Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Express Rifles and Big Bores Only The great 458 Winchester. Everyone should own one at least once

Most resident moose hunters here are not trophy hunters -- and there are a lot of us! There are tags for calf, cows and bulls. For a 1400 lb bull to be actually harvested would be a very rare occurrence! I suspect the same would be true for resident Alaskans. While there might be a few 1800 lb class adult bulls, Alaskan residents are mostly meat hunters so will take what's available for the table, a calf, cow or 1100 lb bull.

Trophy hunting is entirely another matter. If someone out of state has hired an outfitter and paid, what? $10,000 for a "trophy" bull, then likely he/she will want the biggest possible within the limited time frame. In such a case he/she will not be toting a .30-06 - at least I wouldn't, unless the outfitter lucked out and had one tied to a tree not more than 50 yards away! If a trophy hunter is very selective in wanting the "best" bull possible, it could mean a shot at +350 yards, and not at a perfect angle. In such a scenario, I'd want at least a .338 magnum, and my 9.3 x 62 might even be better.

Of course, you know all that stuff, but I just thought I should explain where I'm coming from. That is, I think Sir Ron should multiply by 2500 rather than 1000 to give due credit to a standard .30-06 well loaded.

Bob
www.bigbores.ca

Amen !

Here is the TBPI of a 480-gr/.458 FN cast started at 1300 fps MV, assuming BC = 0.243 as for Lyman PH,
a Bagwell .45-70 Gov't. BPCR load:

1300 fps @ 0 yards TBPI = 1.113
1206 fps @ 50 yrds TBPI = 1.032
1128 fps @ 100 yds TBPI = 0.965
1015 fps @ 200 yds TBPI = 0.869
936.1 fps @ 300 yds TBPI = 0.801
876.1 fps @ 400 yds TBPI = 0.758
824.8 fps @ 500 yds TBPI = 0.706
779.0 fps @ 600 yds TBPI = 0.667

Here is the TBPI of a 300-gr/.375 Woodleigh PPSN started at 2500 fps MV, assuming BC = 0.380 as per Woodleigh,
a classic .375 H&H load:

2500 fps @ 0 yards TBPI = 1.021
2387 fps @ 50 yrds TBPI = 0.980
2227 fps @ 100 yds TBPI = 0.930
2067 fps @ 200 yds TBPI = 0.844
1869 fps @ 300 yds TBPI = 0.763
1683 fps @ 400 yds TBPI = 0.687
1513 fps @ 500 yds TBPI = 0.618
1361 fps @ 600 yds TBPI = 0.556

The .45-70 BPCR load surpasses the .375 H&H by a bit, all the way out to 600 yards.
It sure makes the .458 WinMag deniers look silly.

Sir Bob,
It is done, the multiplier is now 2500 lbs per 1.000 unit of BPI.

Wow ! A SAAMI .458 WinMag turning out 2.000 TBPI works with proper soft point loads on well placed body shots
on game up to 5000 pounds.
4000-pound hippo, no problemo.
For a 7,700-pound white rhino, elephant, or whale, switch to nondeforming FN solids.

Or use TBPI as a rough gauge: 1.000 = 1 H&H unit of TBPI

The .30-06 with 180-grainer at 2750 fps is about half an H&H unit.

The .458 WinMag with 500-grainer at 2150 fps is about 2 H&H units.

I have shot only one moose in Alaska with a .458 WinMag, a cow weighing about 800 pounds.
A handloaded 500-gr Hornady RNSN started at 2150 fps MV caused a DRT-bang-flop at 100 yards,
even though the jacket separated from the core of the bullet.
One rib was broken going in, three ribs were broken on the offside.

I would guess her average consort would weigh about 1200 pounds,
but there are indeed some giant old bull moose near a ton.
Just like there are average bison bulls that weigh 1300 pounds at 3 y.o. and 1600 to 1800 lbs at 5 y.o.
older ones over a ton,
and the rare giant close to 3000 pounds.
The .458 WinMag will handle them all with proper bullet and proper placement from proper range.

If sniping at 3000-pound animals from long range, use a TBPI of 1.2 at impact,
since (1.2 TBPI) x (2500 lbs/ 1.0 TBPI) = 3000 pounds.
Buy a donkey Sir Bob, for the calibration.

