Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire Open mouth - lose your TRW M14NM

Unbelievable that somebody would say anything to the BATFE about this:

https://www.texasguntalk.com/thread...nt-gift-rifle-confiscated-by-atf.107650/

I am a Vietnam vet. My dad was a WWII D-Day 29th Inf hero. He was a career senior army nco and retired at Ft Hood where he died from a car accident in the late 1970s. He had a TRW M14NM that he gave to my brother, Dad got it under AR920-25 (attached) which is still to this day referenced in "The Code of Federal Regulations" (scroll to bottom of this page)

eCFR :: 32 CFR Part 623 -- Loan of Army Materiel
www.ecfr.gov www.ecfr.gov

My gun was made in a batch of 4,874 new M14NM rifles TRW manufactured in 1964. It was NEVER automatic capable as the attached letter from TRW attests.

If you will read the judges brief from the lawsuit, (attached) the judge never refers to the rifle in question as an M14 in fact he always references it as the "NM" He also makes a very clear the distinction between a M14 and an M14NM earlier in the brief.

There have been a few confiscations of M14 rifles in the past but mine is unique. It is only 700 serial numbers from the one in the (attached) lawsuit and is one of the "M14NM" built by TRW specifically for DCM (Department of Civilian Marksmanship)

M14NM even caries a different National stock number (see AR920-25)

My brother died of covid earlier this year and I got the TRW M14NM. My attorney advised me to notify ATF so there would be no doubt of the legality of it.

I notified them on May 19. I felt that even if they ruled it was a machine gun I would be best off if I had an 07 FFL so I applied, was interviewed and got it in the mail on Saturday 8/23. I sent ATF an email that day. FIRST THING MONDAY AFTER A FOUR MONTH WAIT:


Good morning Mr. XXXXX I apologize for the late reply. I have received information back from our Firearms and Technology Division (FATD) regarding your M14NM. The TRW M14 NM in question is a “machinegun” and “firearm” under the NFA. As you did not manufacture the firearm while possessing an 07 FFL with current SOT, under 18 U.S.C. 922(o) it is contraband. It is FATD’s view that this is a “machinegun” because it is readily restorable.

In U.S. v. One Harrington, 378 F.3d at 534, the Sixth Circuit found that the ATF's analysis was thorough, its reasoning valid, and its decision consistent with earlier pronouncements; therefore, it found that the classification of the receiver was not arbitrary, capricious or an abuse of discretion. Similarly, in U. S. v. One TRW Model M14, 294 F.Supp.2d at 901-902, the district court concluded that the ATF's classifications were to be reviewed under an arbitrary and capricious or abuse of discretion standard, and that the ATF' s classification of the M-14 as a "machinegun" had not been shown to be arbitrary. Likewise, in U.S. v. One TRW U.S. Rife Model 14, no. CV-02-264-TUC-RCC, (D.Az. 2004) (unpublished), the district court applied the arbitrary and capricious standard to the ATF's classification of the M-14 receiver as a "machinegun" and concluded that it did not abuse its discretion in making that determination.

Firearms not lawfully registered as required by the NFA may not be registered and legitimized by their possessors. They are contraband and unlawful to possess. You can make arrangements with your local ATF office to dispose of the item.

So I sent him the above information and they had Waco ATF contact me and two very nice young special agents confiscated it on 9/9/2021.

Found an attorney, he thinks we are in the right and can get it back. His fee? $20,000 up front.

I am retired and live off SS and 100% VA disability. I had a meeting with my family, we are going to borrow the money. When we win we will sell the rifle.

(Did I mention, it is also electro-penciled M21 on the heel, it was at one time a Vietnam sniper rifle.)

The ATF is WRONG!!!!!

How dim must one be to willfully inform the ATF about arms in their possession?

Gonehuntin: Idiocy on display here, at every level - lawyer, judge, plaintiff, ATF etc etc etc.
FMB.
Sheesh.
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

WTF. Him not a thinker.

Most people would have kept quiet.

,ATF will always err on the side of .Confiscate everything when and if they can. under demorats ,they will only get worse

Bad lawyer.....

This is racist LMAO

this.

Once you take possession of a non-registered firearm you're screwed one way or the other. Contact the ATF about it to try to get it registered and it’s gone. Say nothing about it and if ATF inadvertently learns about it due to the slip of the tongue with a friend, anything, now you’re doubly screwed. The gun is gone and you’re guilty of possessing an illegal weapon. Bye, bye!

your attorney just wanted a fee...
family firearm transactions don't require paperwork they may be passed freely back and forth...
unless one party is a prohibited person.

Much better to ask forgiveness, in the rare case it comes to that, than to seek advance permission. Your lawyer was covering his own ass.

I don’t think forgiveness is in the ATF’s vocabulary.

Then again, the poor guy could have just dummied up and if asked say 'it's an M1A'. 99.999% of folks wouldn't question it. I certainly wouldn't go around telling folks what it really is if I owned it just to avoid a hassle.

Wonder if his 100% VA was for stupidity