24hourcampfire.com
24hourcampfire.com
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
Page 3 of 3 1 2 3
Joined: Nov 2020
Posts: 4,491
Campfire Tracker
Offline
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Nov 2020
Posts: 4,491
You could be right, and I could be wrong. But the bolt handle is clearly one piece with the portion of the bolt its attached to; they weren't two separate pieces brazed together, like the Remington 700. They are cast together. Now, it could be that there are two bolt sections brazed together, one piece with the handle on it. If that's the case, and I admit it could be, Winchester is doing a phenomenal job. I looked at all 4 bolts under a 90X jewelers glass and there is not the slightest hint of a gap/joint between pieces, or the 'overflow' of brazing material, which is visible on brazed joints on Remington 700s. They are perfectly mated together. As you know, the Remington 700 bolt is a three piece bolt. The head is brazed on, too. On all of my 700s, while there are no gaps between pieces, joints are evident. There is brazing material visible at the joints of the parts brazed together.

So, if I added to any misunderstanding, I apologize. I wanted to point out that the handle and the bolt are one piece (unlike the 700) but concede what I meant may not be what someone else meant by one piece. I think it's clear to anyone, though, that the design is very superior to the 700 design, and any fears that the bolt handle is somehow a weak link in the design is unfounded.

BP-B2

Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,416
B
Campfire Regular
Offline
Campfire Regular
B
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,416
Originally Posted by 10Glocks
I don't know when it changed. I understand the post-64s were two piece, as well as ther 1992 classics. It went back to a one piece sometime when the traditional M70s were made, either in SC or Portugal.

Here's photos of some of the boltsa from my other Portuguese M70s.

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

Clearly, the handles and bolt bodies are one piece.


Based on that picture, to me it appears to be a two-piece bolt/bolt body. The bolt handle (and the small bolt bodied cylindrical piece), has a pock-marked surface, while the bolt body itself is "smooth". They were finished to two different endpoints, likely as there were two separate pieces made/finished in two separate processes and quality control standards, then joined together. That is my interpretation of the picture. It does not look like the bolt handle and bolt body were made from one contiguous piece of steel, and then surface-finished to the same quality control standard.


"Behavior accepted is behavior repeated."

"Strive to be underestimated."
Joined: Nov 2020
Posts: 4,491
Campfire Tracker
Offline
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Nov 2020
Posts: 4,491
That could be. There appear to be faint lathe marks on the bolt body up to the point of the handle. I guess there could be a way to spin a one piece bolt with handle on a lathe, but it seems to me there would need to be a counter weight to the handle. I'm not a machinist.

More photos posted here:

https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/16316711#Post16316711

Last edited by 10Glocks; 08/06/21.
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 9,469
B
Campfire Outfitter
Offline
Campfire Outfitter
B
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 9,469
The bolts are two piece and have been since 1964. They are attached better than a 700, but never the less are two piece. Forum member Greydog was a Winchester warranty gunsmith in Canada that repaired quit a few that have failed.

Joined: Nov 2020
Posts: 4,491
Campfire Tracker
Offline
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Nov 2020
Posts: 4,491
Okay, so I agree it's a two piece design,. My mistake was assuming that the original concern was that the handle was tacked on like the Remington 700. It obviously isn't. The handle is one piece with a collar that slips onto the bolt body, and the collar is brazed on. (IMO superior to the Remington 700. The contact area of the brazed collar is significantly greater than the contact area where the 700 handle meets the bolt.)

I also said there is no evidence of brazing material and I think I am wrong there, too. My mistake there was believing the brazing material would be like that seen on the Remington 700 - a metallic bronze color. But the Winchester apparently uses copper. And I believe there is evidence of that in that area. One of my bolts has some turquoise coloring in that area that might be some left over copper, maybe some overflow, or from copper infused flux, that looks like it was perhaps polished then blued resulting in the bluing salts oxidizing the copper into its tell-tale turquoise color. That turquoise showed up on one of the earlier pictures I posted.

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

I do wonder about the "quite a few" assertion. Unlike the Remington 700, I yet to come across any proven account of an M70 bolt failing. Even failure of the 700 bolts are few and far between, usually involving abusive practices, or home-gunsmithing that resulted in a weakened joint.

IC B2

Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 9,469
B
Campfire Outfitter
Offline
Campfire Outfitter
B
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 9,469
Originally Posted by 10Glocks
Okay, so I agree it's a two piece design,. My mistake was assuming that the original concern was that the handle was tacked on like the Remington 700. It obviously isn't. The handle is one piece with a collar that slips onto the bolt body, and the collar is brazed on. (IMO superior to the Remington 700. The contact area of the brazed collar is significantly greater than the contact area where the 700 handle meets the bolt.)

