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Cliffs with 4 foot drops will do, and broadcast burning, the record of that is in the soil, can get a big heard channled nicely.

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Originally Posted by kaywoodie
Many do no realize it, but due to the deerskin trade beginning in the late17th early 18th century, the same thing almost happened to the whitetail deer.

Always use as an example for native waste of resources the Gilbert site, Rains Co. Texas. Site full of French Trade goods from Natchitoches. When archaeologists began finding fully articulated whitetail skeletal remains there, piled one on top of the other. They knew they were only really utilizing the hides.

As a sidenote many southeastern tribal members in the early 19th century had never even seen a deer until they got to Oklahoma. (One of the reasons Pushmataha was ready to move there from Mississippi ! He hunted butfalo in what is now SE Oklahoma as a young man).


Yep. Elk too. They were once “plains game” and roamed the plains in huge herds. They weren’t just found in the Rockies like mostly today.


"Allways speak the truth and you will never have to remember what you said before..." Sam Houston
Texans, "We say Grace, We Say Mam, If You Don't Like it, We Don't Give a Damn!"

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Originally Posted by Hastings
Originally Posted by mart
One need only look at a few native communities to get an idea how well they would manage our lands and natural resources.
Pine Ridge Agency, South Dakota


Yep.


"Allways speak the truth and you will never have to remember what you said before..." Sam Houston
Texans, "We say Grace, We Say Mam, If You Don't Like it, We Don't Give a Damn!"

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Originally Posted by chlinstructor
Originally Posted by kaywoodie
Many do no realize it, but due to the deerskin trade beginning in the late17th early 18th century, the same thing almost happened to the whitetail deer.

Always use as an example for native waste of resources the Gilbert site, Rains Co. Texas. Site full of French Trade goods from Natchitoches. When archaeologists began finding fully articulated whitetail skeletal remains there, piled one on top of the other. They knew they were only really utilizing the hides.

As a sidenote many southeastern tribal members in the early 19th century had never even seen a deer until they got to Oklahoma. (One of the reasons Pushmataha was ready to move there from Mississippi ! He hunted butfalo in what is now SE Oklahoma as a young man).


Yep. Elk too. They were once “plains game” and roamed the plains in huge herds. They weren’t just found in the Rockies like mostly today.


Francois de la Harpe wrote in his journal while headed up the red river to the French garrison at Poste des Nachitos states that one of the Canadiens in their company killed a “whistling deer” in the area of the Rapides. ( Queue DirtFarmer! This is in his AO!😁). This was in tbe 1730’s.


Founder
Ancient Order of the 1895 Winchester

"Come, shall we go and kill us venison?
And yet it irks me the poor dappled fools,
Being native burghers of this desert city,
Should in their own confines with forked heads
Have their round haunches gored."

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Originally Posted by kaywoodie
Originally Posted by chlinstructor
Originally Posted by kaywoodie
Many do no realize it, but due to the deerskin trade beginning in the late17th early 18th century, the same thing almost happened to the whitetail deer.

Always use as an example for native waste of resources the Gilbert site, Rains Co. Texas. Site full of French Trade goods from Natchitoches. When archaeologists began finding fully articulated whitetail skeletal remains there, piled one on top of the other. They knew they were only really utilizing the hides.

As a sidenote many southeastern tribal members in the early 19th century had never even seen a deer until they got to Oklahoma. (One of the reasons Pushmataha was ready to move there from Mississippi ! He hunted butfalo in what is now SE Oklahoma as a young man).


Yep. Elk too. They were once “plains game” and roamed the plains in huge herds. They weren’t just found in the Rockies like mostly today.


Francois de la Harpe wrote in his journal while headed up the red river to the French garrison at Poste des Nachitos states that one of the Canadiens in their company killed a “whistling deer” in the area of the Rapides. ( Queue DirtFarmer! This is in his AO!😁). This was in tbe 1730’s.


Yep.


"Allways speak the truth and you will never have to remember what you said before..." Sam Houston
Texans, "We say Grace, We Say Mam, If You Don't Like it, We Don't Give a Damn!"

~Molɔ̀ːn Labé Skýla~
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I did my part to rid the plains of bufflers.

Hanging on my wall up in the crows nest....kinda dark

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Originally Posted by WYcoyote
Originally Posted by Jim_Conrad
You land stealing, treaty breaking, smallpox blanket giving, Trail of Tears marching looters rapers and pillagers feel better about yourselves yet?


Maybe bring up Casinos and buffalo jumps again....




I feel OK.


Good.

Me too.


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Originally Posted by RJY66
One thing to think about is that for Indians back in those days fat was hard to come by as wild animals are very lean and eating just lean meat can lead to protein poisoning or "rabbit starvation". The people who killed bison for their tongues were probably after the fat in them....their bodies were probably craving it. Also the organs were probably prized for the same reason. Sugar and carbs had to be a mostly seasonal thing and what fruit and berries they had were not sweet like our hybridized versions. Fat is the other concentrated source of energy to run a human body and brain.

