Home Forums Birds & Dogs Hunting Dogs Gun shy dog?

I have a 20 month old wire haired pointing griffon. Last summer as a pup we shot 22s near her while we were camping and stuff and she was fine. She never seemed bothered at all and during the 4th of July she was just upset because we made her stay in the house.

A few months ago we were camping and one of my kids fired his 22 rascal with her about 50 feet away and she acted shy. I had the kids stop shooting right away. I have since been out in the back yard playing with her dummy bird and having her retrieve it. My 7 year old daughter came out on the back porch and fired her little dollar store cap gun about 100 feet from the dog.. The dog immediately headed in the house and didn't want to play anymore.

We didn't get her out bird hunting much last year because she got terribly car sick as a pup. We tried to take her out but she would puke all over everything and foam at the mouth. She's over that now and likes to go for rides but now gunshyness has set it.

Is there anything I can do to get her past being gunshy. I've heard all kinds of advice much of it opposite of what the last guy said. We are going to take her out on the youth pheasant hunt again tomorrow and see if we can get her on a bird. We took her to the management area on Saturday but the fish and game didn't release the birds they were supposed to so we never saw a bird.

She's a smart dog and strong willed. She's pointed since she was a pup. She stayed with us well on Saturday in the field and didn't get too far out front. She really liked running around. She seemed a little nervous when she saw the shotgun and was in too close at first but she moved out and worked ahead of us. I'm hoping to just get her on some birds and get her really excited about hunting. Then maybe try a shot a ways away from her.

I really hope there's a solution. Our last dog was gushy the whole 10 years we had her. I really want one we can hunt.

Bb

I’ve heard some posit that gun shyness has an inherited component, hence they don’t/won’t breed a gunshy dog. I personally don’t know where it lies in the whole nature vs nurture spectrum. However, if it were my dog, I would stand beside her and pet her and reassure her and give her treats while the pop gun was fired at a distance. As she becomes more comfortable, move in closer. If she seems fine with this, I would start over and repeat with something a little louder like a .22. Eventually, move up to a shotgun at a distance and then closer. The treats, petting, reassurance are used to create a positive association with the noise or at least an ignorance of it. Maybe some retrieves as she becomes more comfortable while firing at a distance. Others may have a different approach. Good luck! I hope you can work through it as some dogs never seem to get past it.

We have 4 SM's - none are gun shy. When you're hammering a nail, they will try to stick their nose right where you are striking. When you shoot a gun they get excited and run to where you last aimed. If you miss, they look at you like...um...don't miss.

Hell, just opening the gun safe or showing them a collar gets them so excited that you better do something with them.

But...one hates the vacuum cleaner and will run in the other room when it's on. And one hates the lawn mower and runs inside when it's running. They all love the 4 wheeler and dive on the seat like saddle bags when it's on, same with tractor, and rtv. If you say 'truck' they run around them until a door is open to get inside. One hated the truck when we first got her so I just fed her in the truck while she was a pup and now she is the worst one...once she gets in...she refuses to get out unless she goes on a ride...and around the block doesn't cut it anymore. So we make short trips to ACE.

Anyways, I noticed the breeders would clang their dishes together when they were getting ready to be fed as pups and get them riled up and clap their hands. So' I'd try that. Also to me, a 22 has a hypersonic crack that is different from a shotgun...so I'd probably just get her all birdy and use some hulls with only a primer in them for initial exposure.

Or, probably the best thing to do would be to find a navhda chapter near you and go to some of their training events. They have people who can work with you and see the dog and give great advice.

All while giving his food; I started with clapping hands, then to banging pot lids, then to cap guns at a distance moving closer has he showed not ill signs. Now the sound of a gun sends him into instant search mode! Almost a hazard with just plinking and he's around.

I'd be interested to hear how she does on the hunt.

All the above info is good to prevent gunshyness but you already have the problem, if it were me I would get some pigeons , tether them them with about 20 ' string, cord, whatever.,tied to a plastic bottle so it won't fly very far. let the dog point the pigeon , probably on a check cord to start with, flush the pigeon while he is chasing the pigeon fire a cap buster or 22 . if he shows shyness pay him no mind keep his interest on the bird.He must associate the noise with something good, he is interested in. This works very well but should have been started at first hint of the problem. I have seen very few older dogs cured from this problem sorry to say but good luck. Hope this helps.