I also said there is no evidence of brazing material and I think I am wrong there, too. My mistake there was believing the brazing material would be like that seen on the Remington 700 - a metallic bronze color. But the Winchester apparently uses copper. And I believe there is evidence of that in that area. One of my bolts has some turquoise coloring in that area that might be some left over copper, maybe some overflow, or from copper infused flux, that looks like it was perhaps polished then blued resulting in the bluing salts oxidizing the copper into its tell-tale turquoise color. That turquoise showed up on one of the earlier pictures I posted.

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

I do wonder about the "quite a few" assertion. Unlike the Remington 700, I yet to come across any proven account of an M70 bolt failing. Even failure of the 700 bolts are few and far between, usually involving abusive practices, or home-gunsmithing that resulted in a weakened joint.

Why don't you PM Greydog. He's seen more than a few.

https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/15143538/m70-bolt-failure

Last edited by BWalker; 08/07/21.
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 8,793
Campfire Outfitter
Offline
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 8,793
Originally Posted by ruffedgrouse
we all like nice wood.

Perhaps you should consider rephrasing that statement.

Last edited by High_Noon; 08/08/21.

l told my pap and mam I was going to be a mountain man; acted like they was gut-shot. Make your life go here. Here's where the peoples is. Mother Gue, I says, the Rocky Mountains is the marrow of the world, and by God, I was right.
- Del Gue
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 668
Campfire Regular
Offline
Campfire Regular
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 668
Kudos to R Grouse with respect to the pre-64 Model 70s. For hunting in really demanding conditions
like Alaska, iron sights are a practical if not a sine qua non feature. My standard and former wildcat
M-70s are for larger big game. Weather and tough terrain have not disturbed their utility. Even Griffin & Howe side mounts
with Leupold or Lyman Alaskan scopes work with fascinating reliability in inhospitable country.

If the pre-64 M-70 was that dated an action or rifle, why do custom rifle makers seek that action and the Mauser
over most newer existing designs? Like the Filson coat label states : "Might as well have the best".


"The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena-not the critic"-T. Roosevelt
There are no atheists in fox holes or in the open doors of a para's aircraft.....
Joined: Nov 2020
Posts: 4,491
Campfire Tracker
Offline
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Nov 2020
Posts: 4,491
Originally Posted by BWalker


More than a few? 3 or 4 from Remington and Winchester in 13 years. That's pretty much the definition of "a few."

Last edited by 10Glocks; 08/11/21.
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 1,796
I
Campfire Regular
Offline
Campfire Regular
I
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 1,796
How does one tell a used South Carolina gun from a Portugal gun, assuming no box, no hang tag, just seeing one on the rack?

IC B3

Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 17,585
A
Campfire Ranger
Offline
Campfire Ranger
A
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 17,585
Barrel markings.
Portugal gun will say Made in Portugal.
Other than that and serial number, hard to tell unless it’s a muzzle brake model.

Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 1,796
I
Campfire Regular
Offline
Campfire Regular
I
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 1,796
Originally Posted by AKwolverine
Barrel markings.
Portugal gun will say Made in Portugal.
Other than that and serial number, hard to tell unless it’s a muzzle brake model.


Thanks!

Page 3 of 3 1 2 3

Moderated by  RickBin 

Link Copied to Clipboard
YB23

Who's Online Now
702 members (10gaugemag, 17CalFan, 12344mag, 1936M71, 160user, 10gaugeman, 62 invisible), 3,142 guests, and 1,273 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Statistics
Forums81
Topics1,187,744
Posts18,401,246
Members73,822
Most Online11,491
Jul 7th, 2023


 







Fish & Game Departments | Solunar Tables | Mission Statement | Privacy Policy | Contact Us | DMCA
Hunting | Fishing | Camping | Backpacking | Reloading | Campfire Forums | Gear Shop
Copyright © 2000-2024 24hourcampfire.com, Inc. All Rights Reserved.
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5
(Release build 20201027)
Responsive Width:

PHP: 7.3.33 Page Time: 0.093s Queries: 15 (0.006s) Memory: 0.8628 MB (Peak: 0.9759 MB) Data Comp: Zlib Server Time: 2024-03-29 14:09:57 UTC
Valid HTML 5 and Valid CSS