I think I remember accounts of Lewis and Clark's men struggling to do hard labor on a diet of deer and elk and were glad to get beaver, other rodents, and dogs from the Indians because of the fat.



Good Grease
The hunters went out with guns
at dawn.
We had no meat in the village,
no food for the tribe and the dogs.
No caribou in the caches.

All day we waited.
At last!
As darkness hung at the river
we children saw them far away.
Yes! They were carrying caribou!
We jumped and shouted!

By the fires that night
we feasted.

The old ones chuckled,
sucking and smacking,
sopping the juices with sourdough bread.
The grease would warm us
when hungry winter howled.

Grease was beautiful
oozing,
dripping and running down our chins,
brown hands shining with grease.
We talk of it
when we see each other
far from home.

Remember the marrow
sweet in the bones?
We grabbed for them like candy.
Good.
Gooooood.

Good grease.

Mary TallMountain


The desert is a true treasure for him who seeks refuge from men and the evil of men.
In it is contentment
In it is death and all you seek
(Quoted from "The Bleeding of the Stone" Ibrahim Al-Koni)

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Originally Posted by kaywoodie
Originally Posted by chlinstructor
Originally Posted by kaywoodie
Many do no realize it, but due to the deerskin trade beginning in the late17th early 18th century, the same thing almost happened to the whitetail deer.

Always use as an example for native waste of resources the Gilbert site, Rains Co. Texas. Site full of French Trade goods from Natchitoches. When archaeologists began finding fully articulated whitetail skeletal remains there, piled one on top of the other. They knew they were only really utilizing the hides.

As a sidenote many southeastern tribal members in the early 19th century had never even seen a deer until they got to Oklahoma. (One of the reasons Pushmataha was ready to move there from Mississippi ! He hunted butfalo in what is now SE Oklahoma as a young man).


Yep. Elk too. They were once “plains game” and roamed the plains in huge herds. They weren’t just found in the Rockies like mostly today.


Francois de la Harpe wrote in his journal while headed up the red river to the French garrison at Poste des Nachitos states that one of the Canadiens in their company killed a “whistling deer” in the area of the Rapides. ( Queue DirtFarmer! This is in his AO!😁). This was in tbe 1730’s.


Oh keeper of the lore.

Where does the "Nachitos", Natchitoches, "Nagadish" word come from?

And, can we Sicilians and Albanians get reparations from the Greeks and Ottomans? (Yeah, I know, good luck with that!)


The desert is a true treasure for him who seeks refuge from men and the evil of men.
In it is contentment
In it is death and all you seek
(Quoted from "The Bleeding of the Stone" Ibrahim Al-Koni)

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Originally Posted by Mannlicher
the characterization of the indian as a 'noble redman' is vastly over blown.


That was an observation made by some white people about Indians about 50 to 100 years after they had all been killed out or relocated.

I read a book called "Scalp Dance" which was about the war for the great plains. It was mostly about the battles but one of the things from the book that stuck with me was how angry westerners were with eastern politicians "one hundred years separated from the war whoop" who wanted to pursue a policy of benevolence towards the Indians in the west. The people in the west who actually had to deal with them and were being burned out, raped, abducted, tortured, and murdered by them wanted to kill them all.


"Men must be governed by God or they will be ruled by tyrants". --- William Penn

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Quote
Yep. Elk too. They were once “plains game” and roamed the plains in huge herds. They weren’t just found in the Rockies like mostly today.
The Lewis and Clark journals recorded that they started eating elk in SD and ate it the rest of the trip - except over the Rockies. They crossed the Bitterroots and Idaho in the winter when the elk and deer weren't there. The records show that during their stay at Ft Clatsop, they killed 128 elk. They were trying to dry the meat for the trip home but it was so wet that most of it spoiled.

It's not generally known that on the return trip Lewis was mistaken for an elk by one of the men and shot in the butt. He spent quite a bit of time lying on his stomach in a canoe.


“In a time of deceit telling the truth is a revolutionary act.”
― George Orwell

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Originally Posted by Valsdad
Originally Posted by kaywoodie
Originally Posted by chlinstructor
Originally Posted by kaywoodie
Many do no realize it, but due to the deerskin trade beginning in the late17th early 18th century, the same thing almost happened to the whitetail deer.

Always use as an example for native waste of resources the Gilbert site, Rains Co. Texas. Site full of French Trade goods from Natchitoches. When archaeologists began finding fully articulated whitetail skeletal remains there, piled one on top of the other. They knew they were only really utilizing the hides.

As a sidenote many southeastern tribal members in the early 19th century had never even seen a deer until they got to Oklahoma. (One of the reasons Pushmataha was ready to move there from Mississippi ! He hunted butfalo in what is now SE Oklahoma as a young man).


Yep. Elk too. They were once “plains game” and roamed the plains in huge herds. They weren’t just found in the Rockies like mostly today.


