I started using an IC over skeet on upland game back in the mid 90s when I lived in Eastern Washington. I hunted pheasants, chukar, huns, quail and grouse and shot a lot of decoyed ducks. At the time my only shotgun was a Beretta 686 O/U. When I got a 686 28 gauge I continued with the IC over skeet. It always worked well hunting over my Brittany. As I accumulated more shotguns, those with interchangeable chokes normally go afield with the same combination. The single barrels usually have a skeet or IC in them. I carry either the 37 or a Browning Lightning 16 and you guessed it, the choke tubes in it are IC over skeet.
Now I hunt ptarmigan and grouse with a bunch of different shotguns. Again IC over skeet in the guns with interchangeable chokes. The only exceptions are those guns with fixed chokes. My old Lefever is M/F, my Dad's 20 gauge 37 is modified and my 24 gauge is M/F. I think. My 37 16 is choked IC.
I cannot say I've ever felt handicapped with a skeet choke for upland game. I shoot over a pointing dog. If one has a flusher nicknamed 25-06 because of his or her proclivity to flush at distances where a rifle would be more effective, then perhaps a skeet choke would be a handicap.
Chronographs, bore scopes and pattern boards have broke a lot of hearts.
I have a 16 sxs that was ic & mod and I was going to open up the ic barrel over did it to cylinder, best combination i have ever used for woodcock, ruffed grouse, and ringnecks, have a 59 winchester that is cylinder super bird gun. If you feel you need more range do as the English , just use larger size shot. More birds are missed by too much choke.
For the first couple of weekends of sharptail season, when the weather is hot and young birds flush in bunches right under my feet, skeet is my favorite choke. IC works too, but skjet is a tad more open. Later I move to light modified or modified.
I have a 16 sxs that was ic & mod and I was going to open up the ic barrel over did it to cylinder, best combination i have ever used for woodcock, ruffed grouse, and ringnecks, have a 59 winchester that is cylinder super bird gun. If you feel you need more range do as the English , just use larger size shot. More birds are missed by too much choke.
More birds may be hit by an open choke...But a weak fringe means more are crippled...
The Brits are famous for using two chokes...."modeeefied and Modeefied"
Some knowledgeable shotgun shooter once said..."We usually miss by feet...and chokes only give us inches"
Point well and chokes mean little out to where most of us are consistent...Don't point well....and open chokes result in more cripples...
Then there are large Birds (Pheasants, Geese) and small Birds (Doves, Quail) and the best choke at a given range may not be the same for both.
Is the same choke for a given yardage, the best if a Pheasant is showing vitals or giving you nothing but rear to shoot at? More choke...in the Uplands... is rarely a handicap...
Skeet is the best for skeet, where the range is a consistent 23-25 yards and chips count..Chips in the Uplands where the range is often more are cripples...
I think open chokes have better pellet distribution on the pattern fringes than tighter chokes. You do need to use them at the ranges they are intended for. I've had fewer cripples with early season birds since I went to skeet and IC. Later, when 35 to 45 yard shots are the norm, I use light modified or modified. Really late season sharptails tend to flush wild and all in one bunch, and then full is probably best....but that is where weak fringe pattern densities at the longer ranges cause cripples in my experience.
Friend of mine uses a 97 Winchester 12 gauge with true cylindar, 1.25 oz of #6. Out to 35 yards he seldom misses, and the birds fall dead. He passes on longer shots.
I have a 16 sxs that was ic & mod and I was going to open up the ic barrel over did it to cylinder, best combination i have ever used for woodcock, ruffed grouse, and ringnecks, have a 59 winchester that is cylinder super bird gun. If you feel you need more range do as the English , just use larger size shot. More birds are missed by too much choke.
More birds may be hit by an open choke...But a weak fringe means more are crippled...
The Brits are famous for using two chokes...."modeeefied and Modeefied"
Some knowledgeable shotgun shooter once said..."We usually miss by feet...and chokes only give us inches"
Point well and chokes mean little out to where most of us are consistent...Don't point well....and open chokes result in more cripples...
