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You could be right, and I could be wrong. But the bolt handle is clearly one piece with the portion of the bolt its attached to; they weren't two separate pieces brazed together, like the Remington 700. They are cast together. Now, it could be that there are two bolt sections brazed together, one piece with the handle on it. If that's the case, and I admit it could be, Winchester is doing a phenomenal job. I looked at all 4 bolts under a 90X jewelers glass and there is not the slightest hint of a gap/joint between pieces, or the 'overflow' of brazing material, which is visible on brazed joints on Remington 700s. They are perfectly mated together. As you know, the Remington 700 bolt is a three piece bolt. The head is brazed on, too. On all of my 700s, while there are no gaps between pieces, joints are evident. There is brazing material visible at the joints of the parts brazed together.
So, if I added to any misunderstanding, I apologize. I wanted to point out that the handle and the bolt are one piece (unlike the 700) but concede what I meant may not be what someone else meant by one piece. I think it's clear to anyone, though, that the design is very superior to the 700 design, and any fears that the bolt handle is somehow a weak link in the design is unfounded.
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I don't know when it changed. I understand the post-64s were two piece, as well as ther 1992 classics. It went back to a one piece sometime when the traditional M70s were made, either in SC or Portugal. Here's photos of some of the boltsa from my other Portuguese M70s. Clearly, the handles and bolt bodies are one piece. Based on that picture, to me it appears to be a two-piece bolt/bolt body. The bolt handle (and the small bolt bodied cylindrical piece), has a pock-marked surface, while the bolt body itself is "smooth". They were finished to two different endpoints, likely as there were two separate pieces made/finished in two separate processes and quality control standards, then joined together. That is my interpretation of the picture. It does not look like the bolt handle and bolt body were made from one contiguous piece of steel, and then surface-finished to the same quality control standard.
"Behavior accepted is behavior repeated."
"Strive to be underestimated."
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That could be. There appear to be faint lathe marks on the bolt body up to the point of the handle. I guess there could be a way to spin a one piece bolt with handle on a lathe, but it seems to me there would need to be a counter weight to the handle. I'm not a machinist. More photos posted here: https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/16316711#Post16316711
Last edited by 10Glocks; 08/06/21.
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The bolts are two piece and have been since 1964. They are attached better than a 700, but never the less are two piece. Forum member Greydog was a Winchester warranty gunsmith in Canada that repaired quit a few that have failed.
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Okay, so I agree it's a two piece design,. My mistake was assuming that the original concern was that the handle was tacked on like the Remington 700. It obviously isn't. The handle is one piece with a collar that slips onto the bolt body, and the collar is brazed on. (IMO superior to the Remington 700. The contact area of the brazed collar is significantly greater than the contact area where the 700 handle meets the bolt.) I also said there is no evidence of brazing material and I think I am wrong there, too. My mistake there was believing the brazing material would be like that seen on the Remington 700 - a metallic bronze color. But the Winchester apparently uses copper. And I believe there is evidence of that in that area. One of my bolts has some turquoise coloring in that area that might be some left over copper, maybe some overflow, or from copper infused flux, that looks like it was perhaps polished then blued resulting in the bluing salts oxidizing the copper into its tell-tale turquoise color. That turquoise showed up on one of the earlier pictures I posted. I do wonder about the "quite a few" assertion. Unlike the Remington 700, I yet to come across any proven account of an M70 bolt failing. Even failure of the 700 bolts are few and far between, usually involving abusive practices, or home-gunsmithing that resulted in a weakened joint.
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Okay, so I agree it's a two piece design,. My mistake was assuming that the original concern was that the handle was tacked on like the Remington 700. It obviously isn't. The handle is one piece with a collar that slips onto the bolt body, and the collar is brazed on. (IMO superior to the Remington 700. The contact area of the brazed collar is significantly greater than the contact area where the 700 handle meets the bolt.) I also said there is no evidence of brazing material and I think I am wrong there, too. My mistake there was believing the brazing material would be like that seen on the Remington 700 - a metallic bronze color. But the Winchester apparently uses copper. And I believe there is evidence of that in that area. One of my bolts has some turquoise coloring in that area that might be some left over copper, maybe some overflow, or from copper infused flux, that looks like it was perhaps polished then blued resulting in the bluing salts oxidizing the copper into its tell-tale turquoise color. That turquoise showed up on one of the earlier pictures I posted. I do wonder about the "quite a few" assertion. Unlike the Remington 700, I yet to come across any proven account of an M70 bolt failing. Even failure of the 700 bolts are few and far between, usually involving abusive practices, or home-gunsmithing that resulted in a weakened joint. Why don't you PM Greydog. He's seen more than a few. https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/15143538/m70-bolt-failure
Last edited by BWalker; 08/07/21.
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Perhaps you should consider rephrasing that statement.
Last edited by High_Noon; 08/08/21.
l told my pap and mam I was going to be a mountain man; acted like they was gut-shot. Make your life go here. Here's where the peoples is. Mother Gue, I says, the Rocky Mountains is the marrow of the world, and by God, I was right. - Del Gue
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Kudos to R Grouse with respect to the pre-64 Model 70s. For hunting in really demanding conditions like Alaska, iron sights are a practical if not a sine qua non feature. My standard and former wildcat M-70s are for larger big game. Weather and tough terrain have not disturbed their utility. Even Griffin & Howe side mounts with Leupold or Lyman Alaskan scopes work with fascinating reliability in inhospitable country.
If the pre-64 M-70 was that dated an action or rifle, why do custom rifle makers seek that action and the Mauser over most newer existing designs? Like the Filson coat label states : "Might as well have the best".
"The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena-not the critic"-T. Roosevelt There are no atheists in fox holes or in the open doors of a para's aircraft.....
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More than a few? 3 or 4 from Remington and Winchester in 13 years. That's pretty much the definition of "a few."
Last edited by 10Glocks; 08/11/21.
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How does one tell a used South Carolina gun from a Portugal gun, assuming no box, no hang tag, just seeing one on the rack?
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Barrel markings. Portugal gun will say Made in Portugal. Other than that and serial number, hard to tell unless it’s a muzzle brake model.
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Barrel markings. Portugal gun will say Made in Portugal. Other than that and serial number, hard to tell unless it’s a muzzle brake model. Thanks!
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