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Re: Portugal Featherweight Model 70’s Quality & Quality Control Superior ? [Re: GAGoober] #16316353 08/06/21
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10Glocks Offline
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You could be right, and I could be wrong. But the bolt handle is clearly one piece with the portion of the bolt its attached to; they weren't two separate pieces brazed together, like the Remington 700. They are cast together. Now, it could be that there are two bolt sections brazed together, one piece with the handle on it. If that's the case, and I admit it could be, Winchester is doing a phenomenal job. I looked at all 4 bolts under a 90X jewelers glass and there is not the slightest hint of a gap/joint between pieces, or the 'overflow' of brazing material, which is visible on brazed joints on Remington 700s. They are perfectly mated together. As you know, the Remington 700 bolt is a three piece bolt. The head is brazed on, too. On all of my 700s, while there are no gaps between pieces, joints are evident. There is brazing material visible at the joints of the parts brazed together.

So, if I added to any misunderstanding, I apologize. I wanted to point out that the handle and the bolt are one piece (unlike the 700) but concede what I meant may not be what someone else meant by one piece. I think it's clear to anyone, though, that the design is very superior to the 700 design, and any fears that the bolt handle is somehow a weak link in the design is unfounded.

BP-B2

Re: Portugal Featherweight Model 70’s Quality & Quality Control Superior ? [Re: 10Glocks] #16316484 08/06/21
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Originally Posted by 10Glocks
I don't know when it changed. I understand the post-64s were two piece, as well as ther 1992 classics. It went back to a one piece sometime when the traditional M70s were made, either in SC or Portugal.

Here's photos of some of the boltsa from my other Portuguese M70s.

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

Clearly, the handles and bolt bodies are one piece.


Based on that picture, to me it appears to be a two-piece bolt/bolt body. The bolt handle (and the small bolt bodied cylindrical piece), has a pock-marked surface, while the bolt body itself is "smooth". They were finished to two different endpoints, likely as there were two separate pieces made/finished in two separate processes and quality control standards, then joined together. That is my interpretation of the picture. It does not look like the bolt handle and bolt body were made from one contiguous piece of steel, and then surface-finished to the same quality control standard.


"Behavior accepted is behavior repeated."

"Strive to be underestimated."
Re: Portugal Featherweight Model 70’s Quality & Quality Control Superior ? [Re: GAGoober] #16316635 08/06/21
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10Glocks Offline
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That could be. There appear to be faint lathe marks on the bolt body up to the point of the handle. I guess there could be a way to spin a one piece bolt with handle on a lathe, but it seems to me there would need to be a counter weight to the handle. I'm not a machinist.

More photos posted here:

https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/16316711#Post16316711

Last edited by 10Glocks; 08/06/21.
Re: Portugal Featherweight Model 70’s Quality & Quality Control Superior ? [Re: GAGoober] #16319135 08/06/21
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BWalker Offline
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The bolts are two piece and have been since 1964. They are attached better than a 700, but never the less are two piece. Forum member Greydog was a Winchester warranty gunsmith in Canada that repaired quit a few that have failed.

Re: Portugal Featherweight Model 70’s Quality & Quality Control Superior ? [Re: GAGoober] #16319553 08/07/21
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10Glocks Offline
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Okay, so I agree it's a two piece design,. My mistake was assuming that the original concern was that the handle was tacked on like the Remington 700. It obviously isn't. The handle is one piece with a collar that slips onto the bolt body, and the collar is brazed on. (IMO superior to the Remington 700. The contact area of the brazed collar is significantly greater than the contact area where the 700 handle meets the bolt.)

I also said there is no evidence of brazing material and I think I am wrong there, too. My mistake there was believing the brazing material would be like that seen on the Remington 700 - a metallic bronze color. But the Winchester apparently uses copper. And I believe there is evidence of that in that area. One of my bolts has some turquoise coloring in that area that might be some left over copper, maybe some overflow, or from copper infused flux, that looks like it was perhaps polished then blued resulting in the bluing salts oxidizing the copper into its tell-tale turquoise color. That turquoise showed up on one of the earlier pictures I posted.

