Home Forums Hunting & Shooting AR and Tactical Rifles Home Defense AR Question

So how many folks here would grab your favorite AR as your preferred home defense weapon above all else? In other words, someone is busy attempting to make entry, what is in your hand?

I guess I am old school as my first weapon of choice is a S&W.40, followed by a folding stock 870. Unless the Zombie Apocalypse is upon us, my ARs sit in the safe.

The girlfriend is wicked mean with a Mossberg SA-20. You don't want to piss her off.

I'm with you. 9mms in the night stands and a 12 ga. Within reach.

9mm and a light on the nightstand for me. Both gas guns are in the safe.

Shotgun first for me

Yep.

I like my Smith & Wesson AR pistol. 223 with the 7.5" barrel and a Streamlight green laser. Stupid easy to put green dot on said life threatening intruder and eliminate the threat.

Their throat would be in my hand, but I guess I'm really old school and really mean..

10.5" with a can is my go to.

YMMV

Sig M400 Tread pistol with and 11.5 inch barrel

Can on that? An AR is loud enough. Short ones inside = pain and permanent damage

.45 1911 Springfield with a Surefire Light. It's a small house.

Shorty with a good light.

Your either really tough or really stupid......I have my suspicions!

Remington 11-87 12 gauge loaded with 5 3” tungsten ss BBs

686+.........

Nice!

I like the idea of varmint bullets from a bullpup, but I'm fastest with a shotgun. It isn't even close. Training bleeds over.

G23 with 165 hollow points eighteen inches away alongside a flashlight as I lay in bed. Various accouterments scattered about the homestead safe and within reach no matter where the Alamo might be. I know what the wife would grab; a Mossberg Ute Model pump full of 2 3/4” #3 buck. Unless I beat her to it. Across a room 20 pellets will be nasty. HOWEVER I have all the components for a short AR except a dot. It may stay at hand upon completion.

16 inch 7.62 REPR, 150gr E-Tips/176gr Lehighs.

11.5 with can, Same Same….house, street….

7 shot revolver and speed loaders, loaded with 38s +P by the bed, 12 gauge 870 nearby. And practice and more practice.

Scatterguns rule around the homestead for many reasons. #4/5/6 shot....are you ready to rock?

What would those reasons be?

I'm scared of guns and got rid of mine. But if I still had any, I would probably have a 38 special and a flashlight within easy reach of the bed.

Whichever is closest to me at the time

Nope, my hearing sucks anyway due to two ruptured ear drums as a result of ear infections,

I just had an 18 inch bison armory barrel in 6.8 SPCII cut down to 12.5 and rethreaded. That with a can and 120 ssts would be my choice.:)

I have my 870 with a light. My 45 is a backup. A can on a pistol or rifle would certainly be nice to preserve the hearing a bit.

One factor is do you have small kids. Imagine grabbing a child with your left arm and trying to wield an AR or shotgun with your right only. A pistol may be a better choice in this scenario...

Short AR, 60gr TAP rounds, second mag is bonded. If I pick up my AR I'm putting on ear pro.

In Houston the preferred tactic of home invaders seems to be 2-3 armed guys. Happens in relatively good neighborhoods, too, so I prefer having more ammo on board the gun.

I keep a Daniel AR in .300 Blackout handy, with 125gr supersonic loads, Loopey prismatic optic. More rounds on board, less recoil, better ergos than a tactical shotgun.

I've looked at "tactical" shotguns many times, and keep drifting back to the AR. I might consider a Tavor at some point, or even a bullpup shotgun, if someone makes one reliable, with enough capacity.

On the bedside table next to the biometric safe containing a Sig 226 TACOPs, my primary gun is my 11.5" BCM, suppressed and loaded with 75 BTHP over TAC. 40 rd magpul in the gun and another 30 rd. handy.

Aimpoint T2, Streamlight ProTac HL-X. With a chainsaw bayonet, obviously.

Wife get's the Sig, I get the BCM.

Aside from small flying animals with hollow bones, shotguns are a distant second place, if not third to a pistol.

Blue, I agree. Rifles win gunfights.

Rick doesn’t have enough bandwidth for me to list them. Some folks know what a scattergun can do and others will never have a clue.

Weak reply Dan.

It is illegal to shoot somebody. If there is anyway you can escape, that is the correct thing to do or you will go to jail. Best thing to do is move to a safe neighbor hood. That being said... I would be happy to hold somebody at gunpoint with any type of firearm until the police arrive.

If it is an unarmed teen.... I may consider having a talk with him. Maybe you could change his life for the better? Maybe not?