It may be too late.

Loud bangs during feeding, long walks at the gun club are all things I do early on.

Having said that, I've never had a driven dog that gave a phrack about a gun. It only excited them for their job.

There is also a social component to gun shyness. My dogs never thought 4th of July was anything other that a party where everybody hunted except them...... until they started living with dogs that were fearful, and now they hide in their kennels on the 4th.

I’ve had a couple of dogs that tended to gunshyness, but they got over it by simply hunting. Get them full on chasing something (doesn’t have to be a bird, whatever they like to chase) and shoot it. If there lots of wing flopping after the sho, even better. If they break off at the shot, run to the bird and enthusiastically pick it up and make a big deal out of it. Work that social component in their psyche where they cue off your emotions. If you’re happy about getting the bird, they’ll be happy about getting the bird.

For the first 1.5 years of my current dog's life, everytime the thunder started booming outside, he demanded to go outside.

I'm convinced he though God was hunting without him.

I’ve been around gun shy dogs my whole life and haven’t seen one get over it. If you like the dog I would keep it as a pet. When I was a kid my grandpa had a gun shy beagle and we used 22’s and when you missed the rabbit the dog would take off for the house and we would go back pet it up real good and lead it back to where we missed the rabbit and it would take back off on the track!! I know a guy that has a good rat terrier squirrel dog and it is so gun shy you have to hold he gun behind your back when your walking up to the tree or it will take off but after you shoot it will get over it and go tree another. Most bird dogs and labs aren’t gun shy.

smart female dogs seem to get gun / bang shy easier . 1st let her just see a gun and smell it ,if you have a old beater gun let her sleep around it and be with a gun all the time. then move on with slowly development in her training. always take a rifle or shotgun with if you can when you go for a walk and let the dog sniff the gun , but do not shoot the gun . i wish you great luck,Pete53

.22 rimfire are sharper than a shotgun report. I would take her to a Skeet field and walk towards the noise from a distance. Some dogs don’t get over it.

I had a Britt that was starting to show some gun shyness.... a gun would go off and he would go run and hid under the truck.

I stopped letting any loud noises or gun fire near the dog at any time for any reason... just walked the dog 2 miles every day and did some yard training.

Once we got to hunting season... the only time he would hear a gun shot was when he had a snoot full of bird sent... once he is into a bird... nothing else in the world mattered... you can empty the gun at a bird and just gets more excited...

My advice would be to quit trying to condition your dog to gunfire.... your goofing her up... she doesn't need to hear a gunshot until there is a bird in the air. and then... she won't care... because she has a snoot full of bird sent to work.

Good advice from mikieb. I also had a timid pup that shied away from loud noises.Taking him to a skeet field only made it worse. When hunting season opened I only shot birds that I knew would fall in front of him. After one day of that, he has never had a problem. Five years old now and going strong.

Sorry to hear it, I have no experience with it. I just have plain old labs who like fireworks on the Fourth of July

I’m no dog trainer but had a young Golden Retriever that I tried firing a .22 when he was feeding. But when it got bigger and louder he began to withdraw.

I finally took him to weekly trap shoots one summer, not to shoot, but to sit with him behind the line, and feed him treats whenever he seemed nervous.

In part, because of that I don’t know, but he turned into a gung-ho retrieving beast in the field. I still think of him fondly and somewhat sadly as I had to sell him in his prime when I went back to school.

There are two components to this.

1) You missed the time to condition your dog to noises. However this can be remedied.

2) put away the .22's, blanks, what have you. Start with yard work involving live birds and dog on check cord. From there take it to the field. As Mikieb said get the dog out on live birds, I personally would be shooting the birds and letting the dog either retrieve if it does, or show the dog the birds in its face. I would keep the dog on a check cord the whole time. When the dog is on point step on the cord, shoot bird. Praise dog every time.

Layoff the shooting and birds, birds, birds.....

Associate guns with fun is what has worked for me with gun shy dogs.

