Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Savage Collectors Williams FP 99s sights are more rare, apparently, than the older Redfield and Lymans.

I have been looking for the above, for awhile. I would like to pull my Weaver scope off and replace it with the Williams FP 99S. The cleaner look of Williams sight wins out over the other two discontinued sights, in my opinion.

Williams still makes the sight for Marlins and other rifles but not the 99. I don't mind searching every day if they are out there but I'm not sure when they started production and ended. I will send an email to Williams but I know there are members here who are "in-the know."

I will post in the WTB classifieds, if there are no post count restrictions. Mainly looking for information on this sight or other iron sight options for my 1980 99a.

Thanks, for any and all tidbits of information.

I think I have an extra one. Let me check and I'll pm you.

I don't think they are more rare, just less respected in the 99 community. And that makes them less susceptible to selling on the secondary market. However, as far as functionality is concerned they are just as good as anything else for a receiver sight. So if you find one be sure not to spend more money than you would on a Redfield 70 or 80, or a Lyman 57, but be happy knowing you got a fully functional sight at a comparable "bargain" price.

Time was you could snag them on ebay for 50 bucks. Lately I've seen them bring around $150 - some even higher.

Functionally they are equal to the others. Just not 'cool'.

Thanks, for the information. My stock is pretty sleek without the pistol grip and it just seems like a better, cleaner, more modern fit. I'll look for all three and buy whatever seems to be a fair price.

Not desperate because that old Weaver micro-trac works just fine even though it's rather large at 14" and it will be coming off. (1980 99a)

Sorry, checked and have no more left.

I do appreciate your checking.

The journey continues.

After reading the thread you started asking about a Williams FP 99S several times, it finally dawned on me that you are looking for a sight for a rifle with the tang safety. (The old Redfield 70 & 80, the Marbles tang sight, and the Lyman 57 SA mount in the factory drilled tang holes on the lever safety 99s, so they won't work on your rifle.)

I have a virtually new Lyman 57 SB which mounts in the holes on top of the rear receiver (no mounting screws or aperture). I would be willing to part with it for $100 shipped. If you are interested I can take some photos and email them you. I haven't taken the time to figure out how to post photos on this site, so I will need your email address.

Jaaack,

I would like to see pictures. Missing screws I can deal with but the aperture is another story. (Don't even know what it looks like will have to search) Hopefully not hard to find.

I can't PM due to my virgin status so here is my email: [email protected]

Thank you.

http://aperturesnmore.com/

This guy can make you about any aperture you want for about $12

Mounting screws are not a hard problem to solve either. Our friend Lightfoot can probably hook you up. If not plenty of other sources.

Jaaack's offer is very reasonable. He's trying to help you out

I agree. Thanks, for the input.

Jaaack sent me an email with pictures and the sight looks to be in great condition. I will be purchasing the Lyman and foregoing the Williams.

Thank you, all, for your responses.

Lee in Tucson

The screws you need are common 6-48 X 1/4"

Here's a link to an aperture on ebay. This guy has other sizes as well - all at a fair price, ebay

ACE is the place. They have a separate display in the ammo section that I didn't know existed. I was leaving after searching everywhere in the nuts and bolts bins and an employee asked the
size and even knew what the screws were for.

Love ACE. Thanks, for the dimensions Lightfoot.

Good for you!

My local ACE doesn't have that section. Such is life in the Republik...

No ammo at our Ace but do carry common gun screws.

I still can't PM so hopefully 99guy sees this plea for help. I tried to contact "aperturesnmore" but after registering I still couldn't send the contact/query form with my questions. Is this company still in business? To your knowledge. (I was questioning the 1/2" vs. 5/8" option for the Lyman 57SB. Is this the diameter of the knurled part of the aperture?)

I didn't see a phone number for this company on their website.

Update. I did find the company on Ebay that seems active so I'll try there. The website is broke.

http://aperturesnmore.com/

Their web site is still up. Been some years since I have been in contact with them but as I recall the gentleman's name was Joe

Yes, that's the diameter of the knurled part. Functionally there's no difference, but the 1/2" one would maybe be better for hunting. What's more important is getting a suitable aperture diameter. Actually perhaps get a couple since they're so cheap - a pretty small one for target work on a sunny day and a larger aperture for when you find yourself in the deep dark woods.

Some folks like to leave the aperture off the sight entirely when hunting, and rely on the aperture housing hole only - known far and wide as a "ghost ring." Some folks swear by the technique, others swear at it. I tend to fall in the latter group, but hey, whatever works! (I simply like some definition in the rear sight. All too often a ghost ring turns into a "no ring" for me. But now that I think about it, maybe since my cataract surgery gave my eyeball a new lease on life I should re-visit the ghost ring.)

Ghost ring only works for me if it is really, really close to my eye, so it works on some guns, but not on most. If it's too far away and I can't hit a dang thing.

My grandfather hunted without an aperture in the receiver sight for 50+ years. If you could show him hair, he could show you meat.

There were no apertures in WW ll rifles.

A whole generation learned out to shoot without them.

I politely beg to differ. Garands had apertures, as did 1903A3's, and carbines, and SMG's, and Enfields, and...

Unless you're referring to screw in apertures which obviously they didn't have. But the apertures were drilled in relatively big hunks of metal which removed all chance of them being called "ghost rings". The nastiest aperture of them all was the tiny hole drilled in the staff slide of the '03 Springfield. Try looking through one of those buggers mounted way up on the barrel.

