Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters 35 Whelen with modern powder and bullets...?

here is Barnes data for 200 and 225 grain ttsx bullets

https://www.barnesbullets.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/35WhelenWeb.pdf

Dammmmm... I chronographed some factory loaded 250 gr 358 Norma Mag at 2630fps out of a 22" barrel. They were rated at 2799 unspecified barrel length on the card that came in the box signed by Kerstin. Since the same powders seem to work in the Norma as the Whelen I'll betcha the Norma can be boosted as well. Will be trying MR2000 & CFE223 in both Whelen & Norma when the weather cools down a bit. Who needs an STA?

HA!! That is exactly the same way I got to my load! Great minds work alike, obviously! Here's a discussion on another forum where I posted my load work with 200 TTSX and Varmint:
My 200 TTSX Varmint load development
Cheers,
Rex
EDIT - when you go to that link you'll have to scroll through a bunch of yammering to find the posts of mine outlining the load development...

Hahaha. Great minds or two fools in the same ship. Hard to tell!

Well, I found an 8lb'er of PP2000 for sale so I may have to give it a shot!

I have my 7600 Whelen, M700 Whelen and the 9.3x62 I will give it a whirl in. So far, RL15 has been my go to, it'll be interesting to see how PP2000 does.

Wish I could find some more. Called the store I got it from and they are sold out. I messed up and dumped what MR2000 was in my Chargemaster into a jug of H4350! Still have a little in my original pound jug but could sure use some more.

Accuracy testing of my 66 grain load with the 250 speer was ho hum today. Looks like the average of (4) 3 shot groups is going to be 1.4 MOA with pretty even dispersion. Not great but certainly usable for what I intend to point it at.

Intersting reading this, I have been killing moose and caribou for over a decade, from 80 yds to 500 yds, using mr 2000 in the 9.3x62

It's not new. It is dense and you can fit a lot of it in a standard case. Though you may achieve a smidgen more velocity, it won't do a fkn thing more in the field over rl 15, or any similar burn rate powder.

Also, no standard medium bore rifle will need a ballistic tip, or a boat tail. Flat base 250 spitzers are my choice.

Heck, even 300 grain spitzers hit the moose and caribou out to 400 and 500 yds.

ttt

Just adding my .02$. I’ve ran and worked up Speers load for the 250 and PP 2000MR. I found iit accurate,safe and easy to load. I chrony the load and I was getting everything they claimed and a wee bit more out of my 23” Shilen barrel. I rounded the load down to the nearest grain and was averaging 2715 FPS. And getting groups averaging around 3/4” at 100 yards. Recoil was very civilized and nothing more than any other Whelen load.

I loaded 68 grains of Power Pro Varmint behind the 180 TTSX and recorded 3231 FPS out of my 28" barrel 1885 Highwall.

I’m not sure of the year I got my first 350 Rem Mag, but it was around 1969. The only jacketed loads I’ve used are 250 grain Interlock, partition and hot core. I’ve shot at paper with lighter bullets but just paper.
The most accurate powders are H4895, IMR4320 and 748, so far.
I stopped using 748 hunting as I found it unstable temperature wise.
I think the 350 to be close, very close to the Whelen. Sure it has a shorter neck, and a sharper shoulder, but still very close.
I finally got my hands on a 35 Whelen - a re-barreled pre-64. So far I’ve just been shooting it off-hand - practicing. It might go hunting this fall.
I’m sort of a heavy for the caliber guy, so for now I’ll be shooting 250 or 250+ grain bullets, primarily Interlocks. If Hornady stops making that bullet in interlock I’ll be switching to hot core or partition. I will not be pushing the envelope on pressure. Nothing like hot gases coming back to one’s face to help cure a person of that. Besides having the frustration of a empty case stick in a chamber as the 30 point buck is scampering over the hill top.
Some other powders I’ll be trying RE-15, TAC, and IMR4064 or IMR 4461.

