Home Forums Reloading Big Game Rifles Swift Scirocco for elk?

And if that bull of a lifetime ends up in your lap?

I still think there are many better options.

Mule Deer, what are your thoughts on the Accubond vs. the Scirocco? Same animal?

Stalker--

Nosler designed the AB to act like a Partition, not open wide like the the Scirocco, and this has been confirmed by my own tests, shooting .30-caliber 200 AccuBonds and Partitions side-by-side into the same test media. From what I've seen of the AccuBond, I would happily sub it for the equivalent Partition.

The AccuBond is incredibly accurate as well, at least as accurate as the Scirocco and perhaps even more so. Haven't shot them enough to be able to make a firm statement there, but the Accubonds check out even better on the Juenke bullet comparator. Plus, their jackets are gilding metal, not copper like the Scirocco's. Gilding metal doesn't foul as much, which helps accuracy in some rifles.

Both are fine bullets, but I tend to agree with Swift's own assessment of the Scirocco as a fine antelope/deer/caribou bullet, while the AccuBond is indeed a BIG game bullet.

mule deer,

I agree on the Accubond accuracy. So far me and my hunting buddy have put about 50 through our two 7 RUMS (160s). Velocity has been hovering around 3300 and the accuracy, more importantly, consistant accuracy, has been the norm.

Ran a test this past weekend, using the same charge of 93.0 Retumbo, F215M, new REM cases, and topped that off with the Nosler 7MM, 160 partition and accubonds. Both loads shot right at 3300 and almost the same point of impact, within .75 inches group center to group center. My 700 SUCKS 7RUM loves 160's and shot them both around .6 - .7. Also used the same seating die setting for both, which ends up having the accubond just a smidge longer, but it still fits nice in my magazine.

I like what you have written about the Nosler guys designing the accubonds to penetrate as well as the partition. Nice.

BTW, I am switching my elk load in my 300 RUM to the 200 partition from the 180 Scir. Now that I have my 7 RUM tuned up with the 160 accubonds, it is going to be my long range deer, sheep, caribou etc... gun. Plus, the hardest that I have ever seen an animal get hit was by a 200 Partition. The mule deer was hit head on in the chest and was literally lifted off of his feet.

Plus, I like a nice exit hole !!!! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Tony.

As to the original question posed on this thread, "on how they would really stand up to elk and other tough game." To that question I say the 180 gr. Scirocco would stand up well. As to MD's assertion the 180 partition is the better elk bullet, I am not convinced. I have several friends who shoot .300's. I personally loaded the ammo one of them used to take two elk so far, using 180 gr. partitions no less. See I don't hate them. This was before the Scirocco was born <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> . He killed both with neck shots. One of my mulies I busted low in the neck (180 gr. Scirocco). In each case, broken neck and complete penetration. Another friend shot a cow at about 100 with the 180 Part. (300 Weatherby). On impact there was no reaction, but eventually she dropped. Bullet was found on the far side under the skin. If you want an (or) the all around elk bullet then I would completely agree with you on the 200 gr. Part. (See I don't hate them.) They were very accurate in my rifle but not quite as good as the Scirocco and the Scirocco has a better B.C. And if you're really worried about the bull of a lifetime standing at a bad angle, then I think you need the X or Failsafe or A-frame or TBBC or...........Good luck, Troy

You'v got a PM.
Jeff

HiC,

One has to be careful when judging a bullet by the bullets initial "affect" on the animal. What you are really seeing is the animals reaction to the shot.......not the bullets affect on the animal. I've seen all kinds of things happen when an animal is shot from immediate collapse to a near cartwheel. I attribute all of this to the animals reaction be it voluntary or involuntary. Many factors come into play here including the emotional state of the animal and what part of the nervous system is hit (if any).

If you doubt this, try a test. Wait till you get a wild reaction from a shot where it appears the animal was hit with the "hammer of Thor" and you've found the ultimate cartridge/bullet combo. Find the animal and verify it's dead. Now back off and shoot it again with the same gun/cartridge/bullet combo. I'll bet the animal barely moves. This is why I say you are seeing the animals reaction to the shot rather than the bullets affect on the animal. There may be a spectacular reaction to both the best and worst bullets.......or you may see no reaction to either. I would shy away from using the animals initial response as the sole indicator of the bullets affect.