Go to Skyline Gun Club to shoot some skeet or trap. Put the dog in airline crate in the back of your truck where it can't see but can hear the shooting. Later you can move the crate closer to the shooting still not seeing the shooting going on. This has always worked for me with pups and young dogs.

I cured a vizsla from being gun shy.


start young age 3 to 5 months ( based on personality drive of puppy) after basic obedience training. I start with a pellet rifle empty of course during my retrieval training and give food rewards every successful retrieve. Throw the dummy in air , shoot pellet rifle, give fetch command. Ill introduce frozen quail, pheasant, hun, grouse, duck carcasses in retrieves to further interest dog. I do that for a few weeks . Then introduce 22 rifle. I stand at least 30 yds from dog, throw dummy, frozen bird carcass for a few weeks shooting every time , then a 20 gauge shotgun from about 50 yds. I use someone to hold dog. I slowly move closer to dog over a few weeks. Ill run two shooters once dog is comfortable. Ive seen dogs freaked out by multiple shooters after being gun trained with one gun.

Any set backs I go to step one. Ill then introduce live hobbled birds in retrieve, and shooting with shotgun. After I get prey drive established with live birds( no retrievals)

Make it fun , short sessions. Any hesitation take a few days break and start from beginning depending on dog's disposition.I think incorporating, fun, excitement into foundation of gun training is important, at least based on my experience.

Ill use a shock collar on vibrate in training if dog is distracted or stubborn.

Lots of good ideas. I put a bb gun in by her food and water bowl. She noticed it at first but has adjusted. I took her out on the youth hunt with my 9 year old and she stayed ahead of us and ran around but we didn't get into any birds.

Last week I took her out to the WMA to hunt. She ran around a bit but stayed pretty close to me. I had 1 long shot at a bird that someone nearby kicked up and it flew behind me pretty far out. I took a shot just to see what she would do. She didn't run off but did stay in real close to me or just behind me after that. She looked a little confused but I just played up the excitement.

I think if I can get her on some birds and get her excited about it she'll be ok. I grabbed the shotgun today and put it in the truck and she wanted to go with. I'm going to take her out tomorrow and hopefully get her on some birds. I think there's hope for her I just need to get her on birds and get her excited. She's very smart and comes from good hunting parents and great lines.

Her hips check out so we are going to do some more testing before we decide whether to fix her or not. I met a field trials judge that really wants me to bread her to a stud he knows that's a state champ. He was just going off her looks though he liked her fur texture and coloration along with her build. He said she has the classic orangish Grey and liver color or something like that. If I can get her fired up about hunting we may breed her in a few months at her next heat. If she's not hunting yet I may wait or just get her fixed. I'm not sure what to do but it wouldn't seem right to breed a hunting breed if she's not hunting.

She is a smart and tenacious dog I just haven't got her on the birds mostly do to my health problems and her extreme car sickness she went through year 1.

Bb

Sounds like a good start.

We went out today. Lots of other hunters nearby and several were getting shots. She stayed right with me. She looked a little nervous and stayed in too close right under my feet but never ran off even with shooting nearby.

At the end her and my boy were in the truck and I got out to quickly check a little patch. A rooster got up way out there but I was loaded with a heavy reload of Longshot and 1.5 ounces of #5 so I gave it a huge lead and dropped it. My dog wouldn't go look for it so I went and got a nearby friend and his springers came and found it. It was still alive so I took it to my dog and she showed no interest in it. I set it down and it took off running and she didn't even chase. We let the springers go get it and I then rung its neck. My dog showed little interest when dead.

We got home and I hid the bird in the garage. I got some jerky out and told my dog to find the bird. She looked around a bit and then found it and pointed. She got jerky and lots of good feedback. We tried it again later and set the bird on top of the chest freezer. She used her nose and found it. I have a large 4 car garage so I later drug it along the ground to a whole different part of the garage. She went in and looked on the freezer where it was and then came back to me. I sent her back out and she sniffed around until she crossed the drag trail. As soon as she crossed it she picked up the scent and followed it all the way to the bird. More jerky and lots of good girls.

