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I have always heard the .30 WCF was the very first smokeless powder sporting cartridge in the U.S. But what about the .303 Savage? Both were developed in 1894. Does anyone have any references as to which came first, or was it maybe a dead heat? Another thought occurred that since Savage was engaged trying for a military contract that perhaps the .303 would be considered a military development instead of sporting.
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"there are few better cartridges on Earth than the 7 x 57mm Mauser"
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Joined: Nov 2005
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Been lots of debate about that. We'll probably never know for certain. (By the way it was 1895 for both of them. The 94 Winchester debuted only in .32-40, and .38-55 I believe.) It's obvious that Winchester developed the .30WCF from the .32-40 Ballard and .38-55- same rim and head size. My guess is that Art Savage pulled the .303 out of his you-know-what, merely striving for a performance level compatible with the smokeless powders available at the time, in a package suitable to function in his invention. I doubt Winchester broadcast their development of the .30wcf in advance of its unveiling, and I'll bet neither did Savage.
"You can lead a man to logic, but you cannot make him think." Joe Harz
"Always certain, often right." Keith McCafferty
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Arthur participated in the 1892 Army trials with the 30-40 Krag, and even had “30 US” rifles listed in the 1895 catalog - tho they didn’t make any. I think the 303 Savage was intended for sporting purposes.. mostly. Arthur would have been happy to sell it to any military.
“ The Savage 99 Pocket Reference”. All models and variations of 1895’s, 1899’s and 99’s covered. Also dates, checkering, engraving.. Find at www.savagelevers.com
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Campfire Tracker
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I think Savage and Winchester both rose to the occassion at the same time and we make way too much of firsts. A few years back we were plagued with short fat magnums. Who got there first. Who knows and who cares. The difference between the 30-30 and the 303 arriving on the market is like trying to tell the difference between the gold and silver medel winners in an Olympic swim meet - or for that matter the bronze winner too. There is such a fine degree of seperation that the effort it took to define first place was hardly worth it.
"The universal aptitude for ineptitude makes any human accomplishment an incredible miracle." John Stapp - "Stapp's Law"
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Joined: Nov 2005
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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We'll said. As for me I wish there had been a .29 caliber.
"You can lead a man to logic, but you cannot make him think." Joe Harz
"Always certain, often right." Keith McCafferty
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"The universal aptitude for ineptitude makes any human accomplishment an incredible miracle." John Stapp - "Stapp's Law"
"Klaatu barada nikto"
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Campfire Member
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Funny you should say that Gnoahhh ................I always wanted the same and wonder why someone didn't make a "29"..........They covered all the other bases.......Why not ?
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