OK, with the rarity of 3000-pound bison bulls, only 1.0 H&H unit of TBPI is required for the "Ultimate Buffalo Rifle."
That will take care of about any critter up to 2500 pounds on the hoof.

Sir Jerry is onto a good load with his 450-gr TSX at 2418 fps with 83 grains of AA-2460.
Ditto Sir Bob with his 450-gr TSX at 2413 fps load with 84 grains of H335.
Both of those are from 24" barrels, corrected to MV by adding 11 fps to 5-yard chrono velocity, IIRC.

Previous top 450-grainer load from my Ruger No. 1 .458 WM with 24" barrel:
450-gr TSX, Hornady .458 WM brass, F-215 primer, COL 3.565", 87*F
83.0 grains AA-2230
3 shots, 5-yard Caldwell G2 chrono fps: 2493, 2495, 2492
Average = 2493 fps, so for BC = 0.369:
MV = 2504 fps

First 2 shots went into one hole at 50 yards and I pulled the third shot by a half inch,
or that is when my forend screw started bending and loosening. Ho hum. Fixed that.

TBIP if 450-gr TSX MV is only 2500 fps:

0 yards = 1.877
50 yards = 1.790
100 yards = 1.705
200 yards = 1.543
300 yards = 1.390
400 yards = 1.247
500 yards = 1.125
600 yards = 1.003

Better not shoot any 3000-pound bison bulls past 400 yards.
That is about the limit of my marksmanship on caribou anyway, with a .340 WbyMag, which is a puny cartridge compared to the .458 WM+.

Good stuff, Sir Ron,

In about a week I'll be taking off for a few days "Down East", so will miss some blog writing until I get back. Then I'll be checking in here again!

With our Federal Election tomorrow, followed by getting matters ready for the trip... well you know how that goes!

Bob
www.bigbores.ca

...Just to remind folks what the .458WM was originally designed to accomplish, I've taken the liberty to add to this conversation, albeit perhaps mundane to some.

To clarify, I am a firm believer in "heavy for caliber" bullets in all my rifles. I have no doubt there are bullets of many different shapes, weights, velocity, which achieve the same result. No disrespect to those shooters who are not of my ilk.

I was rootn' around in my ammo stash, and lo and behold, there were some of my old hand loads for my .458WM. I had not shot my rifle since my last journey to Zim (2017) so I thought...why not shoot this thing?

I filled four one gallon water jugs and placed them in a cardboard box, side by side. Between each jug,I placed a double layer of cardboard. Twelve total pieces of cardboard which includes the box itself. On a stump, I placed an old plastic Lucerne milk carton, and on top of the milk carton, I placed cardboard box with the water jugs. This put the "target" at about eye level. I fetched my trusty Winchester Model 70 .458WM, marched twenty yards, took a deep breath, exhaled slowly and let loose a 500gr Speer African Grand Slam.

Obviously the results were predictable, complete penetration, and a giant water spray. What was a bit of a surprise, the Lucerne milk box had a huge chunk missing from where the cardboard water jug box was sitting. There were pieces of plastic strewn outwards twenty feet beyond the stump. The AGS continued on its merry way into the brush beyond.

Of course this was an exercise in futility in some ways, because I knew from past experience shooting elephant how the AGS performed. The average distance shooting eles was roughly twenty yards, and side brain shots were pass throughs.

The AGS being a bit shorter than most FMJ bullets, I could load more powder with little, or no compressed loads to achieve velocities in excess 2200fps (without any deleterious problems) I decided increased velocity in MY rifle was not a distinct advantage and settled on 2185fps. Worked for me!

As an aside: To the late John Buhmiller, and the Winchester folks who designed the .458WM, you done good.

Now you guys can continue with your serious stuff.

Sir Bob,

Take care on the trip and I am hoping the satanists don't steal your upcoming election like they are doing here in the USA.
The Democrat voters of USA sure do remind me of The Walking Dead zombies of comic book/TV show infamy.
Looks like they are having a Joe Biden rally under the international bridge, highway overpass, at the Del Rio, TX border.
That's about 13,000 Democrat voters in a rally !
Though that Democrat rally is small by Trump standards for attendance at rallies,
it is a new record Democrat gathering, like a huge "herd" of zombies, or a huge "destruction" of feral cats,
or a huge "stench" of skunks.
What do you call a group of Democrats ?
A "damnation" of Democrats.
I made that up, but it is going to stick.