I hope I can get her as interested in birds as she is jerky. The wife and kids have her domesticated from walking her but not letting her chase the neighbors cats and stuff. My wife does let her range out ahead a ways and explore around but she doesn't seem to go full killer on birdy. I'm taking her with some other dogs that are birds hoping she'll pick it up. She's such a house dog she just likes laying around on pillows and sitting in the hot tub. She wants to do whatever the kids do from jumping on the trampoline to riding on the 4 wheeler. She gets pissed if she doesn't get her turn or I don't let her in the hot tub. She'll steal my towel and run it clear out the back yard and drop it in the dirt. She's smart but she thinks she's human not a bird dog.

Bb

maybe she's right.......

The breeder we bought her from wouldn't sell her unless we agreed to let her in the house and make her part of the family. He said griffons don't do well locked outside in kennels and that they need to be in the house and have lots of interaction. She sleeps inside in her crate and house trained very easily early. She has a bell she rings with her paw when she wants to go out. I'm afraid she's too spoiled.

The kids have spent all evening hiding pheasants in the garage and then having her find them. She's found them all pretty quickly even up on shelves and hidden under things. Her nose works but she'll just find them and point them she won't pick them up. She'll put her nose to the ground if you drag the birds to the new spot and uses her nose up in the wind if you carry the birds to the hiding spot.

I'm not much for pheasant legs so I boned them out for her. She wasn't interested in it raw so I fried them up quickly and now she likes them. I'm hoping she connects the dots where the meat comes from. I'm ashamed that I've raised a city dog that thinks meat comes in plastic from Costco. I think her getting in trouble for chasing the neighbors cats has her a bit shy too.

Bb

Hope you're able to get her over the hump but I wouldn't let her even be near a 22lr until she's absolutely bird crazy. See if you can find someone with homing pigeons that will just let you release birds over and over for her to smell and chase. If possible, I'd start that in your yard where she's already comfortable. The pointing will come too but that bird-crazy prey drive is key at this point IMO. When she's bird-crazy, show her a pellet gun and release some birds. If she's still bouncing off the walls to get to the birds, I'd shoot some with the pellet rifle and let her get them. If she shows any hesitation at any point, go back to just birds.

I disagree with you saying she's too spoiled. My dog lives inside, sleeps on the couch, gets lots of toys and treats, pretty much goes everywhere with me and she is bat$hit crazy for birds and hunting. When she sees the gun come out she goes nuts with excitement. Some dogs just don't have a strong natural drive for birds, your's may be one of them. You might be able to get her on track but I would suggest you find a good trainer and get some professional help. Since you're in Idaho, I'd suggest you call Bob Farris at Cedarwood Gundogs and have a chat. If he isn't able to help you, he could likely point you to someone that can.

Pups go through stages of development when they're more likely to have a fear of something ingrained in them. If you give them a shock it can make them shy of whatever it was. It can happen to any pup. This is why I pretty much let a pup be a pup the first nine months. I make sure there is no gunfire near the pup the first nine months.

If yours was older than that at the time, and it sounds like it was, then you've just got a cull through no fault of your own. They don't all work out. To make a breed culling must be done and continued as necessary. Considering what breeders charge for bird pups, they ought to provide another. That's not how it works, usually, which is why 99% of bird breed pups are grossly overpriced and there are plenty of people with useless furbabies at home.

Now, practically speaking, nobody ever culls them anymore. That's how you got a dog that was not genetically predisposed to love the report of a shotgun. The least you can do is cull the reproductive system. That leaves you trying force the dog it to do a job it doesn't want to do. There are lots of methods and they rarely work. What it comes down to is whether the dog wants the bird enough to tolerate the gunfire. If you can get it addicted to having feathers in its mouth it may tolerate the painful scary noise.

Good luck and please don't let a cull reproduce. And don't be shy letting people know where the cull came from if they won't make it right.

This.

Fear is a buried emotion for the obsessed. Get her obsessed with birds and then start firing a blank pistol every time she gets into birds. Gunfire means birds and your dog should love birds.

Your story reminds me of the first Drent I imported. Here I was with my high dollar imported dog, and sent her off to a local trainer. Good man that he is, he worked with her, to the point of putting her IN the quail pen with the birds, just to light the fire: bupkiss. Tim finally admitted defeat and asked me to come pick her up. I was crestfallen.