Then there are large Birds (Pheasants, Geese) and small Birds (Doves, Quail) and the best choke at a given range may not be the same for both.
Is the same choke for a given yardage, the best if a Pheasant is showing vitals or giving you nothing but rear to shoot at? More choke...in the Uplands... is rarely a handicap...
Skeet is the best for skeet, where the range is a consistent 23-25 yards and chips count..Chips in the Uplands where the range is often more are cripples...
I remember watching a friend & mentor compete in a 3 way shoot off after 2 days of Sporting Clays.
After each had shot at 3 or 4 longer distances, I noticed that my friend hadn’t changed chokes ,to tighten up for the increased distance. Their last round was at 60+ yards, they had started at 35-40 yards.
When I asked him what choke he had used, I expected Light Modified, but he replied Skeet. They are still hot in the Center even though it’s further out. The other 2 were changing chokes for each distance of the shoot off. I learned something that day.
What you should have learned is clay targets are fragile, and combined with the centrifugal force of their spinning will often give fringe hits the appearance of a solid center punch.
Gamebirds at distance are obviously different. At distance they are not all that fragile when it comes to a few pellet strikes. At distance, penetration has decreased dramatically, and what will often will bring them down is the hotter center core of a tighter choke and the increased blunt force of multiple hits with large shot. Hot in the center is relative.....tighter chokes have additional pellets in the center.
Having hunted upland birds for decades, taught dozens of people to shoot competitively and guided on pheasants with my wonderful dogs for years, I would say that your average hunter will wound more birds with a modified choke than he will with a skeet choke. He will also destroy some with the mod choke when he happens to center the breast in his pattern.
However, shoot a rain-puddle at 60 yards with your skeet choke sometime, where you can see every pellet strike -- there is no "hot center" and your pattern is 20 feet wide. Its inappropriateness for that distance will be immediately obvious.
I think the appropriate choke for most upland birds ( that are flushing away from the gun ) is dependant on the reaction time of the shooter. If you have quick reflexes, and are hunting over a pointing dog, an open choke works best. Skeet choke is a very good choice for such shooters. But others, who are more deliberate, who are flushing their own birds or just plain slow, should use modified or even full.
And another observation - people put a lot of faith in the markings on barrels and choke tubes. What's written there doesn't mean as much as most folks would like to believe. For instance, have a Browning Citori 16 ga. that has invector choke tubes. The "Skeet" choke is light modified diameter, and is certainly tighter than the Improved Cylinder. Measured fact, with a Skeet's bore gauge purchased from Brownell's. And confirmed with patterns on paper. I have two such choke tubes so It's not an exception of one. I shoot quick, and I often hunt with that gun fitted with IC in the bottom and Skeet in the top, even for open country late season sharptails and huns and pheasant. Works for me.
The first Ithaca 37 I got I gave a full makeover when I was in trade school. Restocked, polished and reblued, Polychoke chopped off and threaded it for tubes. I saved up the considerable, for a starving student, scratch to buy a light mod, mod, full, and maybe an improved cylinder tube. They were Carlson’s and pretty spendy. I screwed the light modified in and went to the skeet field, shot well so left it in for hunting season. 16 years later and it’s still in there. I have absolutely no idea what happened to the other tubes but I know I never screwed any of them into the barrel.
I have a 16 gauge Winchester 21, bored Skeet #1 & Skeet #2. With good quality shells (bought or hand loaded) I have found it to be deadly on all the upland birds that I hunt (pheasants, sharptails, & Huns), I hunt over a pointing dog, so keep that in mind too.
I will say that I tend to shoot larger shot than most though. #5's seem to work the best for me.
I think the appropriate choke for most upland birds ( that are flushing away from the gun ) is dependant on the reaction time of the shooter. If you have quick reflexes, and are hunting over a pointing dog, an open choke works best. Skeet choke is a very good choice for such shooters. But others, who are more deliberate, who are flushing their own birds or just plain slow, should use modified or even full.
