24hourcampfire.com
24hourcampfire.com
-->
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
Page 2 of 4 1 2 3 4
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,980
C
Campfire Regular
Offline
Campfire Regular
C
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,980
Originally Posted by 300_savage
Originally Posted by Mule Deer
Posting on the 24hourcampfire "Ask The Gunwriters" forum makes anyone a gunwriter.

Hmmm....for maybe the first time, I have to disagree with JB. To be a writer, you need to be able to hear the rhythm of the words you write. Punctuation is important too, but it's not everything. Keith was a writer.....needed editing, but his stories flowed in the reader's mind. O'Connor, JB, and many others can do both. I can do punctuation and grammer, but couldn't write anything others would enjoy reading. To my mind that is the difference.


Most everything you read these days is hyperbole or bullshit, I don’t want to read poetry I want facts

GB1

Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 12,312
Campfire Outfitter
Online Content
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 12,312
I was annointed as a gunwriter by our late Mister Howell.

He and I had been having a bit of a squabble over the objective veracity of gun articles and the actual intentions of their writers. It was from this that I concocted the first posting about the Pillar of TrVth. For those of you who are unaware, the Pillar of TrVth stands out in a forlorn patch of weeds just behind the main Campfire. It is available for any camper who wishes to use it. You simply stand on top of the pillar and make a pronouncement. If what you say is objectively true, you get a pretty little green light and a sentimental ringtone. If what you stated is false, a rather large bolt of lightning issues from the heavens and zaps you into a pile of ashes.

If memory serves, the nut of my squabble with Ken was the actual motivation for gunwriting. My contention was that it was entertainment. Ken wanted to present a loftier opinion. In the midst of the exchange, I stated that the Pillar of TrVth would go unused by any gunwriter. Ken agreed and it was on this point, that he anointed me as an official gunwriter.

We stopped mowing around The Pillar of TrVth about a decade ago. It's still there if anyone wishes to use it. However, I'd suggest bringing me along to show you how it works. You'll also have quite a job clearing away the brambles.


Genesis 9:2-4 Ministries Lighthearted Confessions of a Cervid Serial Killer
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 19,179
J
Campfire Ranger
Offline
Campfire Ranger
J
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 19,179
Shaman said above ^^^^

"I was annointed as a gunwriter by our late Mister Howell".


Well, we know that NO man is right about everything. whistle

Dr. Ken and I also corresponded about several things over the years.
I first saw and read him in the Gun Rags.

I've said this before, a long time ago.
I have been PRIVILEGED to talk, via key board, with several "Writers" I was familiar with on the printed page.

I NEVER expected to have the opportunities to talk with these guys personally. Participating HERE made that
possible. I really like and appreciate the privilege and opportunities I have had HERE on the 'fire'

THANKS Guys


jwall- *** 3100 guy***

A Flat Trajectory is Never a Handicap

Speed is Trajectory's Friend !!
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 31,220
Campfire 'Bwana
Offline
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 31,220
I stopped writing magazine articles when editors stopped using freelance articles. That was nearly 10 years ago. (Oddly enough, I just had a submitted article returned to me that never ran even though the manuscript has numerous editing marks. They were clearing out their files.)

My two books still sell a few copies every month even though they were published a decade ago and I have never marketed them. They earn me enough to buy a Happy Meal some months. (I have the prices set at the minimum the publisher allows.)

Motivation? I initially wrote magazine articles because I so admired the men who had entertained and educated me about shooting all my life. I wanted to be like them. After I had sold a few articles and gotten favorable comments from readers my motivation changed to a desire to share the things I'd learned about reloading. Evaluating new reloading components or developing safe loads for obscure cartridges is tedious, hard work. If I could save a few readers that drudgery, I was rewarded. There was certainly no monetary reward.

As an aside, I also had my share of squabbles with the late Dr Ken Howell. Enjoyable ones, because two lovers of the language can spar about its intricacies without losing respect for each other. Our longest running disagreement involved whether "alright" is a proper word or not. I maintain that it is - and still do.


Cleverly disguised as a responsible adult.

Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 19,179
J
Campfire Ranger
Offline
Campfire Ranger
J
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 19,179
Morning Rocky.