Only a pistolero would agree w/ you.


mike r

Not if they’re in your house. Nowadays there’s no such thing as a “safe” neighborhood. There are safer places but not “safe”.

Years ago, the laws would tell you to give the
criminal your wallet and they wouldn't harm you
at all
21st century - criminals kill a person's children
for a $100.00 pot deal gone wrong

It is illegal to murder somebody.

Self defense is justifiable homicide, so long as you can show a reasonable man would be in fear for their life.

Even in Oregon.

Even in Western Oregon.

Look it up.

And there you have it, a golf club and a stern voice is all you need to defend yourself.

So what ya going to do if they don't agree to be held at gunpoint? miles

There is a highly reworked and massaged HD Mossberg 930 18.5" w/ choke tubes installed by Steve Rose and 4rd Nordic mag extensions hanging in bed hooks on both sides of the bed, they put all 9 pellets of the 00 load into a smaller paper plate at 30 feet, that will ruin anyone's day that tries to enter unannounced, also takes care of rattlesnakes and the occasional feral dog, coons, foxes and coyotes trying to get in the chicken coop. Best part is, when the bed is made they are not noticeable.


But, there is a Aero/Tromix 16" 375 Socom with a Bushnell Tac Ops holographic red dot behind the chest a drawers hidden away from the doorway with 2 mags filled with 11 200gr rounds each taped together for bigger emergencies

Edit after reading a previous reply:


We are on 475 acres, it's 1.1 mile from the paved road to the house, if you show up unannounced, rattle a door knob, or check out the equipment barn, shop or chicken coop, you gonna get ventilated, maybe a couple times

What style of hunting have you done with shotguns, and how much?

The pussification of the American male continues....

I agree with Dan. A shotgun is very lethal, and a home invasion would be one where distance is very close. A scattergun with the right loads would put any pos to rest.. Even birdshot or 7 1/2 shot intended for clay pigeons would prove deadly as fugg.. Blue doesn't know half of what he pretends to..

Dumbass.

There are plenty of places where there is no legal duty to retreat from a confrontation. My home state being one of them.

Pot meet kettle statement of the century.

Proficiency > tools

Training > tech

You don't need the "best" tool if you're really good with the tool(s) you have.

A 10.5-12.5" AR loaded with Gold Dots and wearing a can and an Aimpoint is my preference. But, if I trained a lot with my 590a1, I doubt that there would be a difference in most social use situations.

That's for those who have developed great proficiency. Many of these fellows would have to practice with a shotgun to hit a rabbit whereas others could shoot you in the face without even thinking about it.

Pointing is faster than aiming. Which Are you faster with? Maybe it is a pistol for one fellow and not another.

An interesting addition to the debate is those not a sbs shotguns. Having killed a considerable number of deer and more rabbits, shot from the hip, they make me wonder. Slower or faster than a short shotgun? Hafta to try to know.

Dunno what some of you fellas know or don't know about scatterguns, but I'll pass this along FWIW and you are free to use whatever you want to defend your castle.

- In general terms rifles/pistols are aimed with sights whereas shotguns are aimed instinctively. Moving targets compound the matter a bit and presumably some residential engagements will involve poor light and close quarters. In such circumstances instinctive shooting has an advantage.

- The primary objective in self defense actions is to disable your attacker, first and foremost. Inside the typical residential dwelling 30-40' is a "long" shot. Shotgun patterns at this range will hover in the 6-12" range depending on many variables. This provides a higher probability of a hit than a single projectile. A hit anywhere on a perp with a load of birdshot will cause, at the very least, a major distraction for the invader. In the gut, torso, head or extremities you will be rewarded with a conversion to wailing little girl mode, or perhaps just the sound of silence. At those distances a torso/facial hit will prove totally debilitating in the least. It is a desirable outcome unencumbered by the need for sights, lights or other BS.

- It is possible that one may have family residing in the residence and I must ask if anyone thinks that shot will carry thru drywall/studs as vigorously as a rifled projectile? Do you know for certain where your kids are once this begins to unfold? I know some kids are brats and often a nuisance, but it is doubtful you want them dead. Likewise, perhaps you have neighbors. Want to shoot thru your frame home wall(s) and theirs for a double? I doubt it.

- If the battle moves to the great outdoors you will find that heavy birdshot still leaves a serious mark out to as far as 40-60 yards, depending on a number of variables such as shot size/choke. Center a pattern on a bad guy's belly button and he won't be much of a bother after the fact, even at longer distance.

