Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunting Rifles 358 Win Pre-64 Fwt

Just the nature of the beast I guess. Some were fine and some were put together a touch crooked. I'd assume that is why the old Redfield type windage mounts were somewhat popular back then. Today, with the Burris set up's, it really isn't a big deal.

The plan was to put the Trijicon on this '06 77 Mk II. But Ruger rings are what they are, not much you can do to move them. The Trijicon has a slightly shorter ER and tube length than the VX-3 3-9x40, so the Leupold worked out better on the Ruger. This Boyds Classic was cut down from 40 oz to 32 oz. I drilled out the butt, cut off the cheek piece, slimmed it down and finished it with tung oil/urethane (Pro Oil) from Brownells.

32 oz mo better than 40 oz, gun handles a lot better with the lighter weight handle.

DF

Here's where some of that extra weight went...

Notice absence of cheek piece and slimmed down butt stock

DF

Well, wall to wall then half way back with adjustments didn’t exactly fit the mirror trick. Took some twisting to zero center position. Now waiting for offset Signature set up to remount Trijicon. Will report.

DF

How much variance was there DF?

I didn't count the clicks, maybe 30 or so, more than I figured it would take.

The mirror is probably going to be a better indicator of optical center than half the total wall to wall clicks. I can't say why those two aren't the same, just didn't work out that way.

DF

I guess as long as it zeros up without too much being in the sides you’ll be good to go.

Look forward to tweaking Signature ring offsets. New experience for me. Never fooled with those before. They should be what I need for this.

DF

I want to thank Mathman for his help with this project.

It was his suggestion that horizontal Warne rings would work with the M-70 bolt handle and they did.

Again, suggesting the mirror trick to adjust a scope to optical center. I had forgotten about that.

It’s the details that make a project humm…. And technical details are a function of experience. And lots of that on this site. Others have chimed in and don’t ya just love it when a plan comes together.

And my wife wonders why I spend time here on the Fire. Thanks to all and thank you Rick.

DF

Unless you are using inserts to correct for misalignment I do not see the need to adjust the reticle to optical center. The reticle will end up in the same location either way once zeroed

It was working well near the edge of adjustment. Just the idea of having it near the center of optical range is a Loony idea. Trijicon optics were perfect even at the edge. Signature off set technology is new to me. Will work it out and report.

DF

I believe overall centering via inserts is the play he's making, so centered adjustments are what he wants.

I agree when using inserts

Operating a scope at or near optical center is theoretically preferred, although with the excellent Trijicon optics, I couldn't tell any difference. I found I was just a few clicks from adjustment limits as I was sighting in the load. It worked well, as one can see from the group I posted. It's just the idea of getting as close as one can to optical center for no other reason than, just 'cause.

After Beretzs related his experience with mounting scopes on P-64's, I realized that may just be a fluke with P-64's. I have other P-64's, haven't encountered that, but as he mentioned, I did use the old fashioned Redfield bases with the external windage adjustments. Ya reckon that could explain why such a mounting system was popular back in the day?

Signature offset inserts seem to be a good option for this rifle and I'm gonna give'em a whirl... I want to keep my Weaver bases, which work with other scopes set up for different type loads, like pistol bullets, etc.

I've had a lot of practice bore sighting, can generally put one on the paper at a hundred. I'll set up on a solid bench, bore sight and tweak the inserts until the optically centered scope is on target. I'll tighten down the rings, double check, then shoot. It should be close enough by then to complete the sighting in with scope adjustments and be pretty close to optical center..

DF

Update.

I received the Signature rings and offset inserts today.

I put the bases on the rifle, and, like in my pre horizontal Warne days, the M-70 bolt handle touched the power ring on the Tirjicon. I had the base screws on the right, swapped the rings around, base screws on the left. The bolt handle now misses the scope.

Seems as the base screw is tightened, the scope is pulled in that direction. We're not talking about much, but in this case, millimeters count. I put the +10 offset insert in the bottom of the rear ring, -10 on the top, neutral inserts, front. It may take more than that to center the scope with the POI. Hopefully, I can play with it this weekend and report back.

If the scope was adjusted near the top of the adjustment range for zero, jacking up the rear ring should make it shoot higher, allowing me to adjust the elevation turret downward for zero. But, the reticle is now centered, so we'll see where it is on the target when I boresight. I'll tweak inserts to get as close as possible before I adjust elevation and windage.

This is going to work. Not sure +10 is enough, just guessing, we'll see. But, I have +20 insert and can combine offset rings in opposition for even greater offset.

DF

Help me figure this. This Trijicon has 270 clicks top to bottom, so 135 clicks from top to center. If I was 4 clicks from the top when I shot the 160 Raptor group, then it seems there are around 130 or so clicks down to where I want to be.

I'm not sure how accurate this is, as the mirror trick was a bit off (30 clicks or so) from those calculations. With 4 clicks per inch, that would calculate around 32". With the reticle now optically centered, does that mean I'm approximately30 MOA off, I know MOA is not exactly an inch and I'm not sure how the Signature rings coincide with the horizontal Warne's.. Would I need +20 rear, -10 front with ring spacing around 6" to have the reticle centered scope at POI?

Guess I'm gonna find out.

DF

I have never been that far off DF, but generally you use the +20 in the back and -20 negative in the front. They come with good instructions on what you’ll need in order to get it squared up. Depending on the length between the rings that should get you close to center.

The rings should come with a cheat sheet that even a Marine can’t mess up, too badly

You right about that. Great instruction even an old Army guy can follow. Maybe even a Marine.

It was a pleasure working with these Signature rings and offset inserts.

Ya reckon one can over think these things. Seems I did.

Bottom line, +10 at the rear for elevation, lateral 5 at the front for windage, it's now on solid at 25 yds. I haven't shot it yet, but after 50 yrs. of bore sighting, I know where it is. +20 at the rear was too much.

And, the P-64 bolt handle misses the Trijicon power ring. Those are quality rings. I know they'll slide off the Weaver bases, but I won't try that until I'm done and the rings are tight where they're gonna stay.

Thanks,

DF

Bit late in discovering this thread, but just wanted to say you did amazing work on that rifle, DF. The Winchester looks like a million bucks. And as always, soaking up info like a sponge from lots of you fellas throughout the convo.

Thanks,

Welcome aboard, it's been a neat project.

DF