And another observation - people put a lot of faith in the markings on barrels and choke tubes. What's written there doesn't mean as much as most folks would like to believe. For instance, have a Browning Citori 16 ga. that has invector choke tubes. The "Skeet" choke is light modified diameter, and is certainly tighter than the Improved Cylinder. Measured fact, with a Skeet's bore gauge purchased from Brownell's. And confirmed with patterns on paper. I have two such choke tubes so It's not an exception of one. I shoot quick, and I often hunt with that gun fitted with IC in the bottom and Skeet in the top, even for open country late season sharptails and huns and pheasant. Works for me.
I agree. As for a Browning Citori 16ga, I just took possession of a Gr I Hunter (2021 Shot Show Special). The included Invector chokes are anything but as marked. To say that there was any consistency as to how they perform, i.e. tighter or more open as compared to the marking would be a falsehood. Based on my patterning testing #6 lead and the included choke, the IC is closer to Cyl; the M more like F, and the F is beyond extra F. Briley will be getting a call in the very near future.
I never thought I'd grow up to be a grumpy old man, but I did, and I'm killin' it.
I have a Turkish built Dickinson Estate SxS 16 that came with Cyl, IC, Mod, IM, and full tubes. The Cyl tube measures .003 constriction(skeet) and each of the others are at least that much tighter than nominal. I use the Cyl and IC for most hunting, but switch to IC for wild public access pheasants.
I think the appropriate choke for most upland birds ( that are flushing away from the gun ) is dependant on the reaction time of the shooter. If you have quick reflexes, and are hunting over a pointing dog, an open choke works best. Skeet choke is a very good choice for such shooters. But others, who are more deliberate, who are flushing their own birds or just plain slow, should use modified or even full.
And another observation - people put a lot of faith in the markings on barrels and choke tubes. What's written there doesn't mean as much as most folks would like to believe. For instance, have a Browning Citori 16 ga. that has invector choke tubes. The "Skeet" choke is light modified diameter, and is certainly tighter than the Improved Cylinder. Measured fact, with a Skeet's bore gauge purchased from Brownell's. And confirmed with patterns on paper. I have two such choke tubes so It's not an exception of one. I shoot quick, and I often hunt with that gun fitted with IC in the bottom and Skeet in the top, even for open country late season sharptails and huns and pheasant. Works for me.
I agree. As for a Browning Citori 16ga, I just took possession of a Gr I Hunter (2021 Shot Show Special). The included Invector chokes are anything but as marked. To say that there was any consistency as to how they perform, i.e. tighter or more open as compared to the marking would be a falsehood. Based on my patterning testing #6 lead and the included choke, the IC is closer to Cyl; the M more like F, and the F is beyond extra F. Briley will be getting a call in the very near future.
Your 16 gauge Citori factory choke observations are exactly the same as mine. My gun is a 28” Superlight from about 2013. The I/C miked .006” constriction (about where it should be), while the M measured .008”; the F was way tighter, .035”. They are concentrically bored (pattern centers are where they should be). I bought a set of Brileys several years ago, so all is well now. I find LM/IM pretty much stay in the gun all the time.
SK = .005" IC = .010" LM = .015" M = .020" IM = .025" F = .030" XF = .035"
Those constructions are pretty tight for a 16 gauge, in my experience. My 1959 Winchester Model 12 16 gauge with 28” modified choke barrel has .011” of choke constriction. It also checks out in performance on game, clay targets and a pattern board. Another factory original 16 gauge gun, this one a Browning Sweet Sixteen with 28” modified choke barrel shoots noticeably tighter, with it’s .018” of choke, more like an improved modified. I shoot high quality ammo, most of which I handload, that has very hard shot.
The Citori Superlight 16 gauge to which I earlier alluded shoots a bit tighter than the Briley replacement tubes are marked. The original I/C choke performs as it should, while the M choke is definitely quite open. I don’t have a Browning SK choke for this gun, but I am not surprised by what castnblast reports about it throwing much tighter patterns.
Choke really isn’t about constriction but pattern performance, which is further complicated by the three dimensional nature of the shot string. Shooting good ammo with hard shot (I could care less about high velocity) is the best hedge we have.