You are one of the ones I mentioned and I am glad to have the privilege to exchange ideas with you.

Thnx

Jerry


jwall- *** 3100 guy***

A Flat Trajectory is Never a Handicap

Speed is Trajectory's Friend !!
IC B2

Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,975
L
Campfire Regular
Offline
Campfire Regular
L
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,975
Originally Posted by RockyRaab
I stopped writing magazine articles when editors stopped using freelance articles. That was nearly 10 years ago. (Oddly enough, I just had a submitted article returned to me that never ran even though the manuscript has numerous editing marks. They were clearing out their files.)

My two books still sell a few copies every month even though they were published a decade ago and I have never marketed them. They earn me enough to buy a Happy Meal some months. (I have the prices set at the minimum the publisher allows.)

Motivation? I initially wrote magazine articles because I so admired the men who had entertained and educated me about shooting all my life. I wanted to be like them. After I had sold a few articles and gotten favorable comments from readers my motivation changed to a desire to share the things I'd learned about reloading. Evaluating new reloading components or developing safe loads for obscure cartridges is tedious, hard work. If I could save a few readers that drudgery, I was rewarded. There was certainly no monetary reward.

As an aside, I also had my share of squabbles with the late Dr Ken Howell. Enjoyable ones, because two lovers of the language can spar about its intricacies without losing respect for each other. Our longest running disagreement involved whether "alright" is a proper word or not. I maintain that it is - and still do.


Wolfe Publishing has always published freelance articles, although not many. At least they were still doing that a couple of years and not just for their "B" annual publications, but for HANDLOADER and RIFLE. I suppose the GUN DIGEST publications still use a good bit of freelance material as they always have, but these aren't the publications they once were.

Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,052
M
Campfire Kahuna
Offline
Campfire Kahuna
M
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,052
Originally Posted by shaman
I was annointed as a gunwriter by our late Mister Howell. He and I had been having a bit of a squabble over the objective veracity of gun articles and the actual intentions of their writers. If memory serves, the nut of my squabble with Ken was the actual motivation for gunwriting. My contention was that it was entertainment. Ken wanted to present a loftier opinion.


The very first time I met the late John Wootters, at a SHOT Show many years ago, he told me quite firmly that gun writing wasn't "real journalism," but entertainment. He knew this because he'd done "real journalism" as a reporter for a big Texas newspaper.

I might also point out that in many ways I am not a "gun writer." I started making most of my living writing in my 20s, and all of it from age 30 on. But I didn't start selling a few gun articles until my late 30s, and they only became a major part of my income in my 40s.

I still write quite a bit on other subjects, but for the last 2-3 year have also supposedly been "semi-retired." In a certain sense this is true because I'm only writing about half as many magazine articles per year as I did a decade ago. But quite often I don't feel retired at all....


“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.”
John Steinbeck
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 31,220
Campfire 'Bwana
Offline
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 31,220
It was Wolfe Publishing who told me they did not plan to accept any further freelance articles. The last two or three I submitted were accepted, but never published and sat in their files for years. The then-editor told me that they no longer had enough page count to print more than their staff writers produced.


Cleverly disguised as a responsible adult.

Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,975
L
Campfire Regular
Offline
Campfire Regular
L
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,975
Originally Posted by RockyRaab
It was Wolfe Publishing who told me they did not plan to accept any further freelance articles. The last two or three I submitted were accepted, but never published and sat in their files for years. The then-editor told me that they no longer had enough page count to print more than their staff writers produced.


Rocky- I'm at a loss to explain your experience with Wolfe, but my statement was based on actual experience. However, I had a friend who had done outdoor and hunting newspaper columns and articles for many years and later a lot of online magazine material. I suggested he contact Wolfe (about ten or so years ago) and he received the same response you did; that surprised me.

Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,052
M
Campfire Kahuna
Offline
Campfire Kahuna
M
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,052
Originally Posted by RockyRaab
I stopped writing magazine articles when editors stopped using freelance articles. That was nearly 10 years ago. (Oddly enough, I just had a submitted article returned to me that never ran even though the manuscript has numerous editing marks. They were clearing out their files.) My two books still sell a few copies every month even though they were published a decade ago and I have never marketed them. They earn me enough to buy a Happy Meal some months. (I have the prices set at the minimum the publisher allows.)


