Home Forums Reloading Bullet Casting Lyman 311041 in a 30-30

Smitty. Take a few of those bullets and stick the nose into the muzzle. (Don't remember if I asked you to try that.) The ones I have are so darn loose they wobble. (Just checked them last night for splits and grins.)I think I'm going to try the process called "Beagling) to see if I can make the noses larger in diameter. That might cure the problem. The real bitch is now I have to melt down a full 3 pound coffee can full of those little buggers. I dunno why I didn't check that aspect out before. What does puzzle me is why all three molds have the same problem? I have an older Lyman #311291 that cast a perfectly sized nose, but the newer one I bought makes too small a nose and it rattles in the muzzle. Methinks Lyman may be trying to cut costs by using a cherry to cut the molds way too long. What hurts the most as the bullets are perfect to the eye, just too damned small in the nose area. Even the NEI mold makes too small a nose.
BTW, nose fit is one of the critical points toward getteg good accuracy from cast bullets. Only having a perfect base is more important and properly fitted gas checks usually takes care of that problem.
Paul B.

PJGunner:
These are extremely tight. I hadda use a hammer to gittum in, and a vice to gittum out.

I'm gonna be gone for awhile. I'll work on this when I get back.
Smitty of the North

hey smitty, ifin' ya want i can send a few of my lyman casts an' have you see if they'll work! they are the 311041 cast 173gr fn/gc lemme' know. Dave

Lucky 7:
I'll send you a PM about this, when I get back from my trip.
Smitty of the North

Smitty,
Man I feel bad you have to put up with fighting this! I don't have a FLAT nosed 30 cal. mould to give you, but of course I have 22, 338, 35, 44, 416, & 45'S! Lyman makes it cheap to get into casting, but their bore riding designs are a curse! Essentially you have two diameters to fit and the "bore riding" nose is small just so the bullet will chamber in many rifles (except yours!). If you choose to stay with this mold you have a few options:
1. Have your friend use 1/2 pure lead and 1/2 ww and heat treat them. This alloy will not fragment and will be slightly harder than what your using. It will also cast at a slightly smaller diameter.
2. Have your friend size the NOSE only to the next smaller diameter, unfortunately this size is .285, and the bullets may also "bend" when sizing this way. Accuracy will suck because the bore riding portion will be even more unstabilized.
3. Get a .285 die, have a machinist open it up to .299/300 diameter. Use the nose sizing technique above. Again, "bore riding" noses don't touch the gooves, and lack stability.
4. Seat your bullet until it chambers, functions, and just barely makes contact with throat/rifling metal. Mildly crimp wherever you need to with your factory crimp die. You won't be able to use the crimp groove, but that's okay.
The best route is to contact LBT, get the slugs, slug your throat and bore, send him the slug and have a flat nose 30/30 bullet made just for your gun and he can put the crimp exactly where it needs to be! It will not be a bore riding nose AND you can load it and fire it like a jacketed bullet! Casting diameters won't exist because you will be sizing the bearing surfaces. Maybe your friend will spring for half?
All of these will be cheaper than rethroating your gun, or at least in the ballpark.
I hate to see you struggling because folks get the idea that cast is difficult, low velocity, inaccurate, and a pain to deal with. This is all true if the bullet doesn't fit. WAY to big or small can only be found if you know your gun's dimensions.
I'll try to post some pics to help you out if you want.
Hear ya when you get back.

Hey guys,
Been following this discussion with great interest. I have some Cabelas points to use up and they stock this mould (311041). I was wondering how this bullet would perform in some other 30 caliber rounds. I have an M1 (30-06), a Win 88 (308), a 300 RUM (Rem 700), and of course an old pre AE 94 in 30-30. I'm pretty sure I don't want to be using this bullet, or any cast bullet, in the 300 RUM, but what about in the M1 and the 308 lever gun. It would be nice to have a mould I could feed several guns with that was essentially free. This would be my first sub 44 cal casting venture. Any differences worth noting in technique from those used for the fat boy bulletss? Appreciate any advice. Thanks fellas.

That bullet should work ok in your M1. Cast them as hard as you can (I used straight Linotype in mine) because you have to reach a certain energy level to reliably cycle the action, and you'll have leading problems if you use a too soft bullet. Not so much in the barrel generally speaking (let's not get into bore condition, lubes, etc.), but in the gas port and gas cylinder where it will build up to one degree or another. If you shoot cast in an M1 plan on cleaning those areas more often than you would normally.

Never cast for a .30cal. bigger than the '06. Never saw a need to own one. Just me.

My advise would be to get the mould, cast and size a bunch of them (for all around use in a few different rifles I would go .309" or maybe .310" for starters), get a copy of a decent manual (Lyman's comes to mind) and have at it. Don't try to hotrod your loads right off the bat. Start out slow and go up if you feel the need. You may not get around to "going up"- the slow ones are just too much fun to shoot! Use the dies you already have. The seater die will probably leave a ring on the nose of the bullet, unless it is designed for round nosers. Don't worry about it. Add a mouth expanding die to your collection to help ease the slightly oversize bullet into the case, or just chamfer the heck out of the case mouth (works but not as good). Don't worry about crimping unless they have to feed through a tube magazine.

