPVO.
Make it a 16" mid-length, or a pinned 14.5"-13.7".


Butch,
Blue, as always, offers some great advise worth taking.
The Brownells version of the G2S is my default trigger for this type of build.
For a barrel, I'd split the difference and go with the Criterion Core Series, mid-gas barrel in the length of your choice in the 13.9" to 16" range. They are button rifled, chrome lined, very accurate, made to handle high round counts, and well balanced to be carried all day.

Alternatively you could save a few buck and look at something by Ballistics Advantage in their Hanson Profile. They are stainless barrels, come with a pinned low profile gas block, provide good accuracy for the money, and are balanced to be carried all day.

There a couple other items not mentioned that personally, I upgrade on tactical rifles.

1. Charging Handle. Either BCM, or Radian, preferably ambidextrous.
2. Ambidextrous selector switch.
3. Sling. A good modern 2 point such as the Magpul Multi-Mission Series.

In the OP, for a muzzle device, you mentioned a flash suppressor, but it didn't say which one. They are not all equal. Montana Man knows some makes and models worth serious consideration.


You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.

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I need to reiterate that I posted this for input only. Nothing has been written in stone. We are not using an off the shelf AR barrel. Shilen supplies blanks to Nez Rongero's specs. Disregard money in this build as it isn't the issue. I have 2 custom Service Rifle legal comp. rifles and a couple "self Defense" AR rifles for my wife and I, but we have a couple shotguns and pistols also. I am not an AR savvy guy and this is the reason for the post.
I hope you understand where I'm coming from and appreciate your input.

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Originally Posted by Bluedreaux
Originally Posted by butchlambert1
Originally Posted by MontanaMan
FWIW, I agree with most of Blue's comments & will add that except for pretty exclusive use along the lines of a dedicated DMR rifle, it would never, ever be a rifle gas gun for your stated purpose.

YMMV

MM


I understand that it will be thrown around, but is anything in the build to keep it from being a good weapon for their purpose. I'm listening as this is not my expertise.


Based on my experience, I'd say that it's definitely a "good weapon", but not a "good weapon for the purpose". Although well intentioned, the money is being spent in the wrong places.

He needs a rifle light enough to carry for hours, that'll shoot 2MOA with duty ammo, a light with all the candela, and a quality optic (preferably with magnification).

Ditch the $480 barrel and get him a $180 barrel and $300 light.
Trade the Super Tricon for a 4.5# SSA, or better yet a $120 G2S or $60 ALGish trigger and put the money toward an LPVO.
Make it a 16" mid-length, or a pinned 14.5"-13.7".






The optics and sling will be their choice as that is their part of this. Fortunately this project is not to save money in one area to put it someplace else. I want it to be a great rifle that is purpose built for their use.
Thanks

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Originally Posted by butchlambert1
I need to reiterate that I posted this for input only......We are not using an off the shelf AR barrel.


Well if you want input, I think you should not be so dogmatic about having a custom contoured Shilen barrel and listen to what people who point rifles at other people for a living are telling you is important.


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Originally Posted by butchlambert1
Nez Rongero , my buddy, will be the smith. My Grand Niece and her husband are in law enforcement. Molly is an IRS Criminal Enforcement officer and husband is PD officer. Thank God they are in Texas, at least for the present.


For those of you who are not familiar with Nez....and some of you may recognize the name just below his:


[Linked Image from marchscopes.com]


You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.

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Originally Posted by butchlambert1
I need to reiterate that I posted this for input only. Nothing has been written in stone. We are not using an off the shelf AR barrel. Shilen supplies blanks to Nez Rongero's specs. Disregard money in this build as it isn't the issue. I have 2 custom Service Rifle legal comp. rifles and a couple "self Defense" AR rifles for my wife and I, but we have a couple shotguns and pistols also. I am not an AR savvy guy and this is the reason for the post.
I hope you understand where I'm coming from and appreciate your input.


Butch,

Will this rifle be uses primarily for sniping, or door kicking?


