Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Custom Rifles & Wildcats Will I ever get my gun back?

This past January I sent a pre war super grade Winchester model 70 in 375 to J. Sip & Sons in Toquerville UT for work.

Communication was not great, but finally I was able to get through on may 7th where they informed me my rifle was complete. I then sent PayPal payment immediately and was told my rifle would ship the next week.

I have since heard nothing from this company, my rifle never shipped. The voice mail box is full, emails and texts go unanswered. I found online where this operation is currently in the middle of multiple lawsuits. A friend of mine was able to get through a few weeks ago where they told him ATF had suspended their FFL. I called the ATF branch in Salt Lake City where I was informed their license was being reapplied for but that they could still send me back my property.

I’ve run out of options and don’t know what to do, I have left messages with a local detective at the sheriffs office. My attorney is sending a certified letter this week.

If anyone has anyway of contacting J. Sip & Sons it would be greatly appreciated. I just want my gun back, no matter what state it may be in. Is that really too much to ask? I spent a whole year having this rifle imported from germany(it had belonged to a ph in Tanzania).

This is the rifle I had planned on bringing back to Africa next year.

Thank You

Can you drive there in person and confront them? In either case, with the 'pending lawsuits' etc., you may be SOL... IIWY I"d contact Paypal and work on a refund (if you can)..

Did the ATF agent infer if an agent could go there and collect the rifle?

I’m on the other side of the country, ATF said this was a local law enforcement matter. I left a voicemail with a detective.

Not your answer, but I would call the sheriff office day and night until I talked to someone. Maybe fly in and have a face to face.

Go there in person right now if you want it back. If creditors put them into a bankruptcy proceeding, your property can be tied up and beyond their control to even give back to you. Do not delay.

Make sure you take some proof it is yours.

Crappy position to be in, but at some point you have to weigh the costs and decide whether the material value of the rifle is worth the investment in time and money to get it back. I hate thieves so I’d likely spend what it took to make the pricks pay dearly. Either way, good luck and hope it ends in your favor.

Plan on taking another rifle to Africa next year. Best of luck.

You're welcome

I would check out the price of plane tickets and keep calling the sheriff.

Hal

The poster on the other forum questions whether Sip is out of business. IF they are, there could be a bankruptcy filing. You should be able to learn of a filing by phone. Call the U.S. Bankruptcy Court in Salt Lake City. The court clerks are usually helpful and should give you an idea of whether any creditors lawyers have gotten involved.

I had a similar situation several years ago, I wrote a letter to the State Attorney General, they were well aware of the situation. They had received enough complaints that they filed a class action law suit, I was prepared to go to court in the matter. Fortunately a settlement was reached, I got my gun back but not the money I'd paid for the work. The gun had not even been taken out of the box that I had shipped it in despite claims by the firm that the work had been completed. All I can tell you from my experience is to hang in there these things take time once you get the authorities involved.

I'd call the local law enforcement jurisdiction and discuss filing a charge of Embezzlement. You'd need all your ducks lined up. Proof of ownership, proof of placing the rifle in the firm's hands, copies of any correspondence and proof of funds transferred. That's likely the sort of 'package' that might persuade local authorities to take action.
Any creditor actions, lawsuits, etc, should not affect your rifle ownership rights IF provable. As noted, any funds for payment are likely gone. There may be a few grey areas. You'd just need to package what you have and determine if the locals want to do something about it. When victims can come up with a complete package; so-called "silver platter" case, there may be interest. A successful crime report factually amounting to theft, could also well prevent any judgment creditors clearing out the firm's assets, from confiscating & retaining your gun.
Often, firms underwater are yet good folks just overwhelmed. They may be willing to cooperate with authorities to get such matter as your situation cleared up. One caution. Never use "threat of criminal complaint/prosecution/etc" directly against a suspect as lever. That'd typically "blackmail", and itself a crime.

All this is simply off the top of my head as possible practical remedy. I don't know Utah law or the LE 'climate' there. No advice intended.
Good luck and...
Just my take.
John

I'd do a road trip ( and have for the very same reason ). It was kinda fun.