Back to TBPI not TBIP, ha ha on my typo:

The upcoming rifleshooter generation is a different breed, with their lack of admiration for the big bores,
hung up as they are on rat calibers and tactical style.
At least they will be well armed for the zombie apocalypse and CQB herd shooting.
Apparently the big bore is an endangered species in that scenario.
However, the .458 WM offers advantages for engaging herds at longer ranges,
whereby shooting amongst a herd of zombies could take out a dozen or more of them if their heads are in line.
Body shots can take down an equal number of them in a row for finishing with a sword slash or stab to the head.

We big bore fans are a dying breed, and it is our duty to hang on as long as we can to keep the art alive.
I am thinking that using 400-grain/.458 bullets for everything
might spare some wear and tear on the experienced practitioners of the art,
allowing us to keep kicking for a longer duration.
Physically less cumulative trauma on the body of the shooter,
mentally less distracting too, no fretting over changing bullet weight effects, etc.
"Beware the man with one bullet weight."

It is hoped that Hammer Bullets will soon be bringing out a winner
in the "Legendary" 400-grain/.458-caliber, monometal copper, Shock Hammer hollow point.
Hopefully it will have a ballistic coefficient about like the GSC HV (G1 += 0.372 at 2500 fps), or dare we hope for better ?

For 400-gr./.458-cal, Sd = 0.272, G1 BC = 0.372 and MV = 2500 fps
TBPI in H&H units <<< maximum game weight in pounds on the hoof:
2500 fps @ 0 yards = 1.483 H&H < << 3708#
2385 fps @ 50 yards = 1.415 H&H <<< 3538#
2273 fps @ 100 yards = 1.348 H&H <<< 3370#
2058 fps @ 200 yards = 1.221 H&H <<< 3053#
1856 fps @ 300 yards = 1.101 H&H <<< 2753#
1667 fps @ 400 yards = 0,989 H&H <<< 2473#
1495 fps @ 500 yards = 0.887 H&H <<< 2218#
1343 fps @ 600 yards = 0.797 H&H <<< 1993#

Optimum buffalo weights are nigh onto a ton at 600 yards, over 3000 pounds at 200 yards.
That'll do.
Many different 400-grain/.458-cal bullets of lesser BC will do at closer ranges.
Pick your 400-gr poison to sling at chosen MV.

This is an easily achieved, practical load in the factory .458 Winchester Magnum rifle with 3.4" magazine box length.
2600 fps MV is possible in the .458 WM+ with 3.6" magazine, or Ruger No. 1 single shot.
More fun than necessary is possible, just for kicks.

TSIBINDI,

Buy a donkey for this:



You have attained a seat at the Square Table.
What is your preferred Sir Name for Knighthood ?
BTW, I like all .458-caliber bullets from 250-grains to 600-grains,
but I am working a 400-grainer schtick right now.

OK, so the fancy bullets do not expand reliably below 1600 fps.
I did say pick your 400-grain poison as needed for the job at hand.
Remember Elmer Keith recommended a .45-70 lever action load with 400-gr FN cast lead at 1800 fps
for timber hunting of elk and such.
The TBPI of a 400-gr Lyman #457643 FN plain base FN at 1800 fps = 1.068 H&H units <<< 2670 pounds.
With a BC of whatever (G1 = 0.280 as claimed by Lyman), it would surely be able to handle something
like this bowhunted elk, arrowed by Sir Jerry's pal:



A hard cast lead FN of only 255 grains/.452-cal and 835 fps from a .45 LC is quite the penetrator.
Elmer's load will get the job done.
No expansion needed with a hardcast FN.

Sir Ron: Thank you for the invitation to the Square Table of .458WM believers.

I've given a great deal of thought to a proper sobriquet to follow "SIR" for the Square Table. Ele hunter will do nicely, if you please.

Sir Ele Hunter:

That will do nicely, just like your .458 Winchester Magnum.
Sir Jerry is the official beknighter with the flat of his Bagwell Bowie.
Many ceremonies will be performed retroactively at the next meeting of the Square Table.
You are the 16th living member.
The rest are whooping it up in the Happy Hunting Ground.

