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Joined: Mar 2020
Posts: 115
Campfire Member
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OP
Campfire Member
Joined: Mar 2020
Posts: 115 |
This past January I sent a pre war super grade Winchester model 70 in 375 to J. Sip & Sons in Toquerville UT for work.
Communication was not great, but finally I was able to get through on may 7th where they informed me my rifle was complete. I then sent PayPal payment immediately and was told my rifle would ship the next week.
I have since heard nothing from this company, my rifle never shipped. The voice mail box is full, emails and texts go unanswered. I found online where this operation is currently in the middle of multiple lawsuits. A friend of mine was able to get through a few weeks ago where they told him ATF had suspended their FFL. I called the ATF branch in Salt Lake City where I was informed their license was being reapplied for but that they could still send me back my property.
I’ve run out of options and don’t know what to do, I have left messages with a local detective at the sheriffs office. My attorney is sending a certified letter this week.
If anyone has anyway of contacting J. Sip & Sons it would be greatly appreciated. I just want my gun back, no matter what state it may be in. Is that really too much to ask? I spent a whole year having this rifle imported from germany(it had belonged to a ph in Tanzania).
This is the rifle I had planned on bringing back to Africa next year.
Thank You
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Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 971
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 971 |
What a crappy deal! Thank you for posting. Although this is an appeal for help, it should serve as general warning to others.
This is one of MANY reasons, I try and avoid any gunsmith services. The first is unreasonable & long delays that appear to be a deliberate part of gunsmiths business models. They put themselves first over the customer. They keep this backlog on hand for their own JOB SECURITY.
The natural consequence of the first problem is when crap happens more customers effected. That crap maybe death, but; also lawsuits abound in this business. Problem 2.
That same goes for deposits. How many times I have read of 1/3 down, gone forever. At an emotional level, I rather loose cash than a gun.
If at all possible buy as good a gun as you can afford and live with it. And if you really need a barrel chop, etc find a local guy, It will be slow and EXPENSIVE. Problem 3.
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Joined: Dec 2020
Posts: 1,980
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Dec 2020
Posts: 1,980 |
Man, you don't know how much I hate hearing this!
My Father in Law, who's been gone several yrs. now, who was a well known and respected Gunsmith would never, ever even think about doing any thing even close to that!
It's a dying Art, like everything else in this Country, as we've lowered OUR, standards to accommodate the Inefficient, the weak, the Lazy, and the Dis Honest! etc.................
Sad!
Good Luck!
Last edited by HunterShooter58; 08/01/21.
I Learned a long time ago to Separate My Want's from My Needs!
A man's Gotta Do What a Man's Gotta Do!
Know Thy Self!
TRUMP DID WIN!!!
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Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 8,262
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 8,262 |
sad to hear about this, i sent a Redfield scope to the manufacture who are suppose to fix used Redfield scopes they had no problem cashing the check but never got my scope back and they don`t answer their phones either. people that pull this crap should be put in jail ! its FRAUD
LIFE NRA , we vote Red up here, Norseman
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 78,300
Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 78,300 |
I would be taking a trip to Utah to personally darken their doorstep.
"...the left considers you vermin, and they'll kill you given the chance..." Bristoe
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 10,900
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jan 2001
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I would be taking a trip to Utah to personally darken their doorstep. ^^^^^^^^^^ THIS ^^^^^^^^^ memtb
You should not use a rifle that will kill an animal when everything goes right; you should use one that will do the job when everything goes wrong." -Bob Hagel
“I’d like to be a good rifleman…..but, I prefer to be a good hunter”! memtb 2024
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Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 4,662
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jan 2012
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Good riddance....hope they wind up in prison.
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Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 193
Campfire Member
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Campfire Member
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 193 |
Did the OP ever get their gun back?
"I'm in love with Montana. For other states I have admiration, respect, recognition, even some affection. But with Montana it is love. And it's difficult to analyze love when you're in it." John Steinbeck
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Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 1,648
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 1,648 |
Yeh I know the OP and he recently got it back (with a ton of pressure from outside sources) with several issues requiring it to be sent off again to a well known shop for repair.
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Joined: Sep 2016
Posts: 651
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Sep 2016
Posts: 651 |
Great, Sometimes you have to take hold and hang on until you get some results. I know I have a couple guns that if that happened I would be camping on their doorstep one is a S&W 1917 US army 45 ACP revolver my grand father carried in Germany during WWI it doesn't get far from home.
Take care and be safe, garyw
Anyone that doesn't learn something new everyday has their eyes and ears closed with their mouths open.
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Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 15,606
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 15,606 |
Good deal. Caveat emptor seems to be the first thought when sending a gun for work.