Shilen makes a great product, but the length, weight, and balance of the barrel need to reflect how it will be used.

In the sniper role you can get away with a longer heavier barrel since your nephew could expect to spend a good bit of time behind it while it sits on a bipod.

If however this will be used more as a patrol rifle, then an optimum solution includes a lighter, shorter, more weight back contour for quicker easier handling.

If Shilen will make Nez any profile he wants, that's great. I'd shoot for a profile around 1.6 pounds or less for a 16" barrel (and proportionally less if you go shorter, pinned and welded). I find that for guys like you and me who demand great accuracy out of all our rifles regardless of their roll, this weight range provides enough meat added stiffness and heat management and perform well on timed drills. Of course my 3rd daughters 1.1 pounds pencil weight build is very fast handling and an absolute joy to shoot.


You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.

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Nothing against anyone but target guys have different needs than LE guys. So build what you want, you were going to anyway.

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Originally Posted by Bluedreaux
Originally Posted by butchlambert1
I need to reiterate that I posted this for input only......We are not using an off the shelf AR barrel.


Well if you want input, I think you should not be so dogmatic about having a custom contoured Shilen barrel and listen to what people who point rifles at other people for a living are telling you is important.



Sorry I pissed you off. That certainly wasn't my intent. At the advice of you and others, the barrel will be 16" and contoured for lighter weight. Just because I want a Shilen barrel doesn't mean that it will be short and heavy. What is a lighter butt stock that we can find? We are changing to another trigger also.
Bluedreaux, PM an email address and I will send photos and so forth about the gas block so you can give your opinion about it.
Like most of you I do have an ego, but I will not let it get in the way of this build.

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The last video is the most impressive. Shoot your barrel out, they'll replace it. Gas rings go bad, they'll replace them. Use your gun in a justified defensive shooting and it's taken for evidence, they'll replace it. House burns down and your rifle goes up in flames, they'll replace it.

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Originally Posted by GreatWaputi
The last video is the most impressive. Shoot your barrel out, they'll replace it. Gas rings go bad, they'll replace them. Use your gun in a justified defensive shooting and it's taken for evidence, they'll replace it. House burns down and your rifle goes up in flames, they'll replace it.



Thanks.

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I'd def use a 5.56 chamber instead of a Wylde.


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Originally Posted by Tyrone
I'd def use a 5.56 chamber instead of a Wylde.



Noted, but why?

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Definitely there are options for any barrel configuration when you are not limited to the off the shelf barrels. I have cranked our barrels for different purposes, from match rifles 0.936 gas blocks with +2 gas system to finish at 26 to lightweight carbine gas system. Chambered a few SPR 18 inch with rifle gas Even 18 inch 6.5CM to 26 in the 308 AR platform. Of course each takes a different approach to make sure they are reliable and safe.

Chamber wise, I have reamers ranging from zero freebores to .170 for different purposes, and with different neck ODs. For Butch's project I would most likely use a 0.025 freebore, comparable to a CLE. That's what I use on my MK12 SPRs Mod 0, and also for my friends. These are all running AEM5s cans. They shoot real well, one guy aced the pop up qual just screwing around. Took them to 750 MK262s, no problem. I figure with Butch's project they can shoot the 69s through 77s match ammo and they should be good.

Have to admit, I have not done as many short barrels ones as I do full blown NM competition 20 inch service rifle barrels.

Here is one I did for a butter bar, 16 inch with 15 inch SLR handguard. Configuration was suggested by his Dad who was an ODA-x officer. It was a pain to modify the handguard and the bottom of the flip up clamp type BUIS. I used a zero freebore on this one as it will be feeding it with M855 A1s, occasional M855s till the Army quit issuing them. The barrel has 1 inch inside the handguard leading to the gas block.