Food for thought.

HogWild

I'm sure you could strap a plow to the front of a Hyundai at use it to move snow too.

Troy--

Thanks for the additional info. Good hunting!

MD

Hog Wild- I agree, didn't mean to imply an animals initial reaction is the end all be all to bullet performance.

Muley Stalker- Now I gotta take the plow off my Hyundai! Well I guess I have a Buick I could put it on.......

MD-I may not put enough smiley's in my posts, but for the record I think your good [bleep].

One thing to add as food for thought only. I used to run into Larry Barnett (Superior Ammo) quite often at the range here in Spearfish. He's headquartered in Sturgis but I don't think their range is up yet. I started using the 180 gr. Scirocco early in their production run. I bought them from Larry as he was the only one who seemed to have them. We were both confident in this new bullet and his opinion was based in part by his wife's elk load. Before the 7mm 150 gr. Scirocco became a production item, the owner of Swift, whose name escapes me, sent Larry a limited # of prototype examples. After very limited load development, he and his wife went elk hunting with her 7mm Dakota. If I remember correctly she shot a mature cow at approximately 200 yards. I believe the cow was quartering towards her. The bullet went through the shoulder, through the lungs and out the off side busting a few ribs to boot. Larry said that elk dropped poste haste. From further discussions with Larry it sounds like the prototype his wife used that day is not the same bullet in current production. They are now "softer". Consequently I have not heard many glowing reports of that bullet used on game larger than deer. Larry gets a lot of reports from his clients on the loads he builds for them. I have no reason to doubt his info or opinions. I don't know if the .30 cal versions have "evolved" since I purchased my first lot. Good luck, Troy

Troy,

Frankly, I was impressed by the 180 Scir's performance on my bull. I would not hesitate to use it again on a elk hunt. The thing that sucks (no not the rifle !), is that my 300 Rum shoots both the 200 NP and 180 Scir very well, but unfortunately, their point of impact is about 3 inches apart. I have to sight in for one or the other. I will probably sight my 300 Rum in for my 200 NP load as I have my 7 Rum dialed in with the 160 Accubond.

BTW, Swift will still get their fair share of my business as I shoot the 7mm 150's out of both my 7 Rem and 7 STW and they shoot great. As a matter of fact, my two most accurate loads are both with Swift Scirocco's :7mm 150 Scir out of my custom 7 Rem mag, that is more accurate than I can hold and the 180 Scir out of my 300 Rum. I will be toting my STW/150 Scir load during my hunt at White Oak in Jan.

Hope to give a good report then !!! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Bottom line, IMO, either companies bullets are great and you can't go wrong using either the 180 Scir or the 200 NP on elk.

Tony.

I'll be very interested to hear about your results in all your cartridges. I should also clarify that I don't know for a fact that the 7mm versions changed from prototype to production. But that was the impression I got from my discussions with Larry and that's been a while, unfortunately.

Sadly, I did not draw an any elk tag for the hills, again. There is still a chance I could get a leftover cow tag, time will tell. Should be able draw a few deer tags though so the Scirocco's will still have work <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> . Good luck, Troy

Troy,

I have not taken any game with the 150 Scir, but my buddy has, a couple of nice size bucks. Blasted right through them and did the job.

If the 7mm 150's perform for me like the 180 did, I will be happy.

Tony.

Read through the Swift reloading manual. You can't hardly find mention in the entire book of the Scirocco without "long range" being in the same sentence. I sorta take that to mean it was designed for long range shooting and efficency as opposed to brute strength and penetration.

I called Swift on the subject and they relayed that it would be ok for elk at longer shots....but the A-frame would be a much better choice for any distance.

Exactly, that is what we have been saying all along.

