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Re: CMP Match Sanctioning [Re: ChrisF] #16308020 08/03/21
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Made me look again, but it is just a solid cheek weld with the butt tucked in tight. The angle from the scorer's position is deceptive.

BP-B2

Re: CMP Match Sanctioning [Re: MikeS] #16309133 08/03/21
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Originally Posted by MikeS
Made me look again, but it is just a solid cheek weld with the butt tucked in tight. The angle from the scorer's position is deceptive.

Yep, he's on it!

Re: CMP Match Sanctioning [Re: blindshooter] #16316519 08/06/21
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Dang, Chris, I've sat on a sand bar out in the bay and had no idea a range was that close!


Politics is War by Other Means
Re: CMP Match Sanctioning [Re: blindshooter] #16317318 08/06/21
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Here's another view of the range courtesy of Google Earth. The bay is shielded from the range by the crater wall. I lived across the bay and never heard a shot...just jet noise from the airfield and fireworks from the shows.
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

Re: CMP Match Sanctioning [Re: blindshooter] #16326173 08/09/21
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Originally Posted by blindshooter
If the NRA fails completely would CMP pick up all match sanctioning? Classifications?

I can't compete any longer but the shooting sports still hold interest for me. Looks like anything that involves a heavy shooting coat is going away?

This is what made me think about CMP picking up sanctioning from NRA,
3x600



I just returned from Camp Perry. Overall attendance was down this year, and in my opinion it was caused by Covid and uncertainty if masks would be required on base. I think some people stayed away because CMP requires eye protection while shooting, scoring, or in the pits. The Presidents Hundred still had 836 entries and the National Trophy Individual Rifle match 792 entries with enough non-distinguished shooters for 51 legs. That is probably about a 20% decrease from 2019.

The NRA Championship is starting now. Across the Course is two weeks away but I am hearing around 70 entries. Sadly, NRA high power cannot continue the way it is being run. We have Regionals with more shooters.

On a personal note I shot terrible at the P-100, Leg Match, Hearst Doubles. Had some target puller/line official problems at the P-100 and let it ruin my day, 100% my fault for not controlling the situation and to let it continue to affect my shooting. Good learning experience.

IC-A

Re: CMP Match Sanctioning [Re: ChrisF] #16326178 08/09/21
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Originally Posted by ChrisF
Here's another view of the range courtesy of Google Earth. The bay is shielded from the range by the crater wall. I lived across the bay and never heard a shot...just jet noise from the airfield and fireworks from the shows.
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]



Is that a 500 yard range?
Does the Honolulu Rifle and Pistol Club shoot Rifle EIC matches there?
I bet the whole family would attend that match.

Re: CMP Match Sanctioning [Re: Mike70560] #16331554 08/11/21
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Originally Posted by Mike70560
Originally Posted by blindshooter
If the NRA fails completely would CMP pick up all match sanctioning? Classifications?

I can't compete any longer but the shooting sports still hold interest for me. Looks like anything that involves a heavy shooting coat is going away?

This is what made me think about CMP picking up sanctioning from NRA,
3x600


The NRA Championship is starting now. Across the Course is two weeks away but I am hearing around 70 entries. Sadly, NRA high power cannot continue the way it is being run. We have Regionals with more shooters.


Please elaborate? What you think should change? We have the same issues up here maybe 7-10 of us shoot across the course.

Last edited by 79S; 08/11/21.

Originally Posted by Bricktop
Then STFU. The rest of your statement is superflous bullshit with no real bearing on this discussion other than to massage your own ego.
Re: CMP Match Sanctioning [Re: blindshooter] #16332215 08/11/21
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79S,

On a National Match level, this is my perspective as a competitor. I have shot at Perry multiple times, and Atterbury twice.

The NRA should have never left Perry. It is my understanding the NRA and CMP were acting like petulant children. Not blaming one or the other, but for their customers (shooters) it was a bad move.
At some point how can you call it a National Match when attendance is under 50? The military is not sending teams, some military shooters are going, but not on orders.
Also the NRA rifle matches are now held in mid August. Junior shooters are back in school. They are the key to growing the sport.

What needs to change at a National level?

In a perfect world the NRA and CMP work together, the NRA matches go back to Perry, The CMP Cup matches become the 2400 aggregate for the NRA with all of the NRA trophies, same for mid range and long range events. However this will not happen, attendance will continue to dwindle for the NRA, at some point the NRA National Matches will cease to exist.

On top of everything else, high power is not an easy sport. Between hauling gear around, the difficulty of shooting three positions, the overall expenses, pulling targets, and it is not very glamorous or exciting like the popular run and gun stuff. F-Class has grown but in general you shoot under cover, in one position, from a rest.

On a local/state level a good junior program is a must. In Louisiana, we have not sent a kid to Perry since I started shooting again in 2017, other than one that I introduced to the Texas coaches and they took him. We do not do a good job of promoting matches, getting scores out, cutting grass at the range, updating range calendars and attendance has dwindled to low levels. I think the last time two Legs were awarded was in in 2017, there are no state or regional matches held. I emailed the Junior director about plans for the program, no response.