The important thing is just do it. When you have problems (and you will) post a query here and someone will jump in with an answer. Hopefully someone not as long winded as me!

Smitty, Sorry that those aren't working out. They are sized 0.310. You might try a lee push through sizer @ 0.309 or .308. The lube should stay on as they are resized. These run about $12 or so and come with their liquid lube. Gianni.

HawkI:
Thanks for the info. I didn't know there was so much to using cast bullets.

I got these bullets on a trade, from someone on the Internet. I don't have a friend close by who is making bullets for me. I have some experience in casting bullets, and shooting cast bullets in a rifle, but it is very limited. I don't want to get into casting them myself, at this point, but it is interesting nonetheless. I have a Lee Mould but IIRC, I had the same situation with it years ago. My rifle must be tight like you say.

I'm just trying to find some bullets more suitable for my gun. These will work, but they are just a tight at the nose. I will be shooting them though. I have some coming from BTB, and I will be trying another brand too.

Thanks again.
Smitty of the North

MT Gianni:
Not a problem. I have one of those Lee sizers already. It sizes the body, not just the nose portion. Actually, the problem is that the nose portion of the bullets are too tight for easy chambering. I should be able to use them though.

Smitty of the North

If I might suggest a substitute bullet mold, I think you just might be happier with Lyman's #311291 which is popular enough that it should still be available. The only difference between it and #311041 is in the nose. Weight is just about the same and the round nose should feed better in the M-1. The bullet works just fine up to full power loads in the 30-30 as well and is a sweetheart in the .308. I ahve both molds in question and the 311291 is the one I go due due to problems I have with 311041.
FWIW, #311291 has been around since 1905.
Paul B.

hey smitty, did ya get the 311041's figured out. Mine were cast as .309dia then sized & gas checked to .308dia. they worked very well in our 2-win94's and my marlin 336. If you want some let me know. Dave

Yeah, the NOSE diameter is .308, which is too tight in the bore of my rifle. If I load'em and Crimp, I can force them into the rifling, but it's a tight squeeze. So much so, that it really slows things down.

I sent you a PM regarding your offer.

Thanks
Smitty of the North

I just did a "Beagle" job on the two #31141 (old number) molds and on the NEI mold and ran a few of each. I think the nose may be the proper size now. I'll have to make up a few dummy rounds and see how they feed, The process did make the driving band way over side at about .318" though. I tried sizing a few abd it looks as if the nosed get bent a little. That ain't good. I have the same trouble with Lyman's #311284, as do some friends of mine who use the same bullet. No big deal. I have an old Lyman #45 luber-sizer that I can't get parts for. I can still put the sizing die in it and make a punch to push bullets through nose first. Once they're sized, then I can run them through a luber-sizer in the normal manner. I've tried that in a manner of speaking with the #311284 and it looks like it might work. I still have to figure out a way to catch the bullets as they come out the other end. I've got a spare bullet catcher from a Dillon 500B so I may try and adapt that to do the job.
Paul B.

mabey a Lee push through sizer may be the ticket.

Hi Smitty, How'ld ya like them 30-30 boolits I sent ya.
They're just what the doc ordered. Lots of my friends have me make 'em for 'em. It ya need anymore, lemme know, I'll dig out the rcbs furnace and 40 or 50 bars. Take care buddy, chat with ya later, Dave

Lucky_7:
Your boolits are mighty fine. I loaded up 20 rounds and fired them today. 10, were with 29 grains, and 10, with 30 grains of of H4895. I'm still testing, but I think the 30 grains will prove to be the most accurate. Velocity in my 16.5 inch barrel, was in the 1900s. I may up it a 1/2 grain, and try that too.

I intend to try some penetration tests too, in comparison to 170 grain hornady jacketed bullets.

Thanks, I'll letcha know when I need more of'em.

Smitty of the North

Glad to see success Smitty! Fit,fit, fit is the key to cast! Hope they work like you want them to.

Thanks HawkI:
I'm sure you're right.

These boolits from Lucky_7 are the right size at the nose, so I don't have to force them into the rifling like the others.

I'm glad I have access to the kind of information I can get from this forum. I appreciate all those who helped or even tried to help.
Smitty of the North

Lucky(or anyone else): I need a hunting bullet for my .30-30's
(M94, M99 & Contender) that will expand(?), maybe(?), yes or
no? Do I use WW or WW/pure lead? The only deer I've taken have
been with muzzleloader pure lead .50's so I haven't had to worry
about expansion. Also, what mixture will work in my .308? I have
to shoot 150's because the Ruger 18 1/2" does not want to stabi-
lize 165-180 very well.
Last, but, not least, what mixture for .45ACP(900fps) and 9mm
(1150 fps), expansion not an issue.
Thanks for any comment(s).