As far gas block loosening, even on clamp type is no issue. We learned a lot when shooting A2s in competition. We drilled and tapped the pin holes in the A2 A frame so we can adjust/zero the rifle for no wind with the rear sight on MZ. To secure the front assembly we use the opposing set screws to align and clamp, them drip 290 Locktite. That green Locktite will hold the alignment and can take the heat. It can survive in a rattle battle multiple strings in practice. That is dumping 30 plus rounds on E silhouette at 600 yarda in 50 seconds. 28 plus hits in 50 seconds is a lot of fun.

Back to Butch,'s build, I am not worried about it going single shot due to loosening gas block. Rebarreling rifles with 290 Locktited gas blocks takes heat to loosen them.

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Thanks for your post Nez. As mentioned, I am not an AR guy.

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If you mechanically lock it to the barrel with pins or with a dimple-set screw then it’ll work. Clamping with loctite can and eventually will come loose. The best armorers in the country for fighting rifles all agree on this. There’s a reason the mil-spec calls for taper pins on a fighting rifle. I don’t know how hot you have to get 290loctite but a single mag dump isn’t “hot”.

Even if the WOA railed gas block is pinned in place, it’a still not a good choice. It’s too big and a rail won’t fit over it. A longer rail helps when shooting off barricades so the barrel won’t contact the barricade. And it gives you more light mounting options.

If y’all want advice, it’s that the WOA railed gas block is detrimental to a fighting rifle.

Chamber it in 5.56.

There’s no guarantee that they’ll be shooting between 69-77 grains, and they’ll almost certainly never actually shoot a 69 or 77. He’s going to be operating in a different world than that. Ammo might range anywhere from 55grain surplus to 75grain duty ammo, there’s just no telling. I’d bet that 95% of what he ever fired will be 3moa fmj.


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Originally Posted by butchlambert1
Originally Posted by Tyrone
I'd def use a 5.56 chamber instead of a Wylde.

Noted, but why?
It's a looser chamber with a sharper rifling lead. Looser chambers are more reliable with a variety of ammo in a variety of conditions. I don't think you'll ever shoot single load bullets in it (80SRA, etc) and I believe the sharper angle leads are a tiny bit more wear resistant.

A neighborhood manufacturer swears there's not enough difference in accuracy between a Wylde and a 5.56 to comment about when using mag length ammo with jump-tolerant bullets. All the reports I've seen on their barrels (Wilson kinda barrels chambered by them) indicate they shoot very well, right around MOA and possibly less, if you can believe anyone on the web.


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Thanks, this is what a forum is all about.

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Originally Posted by Bluedreaux
If you mechanically lock it to the barrel with pins or with a dimple-set screw then it’ll work. Clamping with loctite can and eventually will come loose. The best armorers in the country for fighting rifles all agree on this. There’s a reason the mil-spec calls for taper pins on a fighting rifle. I don’t know how hot you have to get 290loctite but a single mag dump isn’t “hot”.

Even if the WOA railed gas block is pinned in place, it’a still not a good choice. It’s too big and a rail won’t fit over it. A longer rail helps when shooting off barricades so the barrel won’t contact the barricade. And it gives you more light mounting options.

If y’all want advice, it’s that the WOA railed gas block is detrimental to a fighting rifle.

Chamber it in 5.56.

There’s no guarantee that they’ll be shooting between 69-77 grains, and they’ll almost certainly never actually shoot a 69 or 77. He’s going to be operating in a different world than that. Ammo might range anywhere from 55grain surplus to 75grain duty ammo, there’s just no telling. I’d bet that 95% of what he ever fired will be 3moa fmj.



We've run rattle battle training with our A2s and A4s with multiple 30 rounds of precise shooting prone at 600 never once we had any gas block come loose. The screws on the clamp type and the block itself locktited never had any issues. Back when I was shooting 10K plus rounds a year, different application obviously, come rebarreling at 3 a year, releasing the front sight base from the barrel have to put a propane torch till the green Locktite starts smoking, then tap it out.

I suppose whoever would use this rifle will probably not going to use up a standard combat load, nor will run up more rounds in an encounter than we did in one training session.

Of course the final config will be settled once I chance to chat with the end user.