In Texas they will send three teams of juniors to Perry, promote their local matches, keep websites updated, keep up the ranges, have adult teams for Perry (they were high civilian team again this year). But the population of Texas is 6 times that of Louisiana and 40 times that of Alaska.

A lot of rambling however to improve attendance on a local level we have to get juniors involved in the programs. Poach kids from 4H and Boy Scout programs. Electronic targets will help with participation. Promote through Facebook, newspaper, gun stores, etc. Have rifles and gear for new shooters to borrow. Start them on a 100 yard range. Send results with a write up to everybody you can. And the hardest of all is to have a High Power director committed to growing the sport. It is a time consuming and thankless job.




Last edited by Mike70560; 08/11/21.
Re: CMP Match Sanctioning [Re: Mike70560] #16333362 08/11/21
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Originally Posted by Mike70560
79S,

On a National Match level, this is my perspective as a competitor. I have shot at Perry multiple times, and Atterbury twice.

The NRA should have never left Perry. It is my understanding the NRA and CMP were acting like petulant children. Not blaming one or the other, but for their customers (shooters) it was a bad move.
At some point how can you call it a National Match when attendance is under 50? The military is not sending teams, some military shooters are going, but not on orders.
Also the NRA rifle matches are now held in mid August. Junior shooters are back in school. They are the key to growing the sport.

What needs to change at a National level?

In a perfect world the NRA and CMP work together, the NRA matches go back to Perry, The CMP Cup matches become the 2400 aggregate for the NRA with all of the NRA trophies, same for mid range and long range events. However this will not happen, attendance will continue to dwindle for the NRA, at some point the NRA National Matches will cease to exist.

On top of everything else, high power is not an easy sport. Between hauling gear around, the difficulty of shooting three positions, the overall expenses, pulling targets, and it is not very glamorous or exciting like the popular run and gun stuff. F-Class has grown but in general you shoot under cover, in one position, from a rest.

On a local/state level a good junior program is a must. In Louisiana, we have not sent a kid to Perry since I started shooting again in 2017, other than one that I introduced to the Texas coaches and they took him. We do not do a good job of promoting matches, getting scores out, cutting grass at the range, updating range calendars and attendance has dwindled to low levels. I think the last time two Legs were awarded was in in 2017, there are no state or regional matches held. I emailed the Junior director about plans for the program, no response.

In Texas they will send three teams of juniors to Perry, promote their local matches, keep websites updated, keep up the ranges, have adult teams for Perry (they were high civilian team again this year). But the population of Texas is 6 times that of Louisiana and 40 times that of Alaska.

A lot of rambling however to improve attendance on a local level we have to get juniors involved in the programs. Poach kids from 4H and Boy Scout programs. Electronic targets will help with participation. Promote through Facebook, newspaper, gun stores, etc. Have rifles and gear for new shooters to borrow. Start them on a 100 yard range. Send results with a write up to everybody you can. And the hardest of all is to have a High Power director committed to growing the sport. It is a time consuming and thankless job.





Those are all very good points, and pretty much what we talked about up here. We pretty much accepted the fact these folks like instant gratification and hearing the bullet hit steel is what the want. The bad is that bullet doesn’t have to hit X,10,9 just hit steely out get points. I have bud built a 338 Norma mag he will shoot 30-40rds at the range at 300yds. I tell come to one our 600yd mid range prone matches nope won't show up. Back to high power xtc some don’t understand why we do slow fire, some think it’s stupid how come they can’t jam 20rds in a magazine and let them fly. At 20rd rapid fire at 600yds be pretty interesting 😁. I’m trying to get my daughter into it she’s 21. Far as advertisement our club has fb and website it’s constantly updated with up to dates match results and upcoming matches. We also have 7 shot markers now. With the intention of buying more for nra/cmp xtc highpower matches. Right now we glue 200yd centers on the back of 500yd targets and use our 600yd frames. With few more shot markers we can set up dedicated 200/300yd frames. Our club has loaner rifles as well no scopes on them, the only hurdle we saw this year was ammo ie 77gr ammo for the 600yd line. But even with all we have for a small club our xtc mstches don’t have many folks showing up. Now our midrange shoots we have anywhere from 15-28 show up on Tuesday evenings.


Originally Posted by Bricktop
Then STFU. The rest of your statement is superflous bullshit with no real bearing on this discussion other than to massage your own ego.
Re: CMP Match Sanctioning [Re: Mike70560] #16336601 08/12/21
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Originally Posted by Mike70560
79S,

On a National Match level, this is my perspective as a competitor. I have shot at Perry multiple times, and Atterbury twice.

The NRA should have never left Perry. It is my understanding the NRA and CMP were acting like petulant children. Not blaming one or the other, but for their customers (shooters) it was a bad move.
At some point how can you call it a National Match when attendance is under 50? The military is not sending teams, some military shooters are going, but not on orders.
Also the NRA rifle matches are now held in mid August. Junior shooters are back in school. They are the key to growing the sport.

What needs to change at a National level?