Whether it is Ballistic Science, Bedtime Story, or just that other kind of BS,
consider a ranking of muzzle whomp by BPI in H&H units at muzzle velocity, with Woodleigh Weldcore PPSN bullets from .308 caliber to .458 caliber,
listed in bold black, same type bullet construction for eight different bullets.
Downrange TBPI can be calculated (later) using G1 BC as provided here to use in a ballistics calculator.
These soft point Woodleigh bullets will be restricted to recommended maximum impact velocity or less.
Then a few other bullet types will be listed for consideration, including two cast bullets of note.
This may be useful as a treatment for insomnia, if nothing else.

.30-06 to .30-378 WbyMag:
180-gr, .308-cal, 2750 fps, SD = 0.271, BC = 0.376 (Woodleigh PPSN type 1, limited to 2900 fps impact): BPI = 0.492
180-gr, .308-cal, 3000 fps, SD = 0.271, BC = 0.435 (Woodleigh PPSN type 2, limited to 3000 fps impact): BPI = 0.537
220-gr, .308-cal, 3150 fps, SD = .331, BC = 0.930 (Lost River J4): BPI = 0.841

.340 WbyMag to .338 LapuaMag:
225-gr, .338-cal, 2900 fps, SD = 0.281, BC = 0.425 (Woodleigh PPSN limited to 2900 fps impact): BPI = 0.738
270-gr, .338-cal, 2900 fps, SD = .338, BC = 0.757 (Lost River J4): BPI = 1.065

.375 H&H to .378 WbyMag:
270-gr, .375-cal, 2700 fps, SD = 0.274, BC = 0.370 (Woodleigh PPSN limited to 2700 fps impact): BPI = 0.892
300-gr, .375-cal, 2600 fps, SD = 0.305, BC = 0.380 (Woodleigh PPSN limited to 2600 fps impact): BPI = 1.062
300-gr, .375-cal, 2740 fps, SD = .305, BC = 0.485 (Nosler AccuBond): BPI = 1.119
300-gr, .375-cal, 2940 fps, SD = .305, BC = 0.485 (Nosler AccuBond): BPI = 1.201

.416 RemMag to .416 WbyMag:
340-gr, .416-cal, 2600 fps, SD = 0.281, BC = 0.330 (Woodleigh PPSN limited to 2600 fps impact): BPI = 1.230
350-gr, .416-cal, 2846 fps, SD = .289, BC = 0.444 (Barnes TTSX): BPI = 1.426
400-gr, .416-cal, 2400 fps, SD = .330, BC = 0.392 (Barnes TSX): BPI = 1.569

.458 WinMag to .460 WbyMag:
400-gr, .458-cal, 2500 fps, SD = 0.272, BC = 0.340 (Woodleigh PPSN limited to 2500 fps impact): BPI = 1.483
400-gr, .458-cal, 2900 fps, SD = 0.272, BC = 0.340 (Woodleigh PPSN limited to 2500 fps impact at 150 yards and more): BPI = 1.720

.458 WinMag to .458 WM+:
450-gr, .458-cal, 2400 fps, SD = 0.306, BC = 0.369 (Barnes TSX): BPI = 1.802
450-gr, .458-cal, 2500 fps, SD = 0.306, BC = 0.369 (Barnes TSX): BPI = 1.877
500-gr, .458-cal, 2200 fps, SD = 0.341, BC = 0.378 (Woodleigh PPSN limited to 2200 fps impact): BPI = 2.045
550-gr, .458-cal, 2110 fps, SD = .375, BC = 0.340 (Woodleigh RNSN limited to 2200 fps impact): BPI = 2.373
600-gr, .458-cal, 2051 fps, SD = .409, BC = 0.392 (Barnes Original RNSN): BPI = 2.744

Heavy Hardcast Loads, consider to be .458 caliber on muzzle exit from a .458 Winchester Magnum, whatever the loaded sizing:
543-gr, .458-cal, 2203 fps, SD = 0.370, BC = 0.300 (SAECO #20 FNGC): BPI = 2.413
579-gr, .458-cal, 1406 fps, SD = 0.394, BC = 0.180 (AM 46-576 FNGC): BPI = 1.749

Some practical .458 WM+ loads will not even chamber in the short and tight-throated SAAMI .458 Lott.
If the perfectly safe load for the .458 WM+ has a bullet ogive that will allow it to chamber in the SAAMI .458 Lott,
it may cause excessive pressure when fired in the SAAMI .458 Lott.
Lottites beware.
Jack is spinning in his grave due to what SAAMI did to his wildcat.