So how is a Lyman 57 or Redfield 70 or Lyman 30 1/2 without a screw in aperture any different from an M1 Garand or M1 carbine sight?

I've shot them all extensively. I can clearly see the outline of the back sight hole on all of them. None of them qualifies as a ghost ring sight by my definition.

You look through the hole and your eye instinctively centers the front sight.

The size of the hole may be different, I but see absolutely no difference in the method or results.

I think we are splitting hairs on the language.

Thanks 99guy and others for the replies. I know this thread is old but I bought a Rem788 6mm and have been playing with that for a year. I completely forgot about the 99 and needing some apertures just to try them out at 300.

This rifle, the 99 in .308, is the best shouldering rifle I have. You just throw it up and that ghostly ring is right there with front sight centered. Every time. Love this thing. Like the 788 but love the 99. Thanks, again for the replies.

Aperature size makes a huge difference in my shooting. Too big and I generally can't hit a barn from the inside, too small and it's hard to see anything unless it's a sunny day.

Because the Garand, carbine, et al sights comprise a lot more metal around their apertures than you find on a Lyman or Redfield minus their screw-in apertures. The milsurp sights present much as a commercial sight does with a small outside diameter screw-in aperture in place. I'm sitting here right now with a Garand on my lap and two rifles with Lyman sights and one with a Redfield sight setting beside me, all three sans screw-in apertures. The Garand rear sight is well defined with a distinct sharp thick black circle around the aperture as seen when shooting, the three commercial sights are a blurry quite indistinct whispy halo around the aperture as seen in shooting position, and in fact when I switch from viewing through the picture window out into the sunshine to sighting in the shadows of this room, the "ghost ring" disappears entirely. The Garand sight presents a very usable sight picture in the shadows though, due to the fact it has a much larger mass of metal surrounding the aperture. It confirms what I said earlier regarding my opinion of ghost rings - and note I said my opinion, everyone's eyes are different.

I'll concede "minute of deer roast" accuracy with a receiver sight sans screw-in aperture, but for close range rough-and-tumble hunting, in decent light. For my money though, I'll screw in an aperture and be prepared for all occasions.

I'll add, Randy, that your Grandfather probably could've hit his deer with no rear sight at all. Instinctive shooters walk among us. I knew old guys who regularly filled their tags with 12 gauge shotguns w/slugs, with just the front beads as aiming devices.

I've mentioned before a darned good invention called the Merit Adjustable Iris screw-in aperture. The diameter of the aperture (iris) was infinitely adjustable from wide open "drive a BMW through it" down to a tiny pinprick-sized hole, exactly like the apertures in old camera lenses (remember them?). It truly was/is the most versatile appendage one could screw into his receiver/tang sight, making it adaptable for every conceivable situation. Sadly Merit is out of business now but the devices are routinely found on the used market, albeit expensively. But, one of them replaces a pocket full of screw-in apertures of varying diameters, so the cost evens out.

There's also rotating disks with several size holes giving you options on aperture size.

Apropos of gnoahhh's comment about the Merit Adjustable Aperture, it turns out that Skinner Sights is currently selling the Merit #4 Hunting Adjustable Aperture on an "on again, off again" basis. Apparently, one of the offspring of the founder of Merit Apertures is manufacturing the #4 in small lots and allowing Skinner to sell them. At the present time they are back ordered but Skinner will allow prospective purchasers to put their name on a waiting list for "first come, first served." I'm going to put my name on the list in hopes of getting one of the #4s to go with a 30-1/2 that I have. Hope this helps those who might be interested.

I was referring to the absence of screw in apertures on Garands and Carbines. I love shooting Garands and Carbines, especially Garands. But I don't know how GI's fought with them after sunset or before sunrise, unless they used them as clubs and spears.

As it regards hunting rifles, I or others may see the back sight when others may not. Everybody's eyes are different. Even approaching 60, I have no trouble seeing the silhouette of the back sight on Lyman or Redfield sights without the screw in apertures. Growing up in upstate NY in the 70's and my early deer hunting experience being almost exclusively via the deer drive, most of the deer you saw and shot at were running. And almost everybody was shooting repeating rifles with receiver sights less the screw in aperture.

IMO and experience large apertures are better as it regards shooting at moving game or in low light or both. The fact that you can see the backsight, the front sight and the whole deer through the aperture is precisely what make the large aperture more accurate in that circumstance. When you pick the gun up your eye see's 3 things instantaneously, the back aperture hole, the front sight and the target. And it's important that it sees the whole target and not just a piece of it. Your brain instantly calculates the shot, like a MLB hitter's brain instantly calculates how to hit a 95 mph fastball. In that instance when looking through a smaller aperture your field of view is too small to make a precise shot. Kind of like trying to find a running deer in a 4x scope vs a 12x scope.

Small aperture holes may be better for shooting in good light at a stationary target from a solid rest or sandbags. I will concede that point.

I don't believe that anybody that doesn't see the back sight (ghost ring) can shoot as well as somebody that can see it. I believe that the reason my grandfather was such a good shot at running game with a rifle was because he could see the back sight when others perhaps couldn't. I don't think he ever put a pair of glasses on his face until he was in his 70's. He was aiming when they were pointing.

I'm not trying to be argumentative; just sharing my viewpoints and experiences.

I enjoy reading about the older sighting systems and the opinions of those that have actually used them. Most of all, taking a 14" scope off these old guns really cleans them up in my opinion.

And then you have me sticking 18” scopes on 20” barrels, but that can be a discussion for another day.