So I went hunting, and she came along for the walk. She was two and a half when we went up into Kelly Canyon and I came across a treed ruffed grouse. With a little bit of luck, the shot brained the bird and it did the flopping around on the ground thing for about a minute. THAT was IT. The switch flipped, at that moment. Birds were the thing.

Three years later, I hunted 73 days that year, including a trip to North Dakota, and we did not lose a single bird that hit the ground. One tracking job in ND was nearly a two mile track. She dug one rooster out of a hole in the ground. She was an absolute bird recovery machine. Not much on retrieving, but she’d show you where the bird was......

All that to say: what you see now could very well change. Dogs respond to social cues, and they mature at different rates. Don’t count her out just because she’s not ready this season. Talk to people with experience hunting the breed, and ask about what to expect at what age. Good luck.

Thinking about it some more, this is probably the best bet......

Have a guy stand 200 feet away with a shotgun…

Take a dummy with a pheasant wing, or better yet a dead quail or pheasant and throw it up in the air… have the guy with the shotgun shoot as the bird reaches it’s highest point. This associates a bird dying with a shotgun blast but WAY, WAY far away…

Do this 3-5 times, and then move up 20 or so feet… do it 3 more times…. And move UP .. BUT watch the dog to see if it bothers them or not.

Move up and repeat
Move up and repeat…. And so on

By the time you are next to the guy you will have shot 20 or so rounds…. Every time the dog seems hesitant slow down, and maybe even back up.

Your job is to get them to associate the blast with a falling bird….

This method if from John Han’s “perfect start” clinic…. And it really works well.

That's an excellent training series and I would include some time beforehand just getting the dog bird crazy without a gun but this dog is well down the road from a perfect start. This is serious damage control at this point.

Lots of birds, no gunfire. Birds flying, birds flapping, birds running.
Until the dog is totally nuts for birds, no gunfire. Then only when it is chasing a flapping runner. It might not happen.
Good luck, I have only seen one gunshy dog recover, and it was never the bird dog my buddy hoped to have.

Join your local navhda chapter, get a proven bloodline, never have this problem again.

THIS ^^^^^^^^^. Birds, Birds Birds.... no shooting until it's hunting season and only when he has a snoot full of bird.

I agree and would add that bored dogs (and I only speak from Labrador experience) can also tend to nest away from load reports/fireworks, etc.

The process we are used to from our first breeder years ago was nothing more than a cap gun 50 yards away. Half a dozen shots in a training field, put the dog up and take him home. Repeat a couple days later. Repeat and then a bit closer and closer. Then the big cap gun, back at the distance, then closer - takes half a dozen weeks. Then the starter pistol.

Get them used to it and being in the field field field. Birds are not required but if you can get a permit for training birds off season (we can - but of course have to kill first) that's really really good too. I have to check the rules as we are going to start training our two new Labs - permit was inexpensive and buy one or two aviary ducks, wring the neck and train with them after the shot(s).

Then once the dogs don't really care 20 feet away from a starter pistol keep them around low base trap. The key is to let the dogs have fun and anticipate having fun - they will quickly associate and acclimate to the sound of shot.

All that said, I have seen dogs ruined by noob [bleep] with high powered rifles. There is such a thing as an event. Don't do that. Don't ever be around that.

For those getting pups, take em to the gun range early and often. Move em in on the guns slowly, if they need that.

Here's my yella dog taking in some 5 stand at age 11 weeks or so. He didn't care. Would sit right next to the shotgun and watch the clays.

He's as good a retriever as you'd ever want. He runs to gun fire, not away.

yep. lots of birds get the prey drive built up. let your dog kill the birds

Keep guns away from dog for at least 3 months. I start gun training with a pellet gun at least 50 feet away and use food rewards.

Then combine gun training with live birds if dog is ready. slowly work up with 22 blanks or shotgun training rounds at a distance from dog. go slow.

This is the obvious answer. You're spending lots of time and dollars on a 20 month old dog that should be a bird machine by now. Be prepared for the unpleasant answer that the pro may give. Also, realize that you may need to replace the dog. Having another dog to hunt is not a bad plan anyway, and neither is finding a new home for one that doesn't meet your needs.