Rocky,

I noticed the same anti-freelance trend about the same time, even though by then I was a staffer for several magazines. Partly I noticed because some people still aspire to being freelance writers, and ask older writers how to do it. In fact Eileen and I have been teaching a monthly adult-education writing class on how to get published for over a decade, and the process has changed almost entirely since I broke into the business in the 1970s.

As one magazine editor explained it when he retired a decade ago, the magazine business is far more competitive now than it was even 25 years ago--due to competition from various other sources such as TV and the Internet. Many editors simply can't afford to spend the time to read freelance submissions, because editorial staffs have been cut drastically. When I started writing for him there were 14 full-time workers in the editorial office, who put out a 150+ page magazine every month. Today the "magazine" is published quarterly, totally on-line, and may have 2-3 office staffers.

That's one of the more drastic transitions, one I could kinda see coming 20 years ago, when I quit writing for his magazine. But today most magazines simply must use staff-writers who can provide reliable "content," rather than spend time on freelance submissions. (Which brings up a question: How do they find reliable "content providers" when they don't encourage freelancers?)

I broke in by writing stories and sending them to magazines. My first sale was to Sports Illustrated, back when they regularly published hunting and fishing articles, about flyfishing in the winter in Wyoming. They paid me what would be the equivalent of over $2000 today--for a "regional" story that only ran in certain parts of the country. Wrote some more regional pieces for them before selling them a main feature, which paid the equivalent of $6000 today.

That sort of pay doesn't happen often anymore, because the "publishing" pie is split up so many ways--partly into "free content," such as the Campfire. Eileen and I still do okay because we followed some of the new trends, including self-publishing books. In fact our self-published books are now our single largest source of income--but we had also learned through publishing books through several conventional companies about the many ways they can screw writers, and decided to keep that money for ourselves.

The big problem with self-publishing, whether magazines or books or Internet "content," if of course finding ways to get paid (unless, of course, you write to please yourself). It's a whole different business now.




“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.”
John Steinbeck
IC B3

Joined: May 2003
Posts: 31,220
Campfire 'Bwana
Offline
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 31,220
John,

Thanks for the "insider" comments. Your output is exceptional in both quality and quantity. That's not flattery; it's "facttery". People have no idea how arduous writing is and how much time it consumes. One full-length article a month, done every month, is almost a full-time job.

I was successful in getting articles printed in a variety of magazines, starting some 35 years ago. I quickly learned through turned-down proposals that finding niche topics was the way to go for a freelancer. Staff writers got all the current topic assignments - which is and was entirely proper, I hasten to add. Freelancers like me had to find some off-beat topic that was more or less beneath giving to a staffer in order to get even a story idea approved.

After research, obtaining supplies, bench and range work, writing, polishing, photographing, and finally assembling a packaged article it often took months or a year between submission and print. Only then would a check show up in the mail -- sometimes only after tactful reminders. And those were the good old days!

It is probable that newspapers and magazines of all types are soon to be extinct, for the reasons you summarized. A pessimist might also say that the same goes for the shooting sports, but that's less likely. Either way, the job of "gun writer" is moribund.


Cleverly disguised as a responsible adult.

Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 9,709
S
Campfire Outfitter
Offline
Campfire Outfitter
S
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 9,709
Originally Posted by Calhoun
...My book's just a reference book.. plain, straightforward, dry as heck. Just has the data.

Which is what you want in a book you carry through a gun show, tho. Maybe I'll practice my prose for the bigger book. Minored in literature.. put a bit of alcohol in me and I can probably still wax a bit poetic. grin


So your question does not get lost as the thread devolves, let's revisit what you asked. A reference book is not a magazine article about a firearm or hunting trip. It is not outdoor fiction. What you propose is different, but very necessary. Reference books are used daily by many people and are helpful.

Here are a few things to consider.