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

I do wonder about the "quite a few" assertion. Unlike the Remington 700, I yet to come across any proven account of an M70 bolt failing. Even failure of the 700 bolts are few and far between, usually involving abusive practices, or home-gunsmithing that resulted in a weakened joint.

IC-A

Re: Portugal Featherweight Model 70’s Quality & Quality Control Superior ? [Re: 10Glocks] #16321351 08/07/21
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Originally Posted by 10Glocks
Okay, so I agree it's a two piece design,. My mistake was assuming that the original concern was that the handle was tacked on like the Remington 700. It obviously isn't. The handle is one piece with a collar that slips onto the bolt body, and the collar is brazed on. (IMO superior to the Remington 700. The contact area of the brazed collar is significantly greater than the contact area where the 700 handle meets the bolt.)

I also said there is no evidence of brazing material and I think I am wrong there, too. My mistake there was believing the brazing material would be like that seen on the Remington 700 - a metallic bronze color. But the Winchester apparently uses copper. And I believe there is evidence of that in that area. One of my bolts has some turquoise coloring in that area that might be some left over copper, maybe some overflow, or from copper infused flux, that looks like it was perhaps polished then blued resulting in the bluing salts oxidizing the copper into its tell-tale turquoise color. That turquoise showed up on one of the earlier pictures I posted.

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

I do wonder about the "quite a few" assertion. Unlike the Remington 700, I yet to come across any proven account of an M70 bolt failing. Even failure of the 700 bolts are few and far between, usually involving abusive practices, or home-gunsmithing that resulted in a weakened joint.

Why don't you PM Greydog. He's seen more than a few.

https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/15143538/m70-bolt-failure

Last edited by BWalker; 08/07/21.
Re: Portugal Featherweight Model 70’s Quality & Quality Control Superior ? [Re: ruffedgrouse] #16325031 08/08/21
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Originally Posted by ruffedgrouse
we all like nice wood.

Perhaps you should consider rephrasing that statement.

Last edited by High_Noon; 08/08/21.

l told my pap and mam I was going to be a mountain man; acted like they was gut-shot. Make your life go here. Here's where the peoples is. Mother Gue, I says, the Rocky Mountains is the marrow of the world, and by God, I was right.
- Del Gue
Re: Portugal Featherweight Model 70’s Quality & Quality Control Superior ? [Re: GAGoober] #16331245 08/10/21
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450Fuller Offline
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Kudos to R Grouse with respect to the pre-64 Model 70s. For hunting in really demanding conditions
like Alaska, iron sights are a practical if not a sine qua non feature. My standard and former wildcat
M-70s are for larger big game. Weather and tough terrain have not disturbed their utility. Even Griffin & Howe side mounts
with Leupold or Lyman Alaskan scopes work with fascinating reliability in inhospitable country.

If the pre-64 M-70 was that dated an action or rifle, why do custom rifle makers seek that action and the Mauser
over most newer existing designs? Like the Filson coat label states : "Might as well have the best".

Re: Portugal Featherweight Model 70’s Quality & Quality Control Superior ? [Re: BWalker] #16332284 08/11/21
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Originally Posted by BWalker


More than a few? 3 or 4 from Remington and Winchester in 13 years. That's pretty much the definition of "a few."

Last edited by 10Glocks; 08/11/21.
Re: Portugal Featherweight Model 70’s Quality & Quality Control Superior ? [Re: GAGoober] #16838753 01/14/22
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How does one tell a used South Carolina gun from a Portugal gun, assuming no box, no hang tag, just seeing one on the rack?

IC-B

Re: Portugal Featherweight Model 70’s Quality & Quality Control Superior ? [Re: GAGoober] #16840992 01/15/22
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Barrel markings.
Portugal gun will say Made in Portugal.
Other than that and serial number, hard to tell unless it’s a muzzle brake model.

Re: Portugal Featherweight Model 70’s Quality & Quality Control Superior ? [Re: AKwolverine] #16844062 01/15/22
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Originally Posted by AKwolverine
Barrel markings.
Portugal gun will say Made in Portugal.
Other than that and serial number, hard to tell unless it’s a muzzle brake model.


Thanks!

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