Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Express Rifles and Big Bores Only .450 Marlin

My general carry rifle, for ranch duties etc.
A little load development with Hornady 325 gr ftx bullets. These bullets worked well on paper in my 45/70 and now in the .450.
.I haven't chrono'd yet but should be in the 2100 fps range and is consistant on paper.
Will see if I can tip over a bull elk on my home place with it this year, it will be interesting to see the bullets performance. Bulls have got to be a minimum 6 points on one side. So far have seen numerous 5's 4's and squealers show up
Anyone have experience with the gummy tipped, ftx's on a elk sized animals? I expect the bullet to fracture but should be enough residual weight to create a decent wound channel.
Just wondering who has tried this

After varmint hunting on a cattle ranch in Montana and seeing evidence of animals that could ruin a guy’s day if you surprised one up close (bear/wolf/lion), I built a light 458 American using a Ruger 77 MII action and a Ruger no.3 45/70 takeoff barrel. I wish I had kept it. Perfect rifle for the truck/four wheeler/ hiking.
I truly am surprised bolt rifles in either 2” 458 cartridge weren’t in demand by hunters!

Factory loaded by Hornady, from AMMO & BALLISTICS 6 (sixth edition) by Bob Forker:

.450 Marlin
Hornady 325-grain FTX
18.5" barrel, 1:20" twist >>> 2225 fps MV

.45-70 Government
Hornady 325-grain FTX
24" barrel, 1:20" twis.t >>> 2000 fps MV

Hornady factory loads must stick to SAAMI restrictions.

.45-70 Gov't. MAP is 28,000 PSI
and there is NO THROAT other than the bevel down to rifling at case-mouth end of chamber.

.450 Marlin MAP is 43,500 PSI
and there is a leade-only throat of 2*30'00" starting at 0.465" diameter in the bevel-down at case-mouth end of chamber.
That makes for some extra slug jump for the .450 Marlin, hence effective case capacity increase and pressure reduction.

By golly ! The .450 Marlin is a worthwhile improvement over the .45-70 Gov't. even for a handloader with a Ruger No. 1.
It is like a Mini-Me to the .458 Winchester Magnum.
Almost a .458 American with .458 WinMag Throat, but not quite.

I believe this is the Hornady .45-70 Government factory loaded "Leverevolution" ammo
with 325-gr FTX bullet, still mighty impressive:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=smsfhJ8eCg4

Good find.

Interesting that I have seen the 45-70 Hornady 325 grain ammo rated at 2100+ fps and shot it in my 1886 .45-90. It seemed brisk shooting off the bench rest.

Does anyone know the powder type used by Hornady in those 45-70 loads?

I ask because on two occasions, I have sensed that the recoil was greater than it should be for that weight bullet at that velocity in a 9.5 pound rifle.

1. When my .45-90 was new, I shot several brands of commercial 45-70 and 45-90 ammo over a chrony and documented the results.
2.Recently, I shot the same 45-70 325 ammo in my .45-70 double rifle and the recoil seemed brisk! Not fun off hand.

This ammo was from the same box and it just seems too brisk - a jolt. Unpleasant to shoot from a 9.5 pound rifle? Because of this and mediocre accuracy in two rifles, I do not hunt with that ammo.

Having looked at the pressure curves of some brands of powder, I became suspicious that the factory 325 loads use a VERY fast burning powder with a high initial pressure peak.

Any ideas? Comments? Thoughts?

PS I just checked my two boxes of Hornady 45-70 325 grain ammo and one has no velocity data and the other says 2000 fps. My bad.

Well, the Hornady reloading manual 11th Ed. shows loads for the 325-gr FTX

for a Marlin 1895 .45-70 Gov't. with 22" barrel, 1:20" twist:
325-gr FTX >>> 2150 fps
done with 4 different powders
maximum charges:
IMR-4198: 47.9 gr.
VVN-120: 49.1 gr.
Accurate 1680: 51.4 gr.
RL-7: 51.5 gr.

for a Marlin 1895 .450 Marlin with 18.5" barrel, 1:20" twist:
325-gr FTX >>> 2100 fps
reached with only one powder
maximum charge:
Accurate 1680: 47.7 gr.

That is interesting.
They used less powder in the .450 Marlin than they did in the .45-70 G'ovt. !
Is the .450 Marlin made so much heavier in the head that case capacity is significantly less than that of .45-70 Gov't. ?
Something to check on for me having never handloaded for the .450 Marlin.
Yet advertised Hornady factory loads are 225 fps faster for the .450 Marlin with shorter barrel (18.5" vs. 24" !) and same bullet,
325-gr FTX.

Thanks, but no thanks on their factory loads. If I want to shoot the 325 bullet, I will load my own. My favorite factory 45-70 bullet is still the Winchester Nosler PP. It has been effective for me on
lots of game from Pronghorn to Leopard and just works for me in my 1886 45-90. Handloads were 2200 for the leopard - one shot at 20 yards pinned the cat to the sand.


WRT the barrel length mentioned above-- it would be interesting to know if a shorter .45-70 barrel would increase velocity with same powder charge? Rifling slowing bullet down? I am not familiar with Accurate 1680,
but will be aware for any meaningful info on it.

My Beretta DR in 45-70 has come to life with heavier bullets at 50 yards and shoots 350 grain NF SS and 400 grain Remington very well ( holes in target paper appear to have been shot at point blank range!) . Off to range tomorrow to shoot 100 yards groups and if the pattern holds, time to go hog hunting.