Are you looking for a publishing house, or do you wish to self publish? From what you said, self publishing might be the way to go. Convincing a publishing house to accept your work is a challenge. They only take on so many books a year, are a business and need to turn a profit. If you approach one, find a publisher that accepts your kind of work. They do not want entire books, so you have to write a proposal. It is not difficult. One page will do. A proposal is a brief outline of your book's purpose and how will be presented. Pictures. Exploded diagrams, etc.

Do you have someone who can review and edit what you've written? Most writers are too close to their work and need someone to edit. Not only for spelling and punctuation, but for flow and structure.

Find someone who has done similar work and ask them questions. Take it offline. Frankly, this probably isn't the best place to ask your questions.

Do not listen to the naysayers or you will never get your project done. smile


Safe Shooting!
Steve Redgwell
www.303british.com

Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please. - Mark Twain
Member - Professional Outdoor Media Association of Canada
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 2,137
3
Campfire Regular
Offline
Campfire Regular
3
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 2,137
Originally Posted by Calhoun
Originally Posted by 300_savage
Hmmm....for maybe the first time, I have to disagree with JB. To be a writer, you need to be able to hear the rhythm of the words you write. Punctuation is important too, but it's not everything. Keith was a writer.....needed editing, but his stories flowed in the reader's mind. O'Connor, JB, and many others can do both. I can do punctuation and grammer, but couldn't write anything others would enjoy reading. To my mind that is the difference.

Well, dang.. that leaves me out. My book's just a reference book.. plain, straightforward, dry as heck. Just has the data.

Which is what you want in a book you carry through a gun show, tho. Maybe I'll practice my prose for the bigger book. Minored in literature.. put a bit of alcohol in me and I can probably still wax a bit poetic. grin

Heck, Calhoun, that may be just what someone needs! And you may have the "gift!"

Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 43,731
Calhoun Offline OP
Campfire 'Bwana
OP Offline
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 43,731
Steve, thanks for the suggestions. I actually started this 3 years ago and listened to a couple new gun book writers who went through the traditional publishing route, printed beautiful books, and were basically screwed by the publisher.

So I went the self-publishing route with a print on demand service. Is it as beautiful? No. Did it have professional editors? No. Will it be distributed to Barnes & Noble and other bookstores? Probably not, those thieves steal all the profit. grin

But I’m in control of revisions; it will be published and sold as long as I leave it up for sale; I’m not tied into horrendous contracts with a publisher; I’m not making pittance per sale while publisher and retail houses rake in all the profits; and the book is available at a good price for collectors. I’ll sell fewer copies, but end up happier.. I think.


The Savage 99 Pocket Reference”.
All models and variations of 1895’s, 1899’s and 99’s covered.
Also dates, checkering, engraving.. Find at www.savagelevers.com
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 2,137
3
Campfire Regular
Offline
Campfire Regular
3
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 2,137
Calhoun, can you tell us what your book is about? May be of interest to folks on the campfire.

Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 9,709
S
Campfire Outfitter
Offline
Campfire Outfitter
S
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 9,709
Originally Posted by Calhoun
Steve, thanks for the suggestions. I actually started this 3 years ago and listened to a couple new gun book writers who went through the traditional publishing route, printed beautiful books, and were basically screwed by the publisher.

So I went the self-publishing route with a print on demand service. Is it as beautiful? No. Did it have professional editors? No. Will it be distributed to Barnes & Noble and other bookstores? Probably not, those thieves steal all the profit. grin

But I’m in control of revisions; it will be published and sold as long as I leave it up for sale; I’m not tied into horrendous contracts with a publisher; I’m not making pittance per sale while publisher and retail houses rake in all the profits; and the book is available at a good price for collectors. I’ll sell fewer copies, but end up happier.. I think.


You're welcome.

Like some, I went the traditional route as well, but because they are businesses, I discovered that compensation for the work was less.

As technology advanced, traditional houses fought back against the computer literate, who decided to go the self publishing route. They called them "vanity publishers" amongst other things. Both can exist in the same space, but it took awhile for them to accept that they no longer had 100% control. The computer age has made it easier to get your word out.

The other concern was getting a publishing house to sign on. Niche books don't make them money. Your work can be top drawer, but will be rejected. You have probably found this out..

Happiness is key. If you don't have a website, you should get one. When you promote it, you will have to grow a thick skin. Using this site as an example, there are a bunch of grumpy Guses who take great pleasure in putting others down. Ignore it and carry on. laugh

All the best!