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I feel like I’m trying to convince a Ferrari mechanic why a 4WD needs mud tires.


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Originally Posted by Bluedreaux
I feel like I’m trying to convince a Ferrari mechanic why a 4WD needs mud tires.



Yep, waste of time & effort; in fact, a Ferrari mech who doesn't even know what a 4WD really is.

Not the 1st time........................

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Nor the last…

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Coulda just bought a KAC SR-15 & been done with it, once & for all. grin

MM

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You guys slay me. I asked for a critique and have taken some of your advice. Why the hate?

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I can't see where you've changed anything from a heavy contoured target rifle built by a very good target shooter and from what I hear a very good smith. But that's not what a patrol rifle needs to be.

Light weight pencil barrel profile, 16" at max. Mid gas. Threaded 1/2x28 with a .625 gas block that will fit under a longer rail. The rail will protect the gas block and provide additional room to mount a light and BUIS. I prefer pinned but dimpled and loctited will work, not enough room for a clamp style gas block under the rail and mid length is 9" so that doesn't leave room for the accessories it will need. Chambered true 5.56 NATO ported correctly.

This thing needs to be light and reliable way more than it needs to be target accurate. Most training classes run 8-1200 rounds of ammo and are shot in 2 days at most, it must survive or money is wasted and lessons go unlearned. It's more than just riding around in the trunk.

Blue may not be on the line at Camp Perry but he is the one to listen to when it comes to building what you are asking.

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No hate at all that I see..............but down the road, maybe some toldjaso's. wink

Most of the people on here giving you some good advice have done / used what you are asking about more than once; you admit to not knowing & not having done it.

Your mind on the general configuration was made up before your 1st post & though I haven't been place really close attention to where you are now, but it looks like about all you've changed is going to a 16" barrel from the originally intended 18".

There are people / builders / manufacturers that specialize in different type of configurations, & your guy is obviously very good in his niche, but maybe not quite at the same level in this particular niche.

JMHO, YMMV

MM

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I will be a little more specific. It will have a LW 16" barrel.We can build or contour to any barrel contour to and including fluting. It will have the suggested Geissele trigger, suggested hand guard, and a suggested butt stock. The list that was posted was not made by my builder, Nez.
Now, what am I missing? I have taken your advice seriously.

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Exactly which gas block will be used?

Just for clarification on the longer rail and some ideas, this gun is close to what Blue was suggesting. It's got a dimpled low profile gas block under the 15" MI hand guard. It's a Sionics 16" pencil barrel with mid gas and if you look close, you can see the gas block is behind the light. Now picture an exposed railed gas block on the same mid gassed barrel and your rail must now be behind the gas block. That's gonna leave 8" of exposed barrel and flash hider and only 9" of rail space to mount a light and your support hand.
[Linked Image from i.postimg.cc]
Yes there are other options for a light but a longer hand guard just makes the most sense.

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Butch,

If it were MY build, and I've built a few patrol rifles in my time, I would go with a LW 14.5" barrel with a JP Enterprises 3-prong Flash Hider pinned and welded, the WOA handguard, nitrided gas tube, nitrided or stainless gas block, pinned if possible, dimpled & Loctite 209, SSA trigger, Magpul ACS Stock, and the other parts you mentioned.

Having climbed in, out, and off of vehicles with even a 16" AR can be clumsy and every inch counts. Add in running, climbing fences, scaling walls or other obstacles
He needs a dead-nuts reliable long gun that should be as precise as possible, understanding that even SWAT snipers rarely shoot beyond 100 yards, so even a 1.5-2 MOA rifle will do anything he will need.

I have NO doubt that Nez will build it to be even more accurate than 1.5MOA.

I'm with Bluedreaux on nixing the WOA rail gas block. Just put the longest hand-guard on it you can and keep the gas block & tube protected. Add a set of Troy Tritium MBUIS and he's ready for anything.
My Patrol rifle(s) still ride with me every day, often strapped on my ATV or resting on the floorboard of my truck as I ramble around the desert, but more often I carry one slung on a VTAC two-point sling They aren't abused, but they aren't coddled either.

Think about an adjustable gas block if he's going to put a can on it. I have done that to mine so I have that option and not over-gas my system. but retain full functionality.

Hope this helps,

Ed


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Originally Posted by APDDSN0864
Butch,

If it were MY build, and I've built a few patrol rifles in my time, I would go with a LW 14.5" barrel with a JP Enterprises 3-prong Flash Hider pinned and welded, the WOA handguard, nitrided gas tube, nitrided or stainless gas block, pinned if possible, dimpled & Loctite 209, SSA trigger, Magpul ACS Stock, and the other parts you mentioned.

Having climbed in, out, and off of vehicles with even a 16" AR can be clumsy and every inch counts. Add in running, climbing fences, scaling walls or other obstacles
He needs a dead-nuts reliable long gun that should be as precise as possible, understanding that even SWAT snipers rarely shoot beyond 100 yards, so even a 1.5-2 MOA rifle will do anything he will need.

I have NO doubt that Nez will build it to be even more accurate than 1.5MOA.

I'm with Bluedreaux on nixing the WOA rail gas block. Just put the longest hand-guard on it you can and keep the gas block & tube protected. Add a set of Troy Tritium MBUIS and he's ready for anything.
My Patrol rifle(s) still ride with me every day, often strapped on my ATV or resting on the floorboard of my truck as I ramble around the desert, but more often I carry one slung on a VTAC two-point sling They aren't abused, but they aren't coddled either.

Think about an adjustable gas block if he's going to put a can on it. I have done that to mine so I have that option and not over-gas my system. but retain full functionality.

Hope this helps,

Ed



Hey Ed, good to hear from you. All of your input is good. I will keep you guys up to date as the build unfolds.

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Butch, PM me your phone number again. My cell phone "updated" a while back and I lost a bunch of numbers...It'll be good to catch up!

Ed


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Originally Posted by APDDSN0864
Butch, PM me your phone number again. My cell phone "updated" a while back and I lost a bunch of numbers...It'll be good to catch up!

Ed



On the way.

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Rifle is finished. Waiting on the laser and sling and so forth.

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Post up those pics man..


Originally Posted by raybass
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style.
Originally Posted by Pharmseller
You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole.

BSA MAGA
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Pics should be up today. I'm ready for the critique. Chuckle chuckle

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Originally Posted by butchlambert1
Pics should be up today. I'm ready for the critique. Chuckle chuckle

You won't get any critiquing from me. I am just interested to see how it turned out. The cool thing about AR's is you can make them any way YOU want. Often times we do not agree on how the end product should be, but that is human nature. I can take my 20" ar's and do anything you want, but a lot of guys like their short barreled ar's. To each his own..


Originally Posted by raybass
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style.
Originally Posted by Pharmseller
You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole.

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Butch’s pics
[Linked Image from i.postimg.cc]
[Linked Image from i.postimg.cc]
[Linked Image from i.postimg.cc]
[Linked Image from i.postimg.cc]

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Originally Posted by TWR
Butch’s pics
[Linked Image from i.postimg.cc]
[Linked Image from i.postimg.cc]
[Linked Image from i.postimg.cc]
[Linked Image from i.postimg.cc]



Thanks, the accoutrements aren't in hand yet. The laser was for him to play with it until his sling, sights and so forth gets to him. I know it may not be to everybody's idea of the ideal AR and later he may change his mind about part of it. Before the build started Nez took Griff to the range with 4 different ARs. He wanted him to handle different configurations before the build got started.
I will let you know how it goes.
Thanks for all of your advice and input.

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Change his mind after it’s built? I’ve never heard of anything like that….

Hey that’s part of the allure to these. Trying something to see if it fits you or if you need something else, it’s an easy fix.

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Originally Posted by TWR
Change his mind after it’s built? I’ve never heard of anything like that….

Hey that’s part of the allure to these. Trying something to see if it fits you or if you need something else, it’s an easy fix.