I'm with TimberRunner, I take my pups to the sporting clay range, and tie them to a bench, back about 25 yrds, the ones that are scared will hide under the bench, the first few times i take them, the ones that aren't sit and watch,people can't pass a puppy and not pet them, don't take the timid ones long to figure out the gun fire won't hurt them, and the more they wag their tail the more attention they get..

Another good place to start pups is a dove hunt with about 10 shooters and other dogs, when pups see birds falling and other dogs getting to go get them it really fires up their desire to fetch birds, i let pups as young as 10-12 weeks go get a bird that's flopping around on the ground, the pup will always bring the bird back to me, i'm their safe place and i praise the hell out of them.

There is no perfect way to train a dog, the dog will show what he needs corrected, it's up to you to be smart enough to know how to correct problems without causing more problems. Rio7

I am convinced that gun shyness is a manifestation of a soft personality. All the pan clagging and skeet range trips do is identify the problem earlier. Listen to WMR and put the money towards another dog. Some sage advice from my bird dog mentor: "Soft heart soft head and A bird dog can be a pet but a pet can't be a bird dog". I also asked him why he liked his vet His answer "Because he is quick with the needle". All sounds callous but after spending way too much money financing the University of Minnesota vet school training under the guise of their clinic. The old guy was right on all three counts.

As a pup it starts in the kitchen while they are eating. Banging pans and ignoring them while they are eating. Bang them together, drop them unexpectedly. Beat on them in the next room. Clap you hands unexpectedly. Make all kinds of noise and act like it is perfectly normal.

When they show a don’t care demeanor, introduce the gun from a distance, while having their mind on something else. Dead Bird they are playing with is a good diversion if they react at all you don’t.

birds and prey drive development then guns in first years. Lots of birds.. Clapping, Banging pans, boards at a distance when your dog is super hungry and eating is ok.

Prey drive, socialization, exposing to different environments, throw in your vehicle every chance you can when young is important too. But as mentioned some dogs just don't have it. That's picking good breeder is important. The better breeders will let return dog if it s not working out at least in the breeders I have dealt with.

Anyone that would put a dog down because he either didn't have strong enough genetics to deal with gunfire, or more likely, that got screwed up by a lazy training regimen is a POS in my book. At the very least, get them fixed and find them a good home. Putting them down just because they're gun-shy would be the canine version of aborting a baby after it was born just because it had a birth defect.

Guns equal fun you have to associate guns with a fun activity don't ever force them

Nebraska: Never intended to suggest that a gun shy dog should be euthanized. My intention was to illustrate that the older generation of dog men took a much more hard nosed approach to their dogs but did not care for them any less. To further clarify I think gun shy dogs have a very poor chance of being trained to an acceptable level because the gun shyness is just one manifestation of other unacceptable traits. In my opinion your time and money are better spent on a dog that does not exhibit any suggestion of gun shyness.

I have had coon hounds, beagles and bird dogs for 45 years now. I have never seen one yet that was "cured" or "got over it". You are wasting your time with this dog. I know you don't want to hear that, but in about 6 months, if you are honest, you will admit it to yourself that this dog was a waste of time. As already posted, these types of dogs have a soft personality. It was born shy and it will always be shy. It just takes the right event to bring it to the surface.
What you choose to do with the dog is your decision, but whatever you choose you will learn it the hard way. When you finally do get over it {you, not the dog} you need to think about if you want to try again and if you decide to have another go at it then you need to harden yourself to the fact that not all dogs make it and life is too short to waste time piddling around with a half dog. Demand perfection or you will never have it. The surest way to know if a man is a liar....he will claim to have cured a gun shy dog. He will probably even show you one that is not gun shy and say, "see". That just means he lied twice!!!!!!!

Always amazed at the number of posters here that have seen it all.

I could mention a friends English Pointer, but I would be lying. 😂

And that boy is far from a soft Bird finder. Oops, another lie. 🤞

Must be fake news....He most likely will let you call him a lier once, the second time that big boy is coming...FYI

Gotcha bobmn. Breeding a good bloodline is definitely serious business.....

I had a female black lab that was thunder shy which extrapolated to gun shy. She never got over the thunder shy but was easily cured of gun shy.