My first 35 Whelan was a Mod 700 Classic bought in '95, 2nd hand. I had been reading Gary Sitton articles on the Ackley Imp. He liked short barrels and wanted 2600/250gr out of a 20" Mauser, so went with the AI. I forget his load, but I liked Ackley rounds ( had one previous to this in 257 Roberts AI.) I sent the rifle off to Gary Stiles for the rechamber job, had a local man put a Decelerator pad on it, added a Leupold 1.5x5 on it. I fireformed 100 new Remington 35 Whelan cases (I liked Boddington's moose kill with the Mod 700 Whelan too, so brass was available.) I also wanted the headstamp as I was going to South Africa in '96. I used a warm load of 4895 with the Speer 220 jammed into the lands. I fired those 100rds doing hunting position practice out to 100yds, 20 a week. Followed with 50rds from a scoped Marlin .22 Magnum, every week. I still have brass!
Barnes had their first Load Manual out, and I just used their load data. I wanted the 250X and I ended with 53.5gr of the old BR2015, Remington primers. It clocked from 2550 to 2600, shot very accurate. This was the factory 1/16 twist too! I killed zebra, red hartebeest, blue wildebeest, oryx, and kudu with it on that trip. Only caught 2 bullets, both lengthwise from the zebra and kudu.
Several years later, had another exact copy rifle , rechambered by local smith, had it cryoed, blueprinted, weatherproofed. Had a brake put on it ( after my left retina tore/repaired in early 2002) same scope. This time loaded the 200X over 58gr H322 (their book Max) scary accurate, clocked 2970fps. Took it in summer of 2002 to SA and made a 347yd heart/lung shot on a Black Wildebeest and a 250yd base of the neck shot on zebra. (
I had my left eye full of silicon oil to hold the retina in place so was a "blind in one eye" Preacher!) Both pass throughs. Wicked.
I later had my loads compared to QL and believed them to be "over 70K". Since I had my left eye healed and was still "legally blind in it, I retired the Wildcat. Yes, I could have loaded it down, but had other plans ( looney I tell you!) Before I retired it, I had loaded the 250PT to 2750 over R15 and a Fed 215 Mag primer. That's 358 Norma speed. It did show a "slightly flattened primer", and was QL guesstimate around 72-74K. Hot dog stuff! ha. I also loaded/used on a hog the 310 Woodleigh at 2415fps. Awesome round. Also in the 72K range.
I probably could have shot that rifle until I was 120, but I felt I was gambling needlessly with high pressure stuff.

I built my 23" 35 Whelen AI back in the early 90's and copied G. Sitton's loads also (AA2520), just like Jim. I was chasing 2600+ with 250's and ended up blowing the only primer I have ever done in 40 years of handloading pursuing that goal. I have no doubt I was flirting with the kind of pressures Jim referenced above.
Nowadays, with the new powders, I can shoot the 250 NPT at 2650'/sec with very mild pressure (Speer's max is 2700', but I quit over a grain below their max.) Can load those cases many many times. We've had great progress with powders for the Whelen. For some reason, their is a contingent of folks who seem really bothered that the Whelen is now capable of 150'/sec or more than it used to be. They imply that's not the performance its creators "intended." I never met Messrs. Howe or Whelen, but I'd bet a box of 250 Partitions they'd have been thrilled with an extra 150'/sec in their baby. Now I'm just rambling...

Cheers,
Rex

[q they'd have been thrilled with an extra 150'/sec in their baby.

I hear you Pard...after killing Plains Game with what was "essentially" 358 NM territory loads, I just "could not" make myself slow the Ol Boy down! ha My next 35 after I hung up the Whelan, was indeed a 358 NM! I got to shoot 10rds of Double Tap factory 180 TTSX out of it when it was finished ( brake and all). Not a week after, I got hit with a dump truck load of "Obamacare" caused Taxes! had to sell everything I could get my hands on, even the change under the couch cushions! ha Finally accumulated a few factory rifles since, but no more 35 cals. But I tend to gauge everything by how that old 35 WAI performed! I agree with the Old Timers that one does not "need" the extra speed, just hunt closer. But Im glad these new powders have come about...

I have an 1885 Highwall that I rebored to 35 Whelen so it has a 28" barrel. With 68 grains of Power Pro Varmint and 190 TTSX I chronographed 3231 FPS.

I ain't looking to slow it down

What I like about 35 Whelen threads is all the “quotes” (and parenthetical phrases) that come out about how the 35 would be their “big” gun used in the “woods” (or possibly bears). Posters go on to say that in the “real world” that’s all that’s needed (even if they go to “Africa” one day).
Not a “knock” on the posters (or the cartridge) just “my” observation, albeit probably biased.

I built a Whelen on a VZ24 action and loaded a 225 gr. TSX running just shy of 2700 fps. Longest shot just over 350 yds. I took three bulls with this load/rifle and my Pop took one. This is one of those bullets that incredibly, travelled the full length of one of those NM bulls.



My Pop has a 700 Classic in Whelen, and the last couple of years of his elk hunting he carried it because with the old 4X Leupold it wears, it is such a light rifle. Load development was easy, and I worked up a load with a 250 gr. Speer SP that ran it just over 2500 fps and grouped very well-



As luck would have it, he got a shot at a rag-head bull at exactly 44 yds. The 250 gr. Speer acted sort of like a varmint bullet at that range. The short blood trail looked like it came out of a 5/8" garden hose. The shot was slightly quartering away, entering behind the right shoulder and angling forward into the left shoulder. Talk about a mess....

Entrance-

Off shoulder-

Remains of the bullet-

Shoulda used a Partition, but had these on hand.

Memories....and his last bull at age 75-

Great pictures WhelenNut. The old boy just gets it done.

Your father looks like Ed Bruce with the shade in his face. What a cool picture.

Thanks. He got told that a lot back in the late '70's/early '80's.