After having a screw loose (on my Ruger No. 1, not me personally)
for my first trial of Buffalo Bore .458 WM load with 400-gr TSX,
I had to do it again, this time with my Ruger M77 Mk II with Shilen barrel. No loose screws.

If you do not mind paying 6-dollars per cartridge (before S&H), it is good stuff.
I fired $48 dollars worth of it yesterday, 8 shots.
2 shots to get on paper at 100 yards, scope adjustment after each shot.
Then 3 shots nearly zeroed.
Then a final scope clicking for last 3 shots.



One more adjustment and a one-shot check before hunting.

OK, I have 13 rounds of Buffalo Bore left over at cost to me of ~$6.60 per round including S&H to my door.
I would much rather be loading my own with a 400-gr./.458-cal Shock Hammer bullets.
Need to finish off the Buffalo Bore.
Better use it up for deer hunting instead of the planned cast loads, 407-grainers and 579-grainers.
I guess I am in a rut with 400-gr. copper right now, a rut for the deer rut.

Here is my deer rifle, again, this year, I must like this rifle.
Bare/empty weight in the HS Precision stock is about 9 pounds.
In the Zytel canoe paddle she weighs about 8.5 pounds bare.
Modeling a few of her outfits, below, is Alderella Ruger-Shilen, the "Knik Knocker."
That is pronounced "Kuhnick Kuhnocker," with short "u":

New material:







Here is a snapshot of the 1970 popularity of the .458 Winchester Magnum among African Professional Hunters.
Askins said that of the six PHs with the Safari South Company in Botswana in 1970,
five used .458 Winchester Magnum magazine rifles.
All except for John Kingsley-Heath, who had a pair of .470 NE double rifles by Holland & Holland.
Askins attributed this to Kingsley-Heath being "an Englishman to the very core."
Askins continued:
"Lionel Palmer swore by the .458 cartridge and fired it in a BSA rifle.
Walter Johnson had a pre-1964 Model 70, as did Duggie Wright."

That's ironic and not at the same time.
Wally Johnson was the PH for Jack Lott in 1959 in Mozambique when the cape buffalo tossed Jack Lott.
Jack got in two shots with his .458 WinMag (a soft into the guts and an FMJ-RN that went squirrely).
Wally emptied his .375 H&H into the bull and then picked up Jack's .458 WinMag from the ground, finishing the bull with that.
Irony: Jack Lott thought he needed more power than the .458 WinMag. Funny ha ha.
Irony not: Wally Johnson traded his Winchester M-70 .375 H&H for a Winchester M-70 African .458 WinMag.

Here is a better picture of Wally Johnson, whom Col. Askins hunted with in Botswana in 1970.
Yes, Wally used a .375 H&H Winchester M70 of 1938 vintage for his early years in Mozambique,
but by 1970 he had converted to the .458 Winchester Magnum,
after barely getting out of the bush war alive to carry on in Botswana.



Askins' first use of the .458 WinMag was in early to mid 1956 in Vietnam.
His family friend, John Olin, probably gave him that rifle for field testing.
It was the first-year production model with three-leaf express sight, 3/32" silver bead, and only one cross bolt.
Askins opined that a peep and patridge would be needed to adapt the African to Montagnard conditions,
as well as a southpaw version for lefties, of course !

Askins brought 13 firearms and 2600 rounds of ammo for his offduty recreational pursuits in Vietnam.
That also included one of the first production of .44 RemMag S&W M29 revolvers.
Dirty Harry's handgun and counter-sniper rifle (.458 WinMag) were both field tested early on by Col. Askins, in 1956.
What a great year it was, except for the Vietnam part !
Askins might be correct on his claim of being first to kill a man with the .44 RM.
It was a Viet Minh sniper using a MAS 49 (7.5x54mm) left by the French, taking pot shots at traffic on a road below a bluff.
Askins sneaked up on him, up a trail to the bluffs where he perched, "3-4 steps from the little bastard. I saw the wild look in his eyes
and he glanced around fearfully, meanwhile swinging the French 7.5mm off his shoulder."
Another successful handgun hunt.