- Riddle me this: While providing support for infantry units n 'Nam I saw a large percentage of patrol point men using Win. Model 12s stuffed with buckshot. They could have carried M16s but chose otherwise. Why do you think they did that? A similar thought arises re: hog hunting in the USA. My Ithaca 37 20 ga whacked three hogs with one load of #3 buck....3 times and I'm not talking about shoats. In every case the shot passed thru the target and snuffed hogs in the background. If one chose buck for home defense they might want to keep that in mind. No tracking was required. Round shot penetrates better than most might imagine.

- If one has no real experience with shotguns they likely will fare better with a pistol or rifle of some sort, but my observation is that most folks have little understanding of the lethality of shotguns. 00 Buck is over rated by most based on emotions rather than reality and smaller shot offers many advantages, not the least of which is a favorable outcome, be it for hunting or self defense. Oh, one last thing. Up close and personal, a shotgun will put the most awesome hole in the bad guy. Hollywood almost has that figured out properly.

Just wait until BSA gets his benchrest set up...

Dan certainly made his point.

This is my 20 Gauge, No. 3 Buck, “personal home greeter” for hostile man or beast:



Contrary to myth, a shotgun pattern does not spread sufficiently to allow for careless aim, even from a “sawed-off.”

Go away, Buffalo Chip.

My shotgun is my go to for home defense. The likelihood that I would be awakened from a sound sleep or at least in a drowsy state and then the need to jump into full self defense mode (at my age -I'm 70+) and expect great accuracy with my handgun or even an AR seems like a moot point. Grab the shottie, reactively point and shoot is the conclusion to which I have arrived. The idea of an SBR'd AR however is appealing - either a BO or even my 10.5" (suppressed) 5.56. Hopefully, I will never have to find out. I suspect that within a minute or two of any shots being fired most perps will head for the hills or a hospital ER. Except for the most determined of thieves or those on drugs, the average confrontational gun fight is over rather quickly. My German shepherd and my Malinois might have something to add to an intruders discomfort before I can make my point!!

If you're going to give up the speed advantage of pointing, you'll gain some back with less recoil. A .223 can be set up to shoot nearly flat.

A shotgun will certainly stop the threat if the situation is favorable to a trained shooter. Few folks could move effectively through a structure w/ multiple doorways and T intersections w/ out training and practice. Adding a long gun to the problem increases the degree of difficulty. Only the lightest of shotgun pellets will not penetrate 1 or more walls. Can you make a headshot on a scrote holding a hostage in front of them at 15 yards w/ your choice of loads. For many people weapon retention in in an entangled engagement is more probable w/ a handgun.

Move your fight to the outdoors and learn the difficulty of running that shotgun from the prone and the joy of 5-7 rounds in your gun w/ slow reloads. Aimed fire vs. point shooting is no longer even a subject of rational debate. Much has been learned since 9/11 and the the average civilian can take a well run FoF class and prove for themselves what works for them.

No tool replaces a determined mindset which leads to focused training and deliberate, constant practice.

YMMV


mike r

Thanks, I was in need of a good laugh this morning.
You were joking, right?

You should shoot one from a bench and report your findings.

But bad guys piss themselves and hightail it out of Dodge at the sound of a shotgun racking.

In my bedroom is a 16” AR loaded with 77 gr SMK’s, an Aimpoint red dot ready to go, a Benelli 21” M1 Super 90 loaded with #4 buck, an M&P45 with a light loaded with 230 gr HST and a G19 loaded with 124 Gold dots, also has a light.

The two occasions I’ve had to grab a gun and search out the “noise” I’ve grabbed my 45. If I was going to stay in my bedroom and make a stand I’d grab the AR.

I’ve known of 2 shootings with a shotgun, one from a front yard to the porch, the other across a kitchen table. Both birdshot and both very fatal. But you pick the best tool for the job.

The spare magazine is loaded with No. 4 Bird Shot, for a quick change-out. Maybe they should be reversed.



As with TRW, other assets are kept available, at the ready.

TRW’s choice of shot size shows considerable thought. In a 12 Gauge, No. 4 Buck is preferable to 00 for this use, in my view.

Handgun ,shotgun as a backup.

Same here. IF you in the house, you a problem.

Benelli Nova Tactical with strobe attached. S&W M&P 9mm in bed holster. Wife has a Ruger LCR w/38+P loaded.