Francois de la Harpe wrote in his journal while headed up the red river to the French garrison at Poste des Nachitos states that one of the Canadiens in their company killed a “whistling deer” in the area of the Rapides. ( Queue DirtFarmer! This is in his AO!😁). This was in tbe 1730’s.


Oh keeper of the lore.

Where does the "Nachitos", Natchitoches, "Nagadish" word come from?

And, can we Sicilians and Albanians get reparations from the Greeks and Ottomans? (Yeah, I know, good luck with that!)


Caddoan word. Old archaic words that the Local Adai Caddo say isn’t spoken anymore. It is thought to translate to either "The place of the fruit trees" or "The place of the paw paw trees".


Founder
Ancient Order of the 1895 Winchester

"Come, shall we go and kill us venison?
And yet it irks me the poor dappled fools,
Being native burghers of this desert city,
Should in their own confines with forked heads
Have their round haunches gored."

WS

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Originally Posted by Rock Chuck
Quote
Yep. Elk too. They were once “plains game” and roamed the plains in huge herds. They weren’t just found in the Rockies like mostly today.
The Lewis and Clark journals recorded that they started eating elk in SD and ate it the rest of the trip - except over the Rockies. They crossed the Bitterroots and Idaho in the winter when the elk and deer weren't there. The records show that during their stay at Ft Clatsop, they killed 128 elk. They were trying to dry the meat for the trip home but it was so wet that most of it spoiled.

It's not generally known that on the return trip Lewis was mistaken for an elk by one of the men and shot in the butt. He spent quite a bit of time lying on his stomach in a canoe.


I believe it was Cruzatte that shot him in da butt. He was known for failing eyesight.


Founder
Ancient Order of the 1895 Winchester

"Come, shall we go and kill us venison?
And yet it irks me the poor dappled fools,
Being native burghers of this desert city,
Should in their own confines with forked heads
Have their round haunches gored."

WS

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Beefs way better than Buffalo anyway. Who cares. Edk

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Elk were far preferred over buffalo for meat and robes by most.

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Originally Posted by kaywoodie
Originally Posted by Valsdad
Originally Posted by kaywoodie
Originally Posted by chlinstructor
Originally Posted by kaywoodie
Many do no realize it, but due to the deerskin trade beginning in the late17th early 18th century, the same thing almost happened to the whitetail deer.

Always use as an example for native waste of resources the Gilbert site, Rains Co. Texas. Site full of French Trade goods from Natchitoches. When archaeologists began finding fully articulated whitetail skeletal remains there, piled one on top of the other. They knew they were only really utilizing the hides.

As a sidenote many southeastern tribal members in the early 19th century had never even seen a deer until they got to Oklahoma. (One of the reasons Pushmataha was ready to move there from Mississippi ! He hunted butfalo in what is now SE Oklahoma as a young man).


Yep. Elk too. They were once “plains game” and roamed the plains in huge herds. They weren’t just found in the Rockies like mostly today.


Francois de la Harpe wrote in his journal while headed up the red river to the French garrison at Poste des Nachitos states that one of the Canadiens in their company killed a “whistling deer” in the area of the Rapides. ( Queue DirtFarmer! This is in his AO!😁). This was in tbe 1730’s.


Oh keeper of the lore.

Where does the "Nachitos", Natchitoches, "Nagadish" word come from?

And, can we Sicilians and Albanians get reparations from the Greeks and Ottomans? (Yeah, I know, good luck with that!)


Caddoan word. Old archaic words that the Local Adai Caddo say isn’t spoken anymore. It is thought to translate to either "The place of the fruit trees" or "The place of the paw paw trees".



I had a feeling you might know.

Thanks


The desert is a true treasure for him who seeks refuge from men and the evil of men.
In it is contentment
In it is death and all you seek
(Quoted from "The Bleeding of the Stone" Ibrahim Al-Koni)

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Much the same happened with musk ox in Alaska. Natives got guns without accompanying conservation views and wiped them out. One newspaper account ascribed it to "sport hunters" at a time when there were few whites in the territory, much less "sports" .

They did print my nastygram, which i kept polite, but the rag no longer prints letters for some odd reason . smile


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Originally Posted by OldHat
Originally Posted by alpinecrick

The last Mammoths in North America were found off the coastal islands of what is now Canada and Alaska 7000 years ago. In response to the changing climate they had shrunk to the point where they were 4-5 ft at the shoulder. Mini-Mammoths. I wonder if they would've make good pack stock for hauling out elk?

More likely the mini mammoth phenomenon was due to island restrictions. Like key deer.



iirc , wrangle island was the last holdout of the mamoth, as recently as 1,000 years ago Mini mammoths


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Often overlooked: Bent’s Fort on the upper Arkansas (??). Trading with many Plains Tribes, tons of trade good poled upriver each year, by the 1840’s tens of thousands of buffalo hides each year sent downstream.

Good times until cholera brung West by the ‘49ers hit.


"...if the gentlemen of Virginia shall send us a dozen of their sons, we would take great care in their education, instruct them in all we know, and make men of them." Canasatego 1744
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