Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters Why not use SOA?

Or Second of Angle? 1 SOA is about .017” at 100 yds. I know 10 SOA doesn’t sound smaller than .25 MOA, but...,

Maybe because an MOA is so close to an inch, which I am sure most shooters can estimate when looking at a target. But, I dunno, otherwise.

With all the talk of sub-MOA shooting results, these days, I believe you are on to something. A one inch group at 200 yards could then be described as 30 SOA, eh?

Looks like your math is no better than your ability to teach stupid things on the 1911.

Perhaps you should reread what I actually said.

I have a rifle that shoots 5 SOA all day long, if I do my part. One ragged hole, I'm telling you.

Of course, I only load the best pills, and that sumbitch kills like the Hammer of Thor!

Incredibly few shooters are actually shooting a REAL MOA.....it's merely internet hype. I have done so on a few occasions but many times failed to repeat it.

Yes, I have no doubt that there's a few shooters and guns capable of consistent MOA shooting.....but if they want it's not all that hard for them to say it shoots in the "3s" or whatever actual groups they are getting. This has more meaning to me than SOA as it's quite easy to understand.

I have said this before and seriously believe it.....there are more 1/2" groups fired on the internet than actually fired at the range.

Yes, I know there are far better shooters than me and I cheer them on.....but using a SOA measurement won't improve groups at all....lets just stick to what we have now.....it's working nicely.

I've fired some honest 1/2 inch groups. If I'd only stopped after that third shot.........

Ha! I've fired some 1/4" groups. Then I moved the target from the 25 yard line...

Lol, depends on when you go and how honest they really are. I have 3 rifles that are honest 1/2” or less shooters, did have 4 but sold my bench gun when I gave up competition shooting. 1/2” is boring but gets real interesting when you start getting down to .2-.3 outside to outside. That’s fun.
Either way you look at MOA or SOA is always going to lose in competition. 1” is going to beat 1 MOA. A .2” is always going to beat a 12 SOA.

I noticed 20 years ago that I never saw a 1" 5 shot group at any rifle range.

But on the internet, a 1" group would be soliciting advice as to how to get it down to a 1/2" group.

This is the internet / public range reality conversion chart

1/4 moa = 2 moa
1/2 moa = 4 moa
1 moa = 8 moa
2 moa = not on the paper

One guy at the range must have been reading the internet. He said "all my rifles are sub moa"
But looking at his groups.. they were 5" ~ 8"

Always thought it funny when spending time at the range 2 weeks before deer season. Overhearing other shooters talking among themselves about how good their rifle is shooting. So I swing my spotting scope over and have a look see and think damn , nice 4-5 inch pattern all on the edge of black on that 25 yard pistol target. Minute of deer.

Dan, I have changed and done so many things diff ALREADY since joining the 'fire'.....

Don't need & ain't gonna add more.

Y'all have fun. NO sarcasm, No criticism, Not snooty, just ain't.

Jerry

Plus, even here, someone 'could' shoot EDIT......................................................>, change to 'close range' and
post as 100 or 200 yds.

SWEAR I have not done that but it could be done.

I have had personal shooting contests with 2 or 3 guys over the years and no contest.

One was a personal friend in 1987. He was so proud of his 6 gun 22, I'll NOT say what it was, some here love em.
At 30 yds I let him shoot 4 or 5 Xs till he hit the small target.

I then shot my Ruger MK II SS 6 7/8" bll. ONE shot One Kill. Repeat 2nd time, One Shot One Kill.
He went and got a Ruger Mk II SS 5 1/2" bull bll. He could hit with it.

Jerry

But, 1” at 100 yards is certainly within 1 MOA, and .2” is within 12 SOA. The difference between inches and angles only matters in formal competition. The useful thing about describing group size in terms of MOA or SOA is in forecasting approximate performance at different distances.

I have no doubt whatsoever that many guys here are achieving MOA five-shot groups, whether shot at 100 or 200 yards or further. I've done it many times myself, with many of my rifles and if I can do it then I have no problem believing that many others can also. It really isn't that hard. Some of my rifles won't do it every time, but there are a number of them in my safe that will. The ones that don't, I keep working on. I even make progress now and then with one or two of them. That's what keeps me coming back to the loading bench.

SOA, MOA, inches, millimeters, mils...whatever. Makes no difference.

I shot an honest .264" under ideal conditions a few years ago when my eyesight was good, but then I fired the 2nd shot...damn.

Yep it’s funny. 3 Sundays in a row for 26 years I would volunteer at the club for sight in days. Saw it all, but the thing that struck me most was that most maybe 95% had the worst damn bench techniques I had ever seen. Didn’t know how to read a wind flag and the most common was buying a 300 super whizzum when all the recoil they could handle was a 243. 2nd to 3rd shot they were flinching, jerking the trigger and even had one guy close his eyes in anticipation of the recoil.
Had one guy say here I am tired of this after the 3rd shot, you shoot it, so I did, got it dialed in and he goes I am going to shoot twice if they land close to yours I am good to go.

Plain and simple when shooting groups if you can’t read wind flags and your bench technique is sh*t, you are going to get sh*t groups.

I vote for reporting muzzle velocity in furlongs per fortnight.

So I guess a 5000 FPF sidewind would be pretty easy to deal with, huh?