Some good fundamentals here:

https://www.ballisticstudies.com/Knowledgebase/.450+Marlin.html

... says the Hornady .450 Marlin brass is 7 grains of water smaller in case capacity than Winchester .45-70 Gov't. brass.
That explains the Hornady handload data,
but not the factory load advertising, i.e., barrel lengths and pressure levels make for some 'splaining/verification needed before trusting.


"Various authorities have criticized the .450 Marlin as having less power than .45-70 full capacity hand loads by 300fps and up to 500fps. In truth, these differences come about due to variations in rifle barrel length and porting rather than true case capacity. Case capacity of Hornady .450 brass is around 7 grains water less than Winchester .45-70 brass, a difference of 9%. While 9% more powder capacity should translate into 200fps higher velocity in favor of the .45-70, internal ballistics does not correlate in this way. In reality, when used in rifles of equal barrel length and loaded to identical pressures, the .450 lags behind the .45-70 by, on average, 100fps. Major differences only occur when comparing data collected from full 22 to 24” barreled M1895 or Ruger No1 .45-70 rifles with the newer .450 M1895 Guide gun.
As an example, the .450 Guide gun is capable of pushing a 350 grain bullet at 2000fps as opposed to 2300fps in the Ruger No1 .45-70 or 2200fps in the Marlin M1895 with 24” barrel."

I have to say though, that 45/70 brass is very light duty and .450 Marlin brass is not. I own a Marlin guide gun( a remlin) and it is a clunky thing and could see a rifle failure if loads were to hot.
The BLR/ .450 is a real step up, even maximum loads are very easily doable and I seldom see any sign of pressure
My 325 gr ftx handloads are very good on paper, producing 2100 fps of muzzle velocity and I could go up.( no pressure signs)
I was looking for ftx's performance on elk and moose

I haven’t used the 325gr FTX bullets but those who have on our large deer (Sambar) say the bullets are a little soft.

You mention having a BLR in 450M. The magazines in those rifles have a block to limit OAL. By using a mag designed for WSM cartridges you can load to 2.8”. As noted earlier, the 450M has generous throating, so you would be able take advantage of the additional mag length using a mag designed for WSM cartridges.

I found the whole idea of 450 Marlin annoying first for the reasons posted. It offer no real advantage over the 4/70 with hand loads. And darn little with factory ammo.

I dont think anyone mentioned the unique rim on the Marlin means that 300 mag or 458 mag brass cannot be cut down for the Marlin. I know why. but it still a big strike using a unique case. Introducing un needed cartridges is an industry tradition that has been for over 100 years and I am sure will continue.

Four bore, thanks for your input.
I was aware of the unique cartridge case dimensions, luckily I picked up 200 .
After handloading and shooting for the 45/70 the one thing I did not like was the very light duty brass...I could could dent / bend these cases too easily. I decided not to load these to hot.
The .450 is different, brass is sturdy and I find it more useful. It is better, imo, in hunting conditions.
Single feeding has taught me the magazine is limiting but the throat is longer and the bullet doesn't need to be crimped.
The Hornady 325 gr ftx bullet shoots well from both the 45/70 and the .450. The bullets recovered from behind the target rack are entact for the most part.
How has it worked on Game animals in your area?
I would like to any personal experience or preference.

Interesting. There's no guarantee that it's the same lot to lot, but I have seen a pull that looked like it had LeverEvolution in it. That would be a pretty good powder fit, so it's a definitely possibility. GRT thinks it's the top velocity powder for the .45-70 with the 325 FTX.

I have boxes from one lot of the factory load, and have shot them in two .45-90s. In my 1886 I got excellent accuracy and 3 holes touching at 100y (but also super lucky to do that with irons). My 1885, I felt like I got kicked in the teeth and only shot one shot. Not sure if the rifle was too light, or I experienced something like you did.

I do not much like or trust LeverEvolution if that's what's in them.

I have never shot the 325 FTX at game, but I have heard people claim that it sheds its jacket and is deer-only and that the Hornady 250 mono-metal is actually better for elk. I do not know though.

If I were going to pick a bullet to load, the 405 Woodleigh bonded would inspire more confidence personally.

I killed a huge Montana Shiras bull with the 325 grain Hornady load from my .450 Marlin. Broadside shot was about 75 yards.
I never recovered the bullet but it dropped the bull without issue.

Anyone here that wouldn’t think a 450 can kill an elk ?

I have a 450M, wouldn’t sell it for the world.

Johnny, I don't think there is any doubt the .450 will work on elk....or moose.
My question is about the unusual ftx bullet, I find it accurate, easy to handload for but even the Hornady manual suggests it might not be the best choice on larger game. I find this odd.
T .Inman had no issues on a Shiras bull, this is good info.
It is the bullet that shoots best from my rifle.
I have used the Barnes Original and Speer 350's and hardcast 350's
None shoot as well on paper as the ftx.

lLAMA bOB,
My DR gives the same kind of accuracy with Remington 405 grain ammo at 1700 fps MV; actually first two shots through same hole and third shot cutting the edge of first hole. So, I am going with that.
My son just shot the right barrel at 100 yards and has the third shot exactly where I asked him to put it; centered left and right and one inch high. I will hand load some just like that, shoot some R&L and go hunting.


WRT the Hornady 325s, too much trouble for me when I have other better choices.
After the first test box, I never bought another. But my daughter gave me a box several years ago.
I WAS PLANNING TO BURN THEM UP IN MY 10 POUND Beretta DOUBLE RIFLE, BUT THEY DO NOTSHOOT WELL IN THAT RIFLE.

Maybe I can use for plinking in my .45-90 AND toss the short brass.



PS Llama Bob , what or who is GRT ?
"If I were going to pick a bullet to load, the 405 Woodleigh bonded would inspire more confidence personally." --- me too.