Last edited by navlav8r; 03/05/22.
NRA Life,Endowment,Patron or Benefactor since '72.
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Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 2,130
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Aug 2010
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Stories like these cause me to be thankful that I have two gunsmiths within an hour of me. I can take mine in to them, go over the work needed and know the work will get done properly and in reasonable time.
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Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 942
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 942 |
Glad it worked out.
Two cautionary stories in my life.
When I moved from my farm, I had five guns at a local gunshop/smith that he was selling on consignment. He went bankrupt. I didn't get my guns or any reimbursement. Big debt holders took all the asset value. I later found out he sold them on GB. A couple were collectors and I lost a couple grand. So began the begining of the end of my gun trading and slow disposition of my collection.
I worked for a few weeks in a gunshop where I had a gut feeling that things were a little off in the book work. I left and found another job. ATF and LEO'S arrested two guys who were doing blackmarket off the books sales. The gun and hunting world is no different than any other business, there are just some less than trustworthy folks. Be careful! Bfly
Be nice and work hard, you never have enough time or friends.
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Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 3,148
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Apr 2011
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81 yrs old and have never had a bad experience, have had several customs
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Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 4,662
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 4,662 |
A friend had the same experience. He even got the BBB and police involved. Sipp said it was a "misunderstanding". Someone need to shut that place down.
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 10,253
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 10,253 |
"...A man's rights rest in three boxes: the ballot box, the jury box and the cartridge box..." Frederick Douglass, 1867
( . Y . )
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Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 28,705
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 28,705 |
I’m just about to the point where I’ll never send guns anywhere except back to the factory, and maybe won’t buy any except locally. I have a top-grade smith 20 minutes away, and multiple dealers within an hour or two.
What fresh Hell is this?
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Joined: Apr 2022
Posts: 57
Campfire Greenhorn
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Campfire Greenhorn
Joined: Apr 2022
Posts: 57 |
Makes me nervous to take or send in a gun.
Sheesh.
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Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 11,492
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 11,492 |
The only gunsmiths I use are (a) local guys who (b) I personally know or (c) are recommended by friends who have used them for a long time. I would never use one I couldn't go visit.
Don't blame me. I voted for Trump.
Democrats would burn this country to the ground, if they could rule over the ashes.
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Joined: May 2003
Posts: 23,002
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 23,002 |
Bradley955: I am so sorry to hear of your tale of woe. I am happy the Rifle was returned but again saddened that you had to have the "work" redone. Damn! My close friend here in SW Montana was a military "lifer" and was stationed in Alaska for some time. He had bought a double barrel Rifle in caliber 375 H&H specifically to Hunt Bison, Bears and Moose with it while he was stationed there in Alaska. He harvested a wild Bison and then took his double Rifle to a gunsmith in Fairbanks, Alaska for some minor extraction issue. Time went by with no notice and finally he tried to call the "gunsmith" who he found out after a while had gone out of business and he never saw his double Rifle again! His efforts to recover and rectify the situation all failed. So I am glad YOU at least got your Rifle back. Sad. Hold into the wind VarmintGuy
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Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 124
Campfire Member
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Campfire Member
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 124 |
There is a family owned business of gunsmiths in Strasbourg (Alsace) named J.J. Sipp making bespoke single shot falling blocks, break action singles, doubles and combinations. I fear that your local spiv is trading on the Name. A search and enquiry may yield results, (BTW Madame Sipp and her daughter speak excellent English. (we visited in 2013 as did a few Texican folk from north and south Tejas)
Last edited by purri; 05/27/22. Reason: sp
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 29,383
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 29,383 |
The fact they took PayPal for payment says it all. You are SOL if you gripe to them about this.
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Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 4,943
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Nov 2008
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This thread reminds me of why I would never consider commissioning another custom gun of any sort. I got burned big time decades ago by a well known top drawer gunmaker who took bankruptcy.
There are no doubt some honorable folks in the trade, but for me and my money, I’ll buy completed work.
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Joined: Oct 2020
Posts: 74
Campfire Greenhorn
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Campfire Greenhorn
Joined: Oct 2020
Posts: 74 |
Hunter shooter, you hit the nail on the head.
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Joined: Mar 2022
Posts: 109
Campfire Member
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Campfire Member
Joined: Mar 2022
Posts: 109 |
So happy to hear the OP got his rifle back. I too have experienced similar experiences. Including a Smith committing suicide while having a custom 1911 of mine to do some work.
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Joined: Nov 2022
Posts: 25
Campfire Greenhorn
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Campfire Greenhorn
Joined: Nov 2022
Posts: 25 |
I would fly to UT and knock on their door to get my rifle. No one is goi g to be as motivated as you on getting your rifle back
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