Safe Shooting!
Steve Redgwell
www.303british.com

Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please. - Mark Twain
Member - Professional Outdoor Media Association of Canada
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 43,731
Calhoun Offline OP
Campfire 'Bwana
OP Offline
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 43,731
Originally Posted by 300_savage
Calhoun, can you tell us what your book is about? May be of interest to folks on the campfire.
Sorry, it’s about Savage 1895’s / 1899’s / 99’s. Available at www.savagelevers.com. I’ll be adding more Savage 99 stuff to the website later, been on vacation in Yellowstone.

Originally Posted by Steve Redgwell
Happiness is key. If you don't have a website, you should get one. When you promote it, you will have to grow a thick skin. Using this site as an example, there are a bunch of grumpy Guses who take great pleasure in putting others down. Ignore it and carry on. laugh

All the best!
That’s exactly what I decided. And being a pocket reference, it has limited info so there will be folks upset it doesn’t have their preferred subjects. I’ll survive the criticism somehow, I think. grin


Cover of the book.. obviously I am not a graphic designer by trade. grin
[Linked Image from ]


The Savage 99 Pocket Reference”.
All models and variations of 1895’s, 1899’s and 99’s covered.
Also dates, checkering, engraving.. Find at www.savagelevers.com
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 17,131
Campfire Ranger
Offline
Campfire Ranger
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 17,131
Originally Posted by Mule Deer
That's one of the more drastic transitions, one I could kinda see coming 20 years ago, when I quit writing for his magazine. But today most magazines simply must use staff-writers who can provide reliable "content," rather than spend time on freelance submissions. (Which brings up a question: How do they find reliable "content providers" when they don't encourage freelancers?)


John (or others)

What do you see for the future of what I refer to as "coffee table magazines" like Grays Sporting Journal, Double Gun Journal and such? While one can read work like that on-line it seems to be a better format in print and They seem to have some room for freelance writers. It would be a shame to lose them.

One of my favorite magazines, Eastern Fly Fishing just became American Fly Fishing and while perhaps a little thicker, it's much diluted in subjects and places I'm interested in and as a result I'll likely drop my subscription.

Allen


If something on the internet makes you angry the odds are you're being manipulated
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 9,709
S
Campfire Outfitter
Offline
Campfire Outfitter
S
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 9,709
www.savagelevers.com

Then you're golden. I am sure that you have spread the word in the Savage section here and other places.

I will add your link to my site.

🙂🙂🙂

Great job!


Safe Shooting!
Steve Redgwell
www.303british.com

Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please. - Mark Twain
Member - Professional Outdoor Media Association of Canada
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 43,731
Calhoun Offline OP
Campfire 'Bwana
OP Offline
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 43,731
Well, that's very kind of you, and thank you very much. I had fun doing it, hopefully folks will get some use out of it.

That's what most of us want from what we do, I think..


The Savage 99 Pocket Reference”.
All models and variations of 1895’s, 1899’s and 99’s covered.
Also dates, checkering, engraving.. Find at www.savagelevers.com
Page 2 of 4 1 2 3 4

Moderated by  RickBin 

Link Copied to Clipboard
AX24

278 members (1beaver_shooter, 1OntarioJim, 160user, 12344mag, 300jimmy, 2UP, 26 invisible), 1,757 guests, and 915 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Statistics
Forums81
Topics1,190,601
Posts18,454,619
Members73,908
Most Online11,491
Jul 7th, 2023


 


Fish & Game Departments | Solunar Tables | Mission Statement | Privacy Policy | Contact Us | DMCA
Hunting | Fishing | Camping | Backpacking | Reloading | Campfire Forums | Gear Shop
Copyright © 2000-2024 24hourcampfire.com, Inc. All Rights Reserved.



Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5
(Release build 20201027)
Responsive Width:

PHP: 7.3.33 Page Time: 0.054s Queries: 15 (0.004s) Memory: 0.9157 MB (Peak: 1.1057 MB) Data Comp: Zlib Server Time: 2024-04-19 11:08:30 UTC
Valid HTML 5 and Valid CSS