Most of the sucess stories people share with us seem to be at distances of 200 yards or more, where velocity has slowed some. Likewise, most of the "bullet failures," those showing over-expansion or a parachute type braking action leading to what some, including myself, would be considered too little penetration, have come at closer ranges with impact velocities over 3000 fps.

If you can garantee any shot you get will be at over 200 yards, fine. In the meantime, I feel there are better choices that can be made when hunting game as potentially tough as elk when less than perfect and/or close range, high velocity shots are presented.

I simply don't understand why someone would use a marginal bullet for elk when there are so many better choices available.

POP,I was also told by Swift(rather heatedly on point 2 ) that-1" the Scirocco line was developed to give hunters the option of using a faster expanding bullet with a higher BC than the A- frame. But by all means if you'r looking for more frontal dia. and more penetration go with the A-Frame". 2 "The Scirocco has ALWAYS been recommended for large game,including deer size and UP" and they have 100s if not 1000s of testimonials and photos that prove the point. 3 That "the 30 cal 180 gr version was developed SPECIFICALLY with elk in mind"
This was from the owner and CEO,Bill Hober,I'll take his word for it until I,or someone else can PROVE otherwise.
Jeff

Scott, I believe you. I talked to someone there who could not find any of the technical staff around. That is what she told me.

JScottRupp,

Re point #3, that the 30 cal 180-grainer was developed specifically for elk. These are recovered 180 grain, 30 cal Sciroccos. These were fired out of a 300 Wby at 3145 muzzle velocity.

;


I shot a +/- 250# whitetail (live weight) as it ran across in front of me at about 40 yards. I hit it a bit too far back (nice way of saying gut shot) and it ran about 30 yards before it slowed to a stop. I shot it again at a quartering away angle. The bullet entered just behind the ribcage and stopped against the hide on the far side. Impact velocity about 3060 fps. At first glance it looks like a textbook failure from a thin-jacketed frangible bullet (not wanting to drop a name here) with the core missing, jacket split back to the base. However, the bonding retained most of the core, although it split along with the jacket. It weighed 142 grains.

The next day a friend shot another buck with my rifle at about 275 yards, impact velocity about 2600. That bullet was textbook, looking like it came out of the Swift company brochure. It is, however, very rounded, unlike the sharp corners of an "X" bullet. Retained weight was in the order of 165 grains.

The one on the left is the 40 yard shot impact, the one on the right 275 yards.

AN ELK BULLET?? I think not. A whitetail buck at 40 yards, 300 wby with a 180 grain bullet, broadside shot with no bone in the way, and it doesn't exit? At magnum velocities it expands too much for adequate penetration, at least I suspect it will on anything larger than deer. On deer I believe this is a good bullet (that is after all what Swift markets it as) providing muzzle velocities are kept to 2900 or less. I also firmly believe that the Hornady flat base SP performs just as well, at 1/4 the price. Just as accurate, more so in my experience.

I also shot a BC moose and a nice black bear with the same load, and saw nothing to justify this bullet over a 180 Hornady FB. My 2 cents.

I am new to this forum, but I could not help but respond to this topic. I worked up a load in my .300 Win Mag last year using the 180 grain version of the Scirocco thinking I had found the holy grail of bullets (high B.C., tough construction, and accurate). I took a cow elk out with one at range finder distance of ~ 380 yards. The bullet hit her in the neck, shattering the spine. It continued back through the muscle on the neck, into the the shoulder (breaking two ribs on the way, without touching them directly) and came to a rest at the back side of the shoulder, just under the hide. I thought this would be a perfectly mushroomed example of what the holy grail elk bullet would do. What I found surprised and dissappointed me <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />. The bullet looked like you had taken wire dikes and snipped the black tip off. You can see all the rifling marks from stem to stern and the retained weight was 174 out of 180 grains.

Now you might say that velocity was not sufficient to provide penetration. The load was a chronographed 3200 fps out of my 26" tube.

Much has been said about over expansion with this bullet. I for one was not pleased with the under expansion with my experience. Granted, one bullet is not a great statistical test, but for my confidence I have given the rest of my bullets away and have started work-up with the new 200 grain Accubond.

Just my experience and .02