Askins' first trip to Africa was in 1958, to Kenya, where he met up with his Vietnam acquaintance and hunting instigator from the CIA,
Allen Pope, grandson of Harry Pope. Allen brought his wife Yvonne along and she had appendicitis before the end of the safari.

They were booked for 35 days with the safari firm White Hunters "the leading outfitters in Kenya" in 1958.
Tony Dyer was 28 years old, schoolmate of Harry Selby. Dyer and another PH, Australian Bill Jenvey guided the soiree.
Askins said Dyer and Jenvey were both "bangup good" hunters.

By this time, Askins had his African M70 from Vietnam converted to port-sided bolt handle.
Askins killed 2 cape buffalo, an 80-pounder elephant bull, and a rhino with a "fairly decent horn" with the .458 WinMag.
No dramas. That was the only rhino Askins ever shot.
His first cape buffalo was the biggest-horned of a claimed 76 buffalo Askins eventually bagged, the next biggest of those being 47 inches.
Askins took 35 head in 35 days, the remainder included a leopard and eland but no lion.
Lesser game fell to a .243 WCF Model 88 lever action, and the rest was bagged well
with a prototype .338 WinMag M70 with bolt converted to left hand also, by Bob West, gunsmith.

Askins mistakenly wrote that he had taken the first cape bufflao in Africa bagged with a .458 WinMag.
It was a whopper, over 50 inches spread of horns.
But the first cape buffalo had fallen to Richard C. Heck two years earlier, in 1956, in Kenya also.
The first game to fall in Africa to the .458 WinMag was a Rhino in Kenya, 1956.
Dr. Stacy was Richard C. Heck's partner, and borrowed the .458 WinMag to shoot the Rhino.
See 11th Edition GUN DIGEST of 1957.

Askins may have been responsible for the first gaur (pronounced "goor" like "spoor" not "gower") taken with the .458 WinMag.
But it was by loaning his .458 WinMag to a USA General hunting buddy, Gen. Bergquist, his commander in Vietnam.
As with Richard C. Heck and Doc Stacy and the rhino in 1956 Kenya,
so it was with Col. Askins and "The General" and the gaur in 1956 Vietnam.
The gaur was over 3000 pounds, sort of like a bison from India, it has been said, largest of the bovids.
From UNREPENTANT SINNER THE AUTOBIOGRAPHY OF COLONEL CHARLES ASKINS:

















George Parker was a WWII combat buddy of Col. Askins. Here in 1956, he had just returned from a Safari in
Kenya with Tony Dyer's outfit, no doubt encouraging Askins to go there too,
which he began planning for the 1958 safari with Allen Pope.
Parker got the month-long, elephant-back shikar treatment while visiting Askins and Ngo Van Chi.
Askins came and went on that for 5 or 6 days at a time, whenever he could tear himself away from work.

On page 266 of his memoir, Col. Askins wrote this, about his return from his 1958 Kenya Safari:

"Once returned to New York I went directly to the Winchester office which in those days was in New York City. It has long since been closed out but it was thriving in those days.

"The company had their design engineers on hand. These were the buckos who had designed both the .458 and .338. I gave them a careful report on the performance of both cartridges. Both of course had performed brilliantly. Especially the .338 with which, quite naturally, I had shot a great deal of my game. The .458 I had reserved for the elephant, the rhino and two buffalo. I was enthusiastic about the loading. Most especially the .338.

"The design people listened eagerly and then one of them said, 'I think we'd better take the belt off the .338. I don't believe the shooters are going to go for that.'

"I vehemently defended the belt. 'Look, man,' I told this longhair, 'that belt has always been accepted as an indication of more power. A sort of super cartridge, a round with more oomph, more thump. Leave that belt alone. This round needs to be set apart as something very special.' I thought it was significant when the .338 was finally sprung on an all unsuspecting shooting public the belt was still there."

I have always loved Askins book. Raw and real. He makes no excuses for his actions. He titled it correctly I think. He did learn not to snipe across the river from the same position for consecutive days...