As far as damaging your target goes, a shotgun is amazing at close range; say house distance. When I was a teen my friends and I were a threat to seek out inanimate targets if the doves weren’t flying or the squirrels weren’t showing. I can tell you a certain Sweet Sixteen, modified choke, and 6, 7 1/2, or 8 shot will cut down a 4” pine sapling at a surprising distance. At 20’ or so I don’t think a man would walk away with any torso shot. YMMV

Keep a fn 509 tactical 9mm at bedside as well as a 11.5” 556 with dead air sandman s with Holosun red dot. 55g vmax in a surefire 60 round mag. 24+1 and 60+1

Where I come from being in someone else’s house is more than enough intent to get you smoked legally and on the spot. No DA would bat a eye at it either.

No obligation to retreat. Castle doctrine

And they don't run from the sounds of a falling AR BCG??

I leave Clint Eastwood spaghetti westerns playing on the tv every night, so that intruders will recognize the four clicks of my peacemaker.

Not so, here in America. We apply the Castle Doctrine.

Good points but how much applied to average homeowners in their homes? We're not shooting up the neighborhood. We have no immunity and are liable for damages. Nevermind a neighbor down range.

A crook would be welcome to escape with my tv, if I had one, if it meant I didn't have to patch up the walls, paint and replace siding.

Shotgun tip: the edge of the pattern is effective. At short range, put the edge ob the leading half of the rabbits head to avoid ruining the part you eat.

Frangible 5.56 will stop any threat in the house without shooting up the neighborhood.

Shotguns are betting on one or two intruders, who are hit amd incapacitated while you reload.

And, if the intruders have ARs or AKs, they can retreat out of your range and still fire on you with effect.

Point being, shotgun for urban? Maybe. If you live in a nice urban neighborhood where the home intruders promise to come in groups not more than two.

Rifle or carbine for suburban? Probably.

Rifle or carbine for farm and ranch? A certainty.

A gunfight must be won to worry about the next gunfight, so having a carbine in the safe downstairs and a pistol in the bedroom doesn’t make sense to me either.

This question of capacity...how many times do we get to miss and still survive?

My practice range only has three target stands. As I said before I like the idea of a bullpup with 40gr VMax. I don't see me learning it as well as a lifetime of hunting has trained me with a shotgun.

Around here, it's usually at least 3 guys with guns who kick the door in the middle of the night, which suggests having way more than 6 or 7 shots available.

As far as shotguns, I watched a guy pattern a Benelli M4 a few years ago, at about 30 yards, with 00 buck. The pattern was only about 6 inches, so "scattergun" did not apply. YMMV, of course depending on gun, chokes, and loads. So you'd still have to aim it roughly as well as a rifle, under duress. More recoil & fewer shots on board. So, I keep an AR handy.

One of these days I might get a bullpup shotgun perhaps a Tavor or similar, which helps the ergos.

There just isn't any well reasoned compelling argument to choose a shotgun over an AR carbine for self defense. Be it in the home, around a homestead farm/ranch or in a much bigger area outdoors the carbine wins on all fronts from 30' - 300+ yards. And I say that as a shotgun guy. I grew up with shotguns and have hunted a lot of game with shotguns and shot a good bit of clay's on the skeet and sporting clays range near me. Small game, wingshooting, turkey, deer and hogs and a heck of a lot of called coyotes, bobcats and fox. In certain predator calling circles I have a reputation as the guy who years ago started getting real serious about finding the ultimate shotgun, choke and load combinations for calling coyotes. I am about to retire from a 32 year law enforcement career that has shoved me into a few scenarios in which shotguns played an immediate role in my survival. I have seen the results of what a shotgun can do in a gunfight. I used an issue 870P to defend myself and a partner officer when ambushed by a whacked out meth head. It worked - decisively. I have investigated shootings involving shotguns, trained with, qualified with and been issued shotguns for a very long time now. I have a long interest in shotguns and currently have both a personally owned 870P pump and a Benelli M1 Tactical that I am not getting rid of for any reasons. With all that said I no longer rely on a shotgun as a primary long gun for self defense. AR carbines have taken over that role. The AR carbine checks all the boxes and just makes more sense all things equal.

“Just go out on the porch and fire two blasts into the air from your shotgun”. Seems like I heard that suggested by someone, somewhere.

My M2 Tactical was almost that good with the Federal FliteControl Low Recoil rounds.

My Benelli with modified choke does about an 8" - 10" pattern with the Federal Tactical Flite Control #1 Buck round at 30 yards. That is 15 .30 caliber pellets in the 2.75" shell.

I mostly agree.

That said, if I was somewhere where the AR couldn't hold more than ten rounds or had a fixed mag, a shotgun loaded with 8 would be in the equation.

