Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Air Guns Advice and equipment wanted for 10m

Hey guys and gals, my daughter recently took silver at 10m youth adaptive 10m nationals, and now she says she deserves a gun instead of borrowing one. I don't disagree. However, I have no experience with 10m ISSF, not to mention Paralympic rules and equipment. She was shooting a Crosman Challenger at the tournament, so apparently that's an option. I'd like to hear opinions and offers for sale of competition ready rifles and related equipment. One particular piece of equipment that I have no idea where to find is the spring stand for supporting the rifle in SH2 category. Links and other resources are also appreciated. Because we live in a very rural area, we are basically on our own for training, advice, and equipment, so the usual references to VFW, NRA, Boy Scouts, etc don't do us much good because those groups either have few resources and/or don't exist for this category and level of competition. I know this level of gun is expensive, but we have had pretty good luck with grants. That being said, if we can get started with something inexpensive while we seek grants, then she'll be that much better prepared for next season. There are other less fortunate kids with disabilities in our area that we would pass on a starter rifle to once we get her something higher end. Thanks in advance! John

I have no advice for you (except maybe its as simple as a Challenger of her own?) but I definitely want to send her a high five!

You might also ask the same question of Hector Medina at

https://www.ctcustomairguns.com/

Who/what organization sponsors the competitions?

Are there no sources of information on the sponsoring organizations web site?

If she shoots that well a lesser airgun is likely to be a disservice to her ability/improvement.

I'm not familiar with the adaptive shooting side of the house, but I am familiar with 10m Air Rifle competition. In 10m Air there are basically two categories. Sporter Air which is governed by the CMP/NRA/4H jointly. 10m Sporter Air is shot in three positions (Prone, Standing and Kneeling) with specifically designated air rifles (a few are the Crosman Challenger, the Daisy 853, 888, 887 and 599, Air Arms T200). They are all limited in price (around $600) to keep the sport inexpensive and accessible. As such, specialized shooting jackets, pants, boots are not allowed.

The other major category is sometimes called Precision Air Rifle and is governed by the ISSF internationally and USAS (USA Shooting) here. This is the 10m Air Rifle that is shot at the Olympics (first gold of the Olympics this year went to Women's 10m Air). It is shot all standing. IIRC the head of the USAS Paralympic Shooting Team is Bob Foth who medalled at the Olympics in '92. Forgive me if Paralympic is not the same as "Adaptive" as this is new to me.
A current top of the line ISSF 10m Air Rifle will cost somewhere around 4 to 5k (you're looking at names like Anschutz, Feinwerkbau and Walther). I coach juniors and very few to none benefit from a 5k Precision Air Rifle and we've got kids shooting frequent cleans on the 10m target (imagine hitting a period in the newspaper ten times in a row in the standing position).

FWIW, even the Sporter Air Rifles are capable of shooting cleans (all 10's). I am responsible for the testing of the team air rifles. They shoot both the sporter season as well as the precision seasons. Below is one of the tests I shot to see what pellets the tune on this Crosman Sporter preferred. Each bull has 10 shots on them and I'm pretty sure that McKenzie shot R-10 lot xxx652 that year.

I'm happy to offer what I know so feel free to PM me...but again, my knowledge on Adaptive shooting is slim to none.

This is probably the best place for you to float questions;
http://www.targettalk.org/index.php?sid=93e70738baaf5ba1e9adda460c634cbd

TargetTalk has a sub-board for adaptive shooting. You might see if you can find specific help there.

I might also suggest you download the CMP 3P Air Rifle Rule book to see what might apply to adaptive shooting. Finally see if the ISSF Rule book can shed light on the International level of adaptive shooting.

Best wishes...your daughter is fortunate to have a father as supportive as you.

PM me if you think I can help.
Chris.

Good tips! I'm liking the AA T200 a lot due to its power adjustability, but the Daisy 599 is a very close second due to its range of adjustments (and power adjustable with a different tank). There are FWBs and Haemmerlis in the $1-1.5k range that also have my eye. Para/adaptive are the same thing, which are derivative of ISSF/USAS. The big adaptation is the use of a support with a spring in it to provide a gun rest for those who cannot hold the rifle. That, and the "standing" is actually seated without touching the table in front of the shooter, and "prone" is also seated, but the shooter can lean against the table and place their elbows on the table. Her competition was sponsored by Move United, and the folks there gave me pretty good advice, but I'm looking for diversity of experience and advice that will help me bulk up on everything I can to help her succeed.

I've got experience with the T200 and the 599. Each has it's own quirks and peculiarities. They were designed for the "Sporter" game which means they're weight limited and trigger pull limited compared to Precision guns. The both also have short sight radius' compared to the other rifles legal in the Sporter category which makes theoretically makes them more finicky on sighting. I got one of the early 599's and sent my improvement notes to the product manager. Sight radius was high on my list. One of the cool things about the 599 is that the valving is contained in the cylinder. Plus is that like you noted, you can change the tune by just changing out the cylinder. Minus is that if you change the cylinder, you've potentially changed your tune. The cylinder is also regulated which is a huge plus in my book.

The T200's stock seems like it was designed by someone not familiar with the sporter air rifle game. It doesn't allow a natural hand position. Especially for smaller hands.

FWIW, if I were to make the investment in a rifle for a junior shooter, it would come with the condition that regular and serious practice would be part of the deal. I've seen too many kids that felt they "needed" their own rifle only to see their interest wane and the rifle become an expensive dust collector.

I'm guessing when you're talking Hammerli, you're looking at the AR-20. We have a couple of those in our program and while they are attractive from price standpoint, we steer parents away from those. They look good from far...but they are far from good. Plus Umarex (parent company of Hammerli) has not been easy to work with for parts and support. Ironically they support their Walther brand better. FWB's are your better bet. They're much better built and supportable into forever.

The Crosman Challenger is match proven (it pretty much rules sporter air rifle all the way up to the national level) and if the owner is handy around high pressure air, it can be user serviceable (since you're on your own for many things it seems). It's power adjustable, does NOT have a removable cylinder and is not regulated.

Here's a German document on the stand and spring.
https://www.schiettechniek.nl/system/files/pdf/de_verende_schietsteun.pdf
Google can do the translation for you.