Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters Am I overthinking bullet construction?

I have been reading a lot of older threads here on the campfire and basically, what seems to come quite a bit is professional hunters and outfitters recommending cup and core bullets for deer size game and premium bullets like the partition, accubonds and ttsx for elk size game. They are talking about the deep penetrating bullets for elk not working as well on deer sized game. Bring something a little more fragile to hunt light skinned, smaller bodied animals like deer. I was thinking of loading some light for caliber TTSX bullets for mule deer and open prairie hunting here in Wyoming, but would I be better with ballistic tips or just Hornady interlocks, Sierra Gamemaster etc. What is the general thinking on this topic with modern bullets?

I like two holes. C&C sometimes haven’t given me that. They also may cause more meat damage, even if you miss the shoulder, because of fragments or maybe “cavitation”. Bullets that stay together are better for angled shots.

All this is in general terms. Some C&C are pretty stout, and funny stuff happens with all of them. I like Partitions because they worked well on the deer I shot with them, but so have a couple of BTs. Been trying to kill some with bonded and monos, but the past few years I’ve done all my deer-killing with razor-sharp steel. I did kill a couple of foxes with 6mm LRXs, and can tell you for certain that they expanded pretty well!

The TTSX, in every variation I've seen, has worked very well on WT and MD. While I use other bullets when shots get long (over about 300-400 meters), I long ago came to appreciate the lack of lead fragments in my meat when using monos.

I also have tended to use more monolithic, non-lead bullets over the past dozen years or so. These have not just been TTSXs but Cutting Edge Raptors, Hornady GMXs and Nosler E-Tips. Plastic tips pretty much guarantee expansion, something that didn't always happen with TSXs, and aside from the lack of lead fragments, the monos ruin less meat than cup-and-cores, or even bonded lead-core bullets. Maybe 2-3 years ago I was writing an article about lead-free bullets and, after looking at my hunting notes, discovered that Eileen and I had taken 70% of our big game animals in the previous 3 years with monolithics.

An elk guide I know uses a 300 RUM. He swears by the 180 BT at 3300 fps or so. The BT is, I think, a stout C&C.

Yep, it was upgraded to one of the "heavy jacket" BTs several years ago, primarily because so many hunters wanted to use it on elk.

A local friend of mine used one in his .300 Weatherby to shoot a cow elk that was facing him at around 200 yards. He recovered the bullet from under the hide of the rump.

I've used the 180BT on several elk out of my 300 RUM. Penetrates very well and kill very abruptly. I can't say the same about the monos I've used out of the same gun.

Yes, you are overthinking it.

You have a good grasp on how different bullets perform. Go with what you prefer.

I am a big fan of mono's. Being a long time bowhunter, I like two holes.

Being a long time meat hunter. I like less meat loss, and the lack of finding lead fragments when processing.

With all of that being said I have shot 6 deer/antelope/black bear with lead bullets over the last couple of years. 6.5 129gr Interlock, 277 143gr ELD-X, 338 200gr Ballistic silvertip and Accubond.

I did shoot my antelope last weekend with a 55gr GMX out of my 222.

The cup and core bullets generally work well on deer sized game, especially for behind the shoulder shots. You might have a little more meat damage on high velocity short distance shots.

On the other hand, I've used accubonds quite a bit on deer, and they can also do considerable meat damage depending on shot placement. My experience is they always exit on deer size game although they might not on a front to back shot on a larger deer.

The mono metals work well and may do less meat damage. In some cases, the animal might run a little further before dropping.

We have lots of good bullets. That leaves plenty of room for personal preference, which is a good thing.

We (wife and I) have been using Barnes’ since the early ‘90’s. One bullet weight for all game.....from Antelope/Deer up through moose! She 225 TTSX’s, myself...... well, I did drop down to a 250 TTSX several years ago! Can’t wait to get some 270 LRX’s 😉 memtb

I've never understood the two holes thing. Monos often leave such small holes that they leak much less blood than just the entrance of a cup and core.

Cup and core passing thru the boiler room works for me.
I don't eat the ribs or organs.
Don't need a blood trail or a second hole should there not be one.

Two holes generally means more blood on the ground, and more wiped off on vegetation as the critter goes through cover. Where I hunt, a lot of the cover is head-high weeds, with hummocks of grass and other stuff below, some of it red in color. Blood that drips out may fall into places you can’t see, so blood higher up is helpful. Also, an exit will likely spray some blood and hair, providing proof of a hit and maybe evidence of what sort. They don’t always bleed right away, even when hit with a powerful rifle, just as they don’t always drop, even when hit very hard in the right place. Tracking in the woods on leaves is much easier than in tall brushy weeds, where tracks are very hard to see.