That is my point. The AR is new to him as Griff is a rookie. Changes can be made very easily.

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Have him kit up in body armor and take it for a spin.

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Originally Posted by GreatWaputi
Have him kit up in body armor and take it for a spin.


Oh the benefits of a collapsible stock…

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Originally Posted by MontanaMan
No hate at all that I see..............but down the road, maybe some toldjaso's. wink

Most of the people on here giving you some good advice have done / used what you are asking about more than once; you admit to not knowing & not having done it.

Your mind on the general configuration was made up before your 1st post & though I haven't been place really close attention to where you are now, but it looks like about all you've changed is going to a 16" barrel from the originally intended 18".

There are people / builders / manufacturers that specialize in different type of configurations, & your guy is obviously very good in his niche, but maybe not quite at the same level in this particular niche.

JMHO, YMMV

MM


During My short time in Afghanistan we were issued 14.5 " Bushmasters with the 3 round burst. We worked out of up armoured Chevy Siverados. We had a factory issue M4 collapsible stock. We never had lot's of room in the cabs of those Chevies and I always thought they were the perfect rifle for those trucks. I didn't think they were too long or too heavy. Mine had a standard carry handle but some of the guys had Aim Point patrol optics. I put together my own version of that rifle. I no longer work out of a patrol car or up armored pickup but I wouldn't be afraid to carry one just like it again. Sometimes I think we over think what is viable and would work well for us. All we need is some familiarization and training. Problem solved.

kwg


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Our cars are just too small. Put a full console, camera, control box, tethered mic, and laptop in an Explorer and a 16” gun feels like a musket.


Originally Posted by SBTCO
your flippant remarks which you so adeptly sling
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Cheap ass Fleet Manager in Austin?
Henderson gives 'em all a Tahoe.


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Originally Posted by Bluedreaux
Our cars are just too small. Put a full console, camera, control box, tethered mic, and laptop in an Explorer and a 16” gun feels like a musket.


Need to get on the Marshals good side and get you a decked out F150.

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Originally Posted by TWR
Exactly which gas block will be used?

Just for clarification on the longer rail and some ideas, this gun is close to what Blue was suggesting. It's got a dimpled low profile gas block under the 15" MI hand guard. It's a Sionics 16" pencil barrel with mid gas and if you look close, you can see the gas block is behind the light. Now picture an exposed railed gas block on the same mid gassed barrel and your rail must now be behind the gas block. That's gonna leave 8" of exposed barrel and flash hider and only 9" of rail space to mount a light and your support hand.
[Linked Image from i.postimg.cc]
Yes there are other options for a light but a longer hand guard just makes the most sense.


I like that a lot.

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Originally Posted by Bluedreaux
Our cars are just too small. Put a full console, camera, control box, tethered mic, and laptop in an Explorer and a 16” gun feels like a musket.


I have not a clue as to their vehicles. Unfortunately our local PD uses Ferd Escapes.

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My favorite vehicle rifle; 14.7" barrel.

Light enough, & handy enough.

YMMV

MM

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

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Originally Posted by MontanaMan
My favorite vehicle rifle; 14.7" barrel.

Light enough, & handy enough.

YMMV

MM

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]




Looks great MM.

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Originally Posted by Bluedreaux
Originally Posted by butchlambert1
Originally Posted by Bluedreaux
Butch, are you open to a few suggestions or are the parts already ordered?



Sure!


16" at the max length. Even those are hard to handle getting in and out of a car. The lighter the profile the better. It'll be carried a LOT more than shot..


This ^^^. shave as much weight as possible and then shave some more. I run a mid-gas 14.5 pencil profile Hanson, presma brake with blast shield, mft minimalist stock, 14" rail and a light as far out as I can get. Pin that gas block and you are golden.


Hunt hard, kill clean, waste nothing and offer no apologies.

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Griff qualified yesterday and is happy. We will check back in about 6 months and see how it goes.
Thanks
Guys

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