In a perfect world the NRA and CMP work together, the NRA matches go back to Perry, The CMP Cup matches become the 2400 aggregate for the NRA with all of the NRA trophies, same for mid range and long range events. However this will not happen, attendance will continue to dwindle for the NRA, at some point the NRA National Matches will cease to exist.

On top of everything else, high power is not an easy sport. Between hauling gear around, the difficulty of shooting three positions, the overall expenses, pulling targets, and it is not very glamorous or exciting like the popular run and gun stuff. F-Class has grown but in general you shoot under cover, in one position, from a rest.

On a local/state level a good junior program is a must. In Louisiana, we have not sent a kid to Perry since I started shooting again in 2017, other than one that I introduced to the Texas coaches and they took him. We do not do a good job of promoting matches, getting scores out, cutting grass at the range, updating range calendars and attendance has dwindled to low levels. I think the last time two Legs were awarded was in in 2017, there are no state or regional matches held. I emailed the Junior director about plans for the program, no response.

In Texas they will send three teams of juniors to Perry, promote their local matches, keep websites updated, keep up the ranges, have adult teams for Perry (they were high civilian team again this year). But the population of Texas is 6 times that of Louisiana and 40 times that of Alaska.

A lot of rambling however to improve attendance on a local level we have to get juniors involved in the programs. Poach kids from 4H and Boy Scout programs. Electronic targets will help with participation. Promote through Facebook, newspaper, gun stores, etc. Have rifles and gear for new shooters to borrow. Start them on a 100 yard range. Send results with a write up to everybody you can. And the hardest of all is to have a High Power director committed to growing the sport. It is a time consuming and thankless job.





Very well stated and lines up with my thoughts as well.

I had to quit due to heath problems around 2014 and even then we could see the handwriting on the wall. Hard to recruit Jr's with supportive parents even then.

When I read about NRA moving to Atterbury I said then the split would be the end of NRA nationals.

And you nailed it on the match dates killing the Jr's ability to attend. That was a problem even back when I was still active.

It does take effort to shoot XTC, getting in a coat in hot weather plus hauling all your gear on foot all day is just like work. I thought it was the toughest organized shooting around back then.

The NRA has been a huge disappointment and seems to be circling the toilet faster all the time.

IC-B

Re: CMP Match Sanctioning [Re: blindshooter] #16363353 08/21/21
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Even when the NRA was still at Perry, I don't think that they understood what Highpower was all about. Their magazine articles were all about the match rifle shooters when the majority of shooters there were SR. It seems like almost every article was about a certain family. Also, shooters cared more about getting Leg points than any medal the NRA would hand out.

Re: CMP Match Sanctioning [Re: blindshooter] #16391431 08/30/21
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The NRA Across the Course matches are finished. SSG Amanda Elsenboss won the championship with a service rifle and set a new record with service rifle at 2386. The last day she shot a 200 offhand, 199 at 300, and a 200 at the 600 yard line. She is a true champion.

Unfortunately there were only 63 shooters participating.

Re: CMP Match Sanctioning [Re: blindshooter] #16406979 09/05/21
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Good to hear the USAMU is still bringing the cream. Sad to hear how far participation has fallen. Who took the Mumma?

Last edited by ChrisF; 09/05/21.
Re: CMP Match Sanctioning [Re: blindshooter] #16407159 09/05/21
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Chris, if you are referring to Amanda Elsenboss, she is no longer with the Army. I was squadded with her at a small match we held at Ben Avery last February and she was representing Team Berger and the Pennsylvania (?) National Guard if I remember correctly.

Last edited by MikeS; 09/05/21.
Re: CMP Match Sanctioning [Re: blindshooter] #16407515 09/05/21
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Thsnks for the correction…thats me!…always a step behind the news…read Mike70560’s post more carefully and see that Amanda E won the Mumma! Only the 5th time with a Service Rifle…and only the third time won by a woman!

Re: CMP Match Sanctioning [Re: blindshooter] #16407934 09/05/21
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NRA Scores

A link to the scores.

Re: CMP Match Sanctioning [Re: blindshooter] #16409045 09/06/21
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I'm friends with Nick Till's father, the one who won the CSR category. He's won the CMP CSR championship in the past. His father was a great shooter in his own right. IIRC, he went Distinguished and P100 in his first or second year of shooting.

Re: CMP Match Sanctioning [Re: blindshooter] #16421063 09/10/21
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The NRA just released their 2022 Championship schedule. Across the course is now in mid-July, with a CMP EIC (Leg) match the day after the championship.

Hopefully more junior shooters will come, along with guys chasing points. You would have four days of shooting to get zeros and then a leg match. Maybe a few more Expert/Master shooters will show up.

NRA 2022 Calendar

Re: CMP Match Sanctioning [Re: blindshooter] #16438947 3 hours ago
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Ask almost any youngster today if they enjoy shooting Across The Course comp and they’ll look at you with a look of …..what the hell is that??

I knew it was going to happen when scope usage evolved! Now when these kids hit a target using a scope at 1000 yards they think they’re shooters! Shame Shame!!


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