A higher hit usually means the body cavity has to fill up more before blood starts leaking out .That is true with one hole or two. I never worry about it. Most ML hits don't exit, I have learned to be more selective of where I shoot and elk or deer.Just because I see one, does not mean I will pull the trigger.

One rule I follow,the faster the bullet,the better construction is needed

Generalisations don't tell us much when it concerns application. I use, and have used, mostly "big bores" over the past three decades for all hunting from wolf to moose. Most of the areas I've hunted don't allow long range shooting, with one exception being the far north of our Province in old clear cuts. There I've used medium bores like .338 magnums, .375 H&H and even a "hot" loaded 350gr TSX from my .458 Win at 2700 fps. Closer to home, that 350gr TSX went through a black bear without expansion with a good hit at 100 yards. That bear ran farther than any bear I've killed with .45-70s using "softer" flat-nose bullets. In fact, the soft-nose 405 gr Remington from my 1895 Marlin dropped a bear on the spot, DRT, at the same location as the one that ran for 70 yards! Impact velocity from the 405 Rem was over 1800 fps, and impact velocity from the 350 TSX was over 2400 fps. I've killed a lot of bears with .458 calibers, but a flat tip heavy bullet at modest velocity is a faster killer than a fast monolithic with a tiny cavity in the nose. I lost one of my best bears ever to the original 200gr X-Bullet at 2800 fps MV and impact over 2500 fps from my .35 Whelen. The bullet never expanded. Yeah, I know.... get 'em with that plastic tip! Actually, I like the 300gr TSX better from my .458 at much higher
velocities than the 350 to insure expansion. And you can get 'em with a BT and plastic tip! Barnes says they will expand on game down to 1400 fps... but the proof is in the pudding. The 300gr TSX/.458 has been successfully used on brown bear! No stress in my .458 Win in a Ruger #1 at +2900 fps MV. But I still prefer heavy at modest velocity in my usual habitats closer to home.

Bob
www.bigbores.ca

I've devolved back to using Hornady Interlocks. Took a really nice oryx last year with a 180 from a 308. This year, I 'm deer hunting with 130s in my 6.8.

Last 10 years, I've mostly used NBTs. I've never had a problem with various NBTs in different cartridges. They usually dropped them on the spot.

Never fired a monmetal bullet other than cast.

But...I read a bunch, and pickup up some ideas.
Mule Deer has touched on these, but not in this thread.

Where you put them, and bullet speed, are very important.

Personally have seen poor bullet performance at too low speeds,
And failure at too high of speeds, with cup and core.

The first resulted in poor killing, and several lost animals.
(I know, lost provides no evidence. But in this instance I lost several
animals. More than the rest of my hunting combined. And im only considering where there were blood trails. Only kept using it untill I became.
convinced it wasn't me)

The second was proven in recovered animals.
One, an elk ground to hamburger, before it died. Wish I had a picture of
The Corelock against the spine, in powdered metal form.
Did no noticeable damage to the bone. 140gr 7 mag wasn't a great choice!

It seems velocity is more important for quick kills with mono's.
With bone contact being another big factor in getting good results.

Another thing is what do you want?
Quick, on the spot kills. Or is a run, and tracking job just fine.
What about meat damage?

Or are you looking to eliminate lead?

Have used partitions on deer.
Even they are a little behind GK/PH or BT's for quick kills in my use.
(Only consider non CNS hits. CNS hits don't mean squat. Any bullet
is great when you scramble the nerves)


Hope this gets a response from MD.
He has more experience, with more bullets than I.
And much better communication skills.

I'm with the 2 hole crowd.

30-06 150 TSX

My vote would be OK for TTSX especially in open country. In my very limited experience with them, you can expect up to 30 yards of movement after the hit, which is acceptable to me for sure.

Although when hunting deer in brushy, thick vegetation, or tall CRP I would prefer something like your Interlock, Hotcor, or BT. they tend to drop with fewer steps. IMHO

I forgot to mention that cup and core penetration/expansion is not usually an either or trade-off on deer. I.ve had a 7mm 145 Speer Hotcor exit from a full body length of penetration on a whitetail. bullet entered front right shoulder and exited left ham.