Shotguns are heavier, longer, recoil more, hold less ammo, are slower to reload, and slower to fire. They’re a disadvantage in every objectively measurable way.

The only reason they’re popular is from pure nostalgia. If they were introduced for the first time tomorrow they wouldn’t be considered viable by any reasonable person, for all the reasons listed above.

The only potential positive is that the shots spreads out so you *theoretically* don’t have to aim them as precisely.

Which is another way of saying “When I don’t aim it at the bad guy, and sometimes when I do, I send buckshot careening through my house at who-knows-what”……Which isn’t an advantage at all.

Well, you fellas are certainly free to use whatever you wish.

FWIW, a learned shotgun shooter does not "aim". Assuming one has done their homework and the gun fits, it is pointed, nothing more or less and as a result there is little if any memory of the barrel/target picture after the boom. Daytime, nighttime makes no difference. I would not rely on a 2-shooter, there are many styles out there that hold 5 or more. That said, I walked into a wad of hogs some years back with a H&R Topper .410 and a fist full of slugs. The Topper is a SS break action gun. 4 were dead at the scene and one waddled off somewhere else to kick the bucket. Why? Well, the first shot was at a stationary target, the rest were on the run and the 4th shot was not quite perfect. I had one in the chamber and 4 between my fingers and thumb. It ran off behind some brush before I could pull more ammo out of my pocket and I had to defend myself from #5. Li'l bastid got blood all over my jeans. Don't go into a gunfight with a fella wielding a break action shotgun and think you won after he fires twice. Might be a surprise awaiting.

I imagine most of you gents are looking at your own setting when talking about this stuff and I understand that. My own is such that it would be difficult to have a visual which provided a shot much beyond 50 yards. Long way of saying a load of heavy shot will work inside or outside, matters not one whit. If I run out of ammo for the scattergun I do have a jam-o-matic for backup.

I was fiddling around awhile back with an old damascus 12 bore double loaded with brass shells and #4 buck at the 20 yard line. Full choke on both tubes and they shot about the same patterns to the same pattern center and I considered it rather enjoyable. 30" circle on the target. I suspect that gun and load would be adequate out to around 50 yards. BTW, buckshot in the house is unnecessary and ill advised.


Thing of it is that what most don't realize is that different barrel/choke/load combinations don't always do what one might expect. I have another 12 ga that with the FC barrel will pattern a load of 00 buck in about 6" at 30 yards. Same gun with the IC barrel patterns more in line with expectations, but if one loads shells with a light shot charge (7/8oz) it will shoot 7-1/2/8/9 birdshot into absurdly small patterns at 30 yards. Somewhere in the 15"-20" size. They are all different and have many quirks.

Have fun, don't take any prisoners. They just bitch, bitch, bitch.....

Where the hell is BSA to settle this once and for all?

A couple 20 shot groups would settle this once and for all.

I don’t want BD coming at me with a shotgun, or Maverick coming at me with an AR, so I guess it’s a draw.

eems like there are more than a few guys here who think proper use of a shotgun involved in wingshooting and clays games correlates to the proper use of a shotgun in a defensive, or offensive situation. there is a reason that shotguns are being replaced in patrol cars. largely for the reasons Blue mentioned above. I will take a short barreled AR with an optic all day every day over a shotgun for social purposes.

Not too surprising, shotguns can get pretty messy in crowded areas. But for home defense, that can be an advantage...

Intolerant attitudes can help make that mess!

well one selling point often touted by the salesmen is less wall penetration (I.e. flying thru the next room) by pellets that go wide of the target..

Funny stuff. I have a double barrel 20 that weighs a few ounces over 5#. A pump gun and 12 O/U that weigh a bit over 6, and the other three just 7# or a few ounces more. So, ya, heavier that butterflies.

That is entirely dependant upon ammo choice. A .223/5.56 with the right ammo is no more a threat of over penetration than a shotgun. In fact, that .223/5.56 round is most likely safer indoors than a hollow point bullet from a service pistol caliber like 9mm, .40 or .45 ACP.

What bullet do you in the know load for “interior” work?

Gold Dots, and don't shoot towards my kids room.

😜

In my neighborhood, the only intruders with ARs who would break into my house in groups greater than two would be a police SWAT team who have come to the wrong address.

And I probably would not win any argument with them.

Start watching at 17.30:

Of course just about any on the ballistic tip style bullets in the 50-60 grain range will demonstrate performance similiar to the Hornady Critical defense used for this test:

Start at 12.15: