Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters Steps in Making a Classic Rifle Shoot MORE Accurate

A little like squeezing blood from a stone I suspect, however what steps would one undertake to get the highest degree of accuracy from a classic rifle.

The rifle in question is a 1952 Winchester Model 70 Featherweight in 308, NRA very good condition with the only alterations being a lighter trigger spring and a replaced rear folding sight. Honestly, a 90% rifle which has spent a lot of time in a safe, but has been hunted minimally.

I'm told it shoots around 1 1/4 - 1 1/2" with handloads.

Somebody should write a tutorial

New barrel?, reloading, free float, bed?

Perfect the bedding. Freshen the crown if necessary.

How skilled is the handloader? What type of handloads?

Are you worried about resale value?

Being a classic it stands or falls on its own merits. I don't want to get into bedding, free floating barrels, replacement barrels etc.

As is the barrel, rifling and crown look really to my eyes. The action screws have been properly adjusted. At this point I don't want to remove the stock.

The handloader? He still has a lot to learn but understands the basics and the need for concentricity. Optimum bullet lengths and the finer details allude him

Sounds like it's accurate enough for any big game hunting as is. I wouldn't chase superfluous accuracy.

I have that same rifle. I honestly don't shoot it much. When I did it put three shots in an inch at 100 yards using the factory ammo my Dad had it sighted in for.

I'd check the bedding first because mine needed attention there due to the age of the wood.

Keep in mind when handloading. These rifles direct gas down the left raceway of the receiver with no safety flange at the cocking piece in the event of a fired case rupture. Not a big deal, but something to be aware of.

Good luck and fun fine tuning. They're remarkable rifles.

Load development is always part of the equation, with Brass handling being a part of that if. You really want to improve things.

Going beyond that you have to decide if you are a table top gunsmith (DIY guy), or want to get it to a decent gunsmith.

IF so …

Barrel issues first (I mean slugging and possibly lapping it, crowns, inspection, …. )
Then of course pressure points.

Lugs, trigger, and Firing Group, rear bolt play, and of course bedding.


So ?

Without at least bedding the rifle that may be the best that it is capable of.
With model 70s one of the main causes of inaccuracy though is that the center action screw (the one in front of the trigger guard) is overtightened which cause the action to bow. It should be only tightened to a very light snug, as soon as it hits resistance stop tightening it. The only purpose of that screw is to hold the trigger guard in alignment with the floorplate. If it is tighter than this loosen it up and give a try - I suspect that the groups will tighten up a bit. Otherwise play with loads and seating depths.

drover

I've owned a number of pre-64 M70's, standards, and lightweights. Some were very accurate, others were just OK. Kinda like your rifle. For me, it's fun to try to get MOA accuracy out of them, but the reality is it often doesn't happen. But, so what. The level of accuracy you describe is more than adequate for game animals the 308 was designed for. Sometimes perfection is the enemy of good enough.

Most of the brand name factory loads I've seen will not realize the potential of the rifle. Drover is right on with the center screw. I wouldn't touch anything until trying the rifle with a known ammo, something on the order of Federal Gold Medal Match, with a proven scope with very little parallax. Since you are a campfire member, we can assume that you yourself can easily shoot sub moa groups all day! long, so that's not a factor. Don't fix nuthin' until you are damn sure it's broke. My 5 centavos worth.

Really not a BIG deal. Wear your safety glasses. Never been a problem for me or others I shoot with. Some guys find fault with everything!

I'd just clean the barrel good to remove any possible copper fowling, make sure the screws in the scope mounts and action are properly tightened and then shoot it like it is. It would probably shoot better than I can and I've never met anything I wanted to shoot with a 308 that a 1 1/2 in rifle won't work just fine. Why mess up a classic if you don't have to...

The first thing I would do is clean the snot out of it with Montana Extreme or Shooters Choice and then several applications of Wipeout. Then check all the action and forearm screws using a torque wrench if possible…..”as tight as you can get” won’t necessarily work.
Then work on the load development.

I had a 1953 .308 Fratherweight for a few years until selling it a couple months. It was also in original condition--except the buttstock had been shortened slightly and the aluminum buttplate filed to sort of fit it.

The barrel on those original .308 Featherweights was also "sort of" free-floated, meaning it was floated just enough to clear the forend--but not enough to prevent the barrel from touching the forend when the rifle went bang. Mine would kinda shoot some loads into 1-1/2" or so, sometimes a little small, but sometimes bigger.

This is indeed good enough for most big game hunting, but I decided to see if it would do better, so put two plastic bread-bag shims behind the recoil lug, then tightened the front and rear action screws as usual, and just snugged up the middle screw--as Drover suggested. This "lifted" the barrel just enough to actually float it, and the rifle started grouping 3 shots under 3/4 inch, and in fact would put 5 of its best load in an inch or so.

It also did not alter the original bedding of the rifle. When I eventually decided to sell it, I simply removed the shims.

PS to navlav8r--The pre-'64 Featherweights did not have any forend screws.

In addition to the basic flightlist mentioned above- I have seen some good results reported by using Tubb final finish bullets. Be careful though- overuse / unnecessary excess will erode the throat. Anecdotally improvements reported between 1/4 and 1 moa. Another one I've seen is use of HBN in proper size to coat / saturate a barrel.

Put a couple plastic bread bag clips behind the recoil lug and try again. My 30-06 fwt went from a 2" rifle to a 1 inch rifle with that little trick. Mule Deer idea I believe. If that works a bedding job would be beneficial.

I have had a number of pre 64 model 70's. First off, the Featherweights are usually not as accurate as the standard weights but will shoot 1-1/2 " at 100 yds with most anything. . All that I do is adjust the trigger to my liking and correctly TORQUE all of the action screws. If a scope is installed, all of these screws need to be torqued as well.

Dunno what the "correct" torque is for pre-'64 Model 70s, as I don't believe Winchester ever suggested any, since it was long before the torque craze started. In fact I just published a column in SPORTS AFIELD that discussed the subject, and found several of today's better custom gunmakers don't think much of it. But whatever....

Mule Deer,

At the known risk of making a fool of myself here on the 'fire, explain how the shim "behind" the recoil lug floats the barrel a little? I can see how a similar shim "underneath" the lug surface might "lift" the barrel off the forend surface a little bit but would also throw off the bedding alignment/geometry at the rear action screw.

Pardon my ignorance!

As a long term fan of pre-64 70's, I am grateful I have not had issues getting very adequate (and often stellar) accuracy out of mine. It never hurts however to have an extra "ace" up one's sleeve!

If you don't want to tinker with it just clean it with a good copper remover, work up a load that it likes and shoot it. Mrs Blacktailer's 308 is about a 1 1/2MOA rifle and it works fine for her.

When I first took up elk hunting. I bought a then modern Rem 700 mnt gun in 30-06.. It was of the newer action type that didn't lock the bolt on safe. I had the big box counter guy mount a generic Redfield scope. Bought some generic Federal hi-shock cup&core ammo and sighted it in. 1.5 to 2.0 inch three shot groups is what it did with that ammo. I used it to take three cow elk until I switched to using a muzzleloader. It's still sighted in for that ammo and ready to shoot paper, deer or whatever.

So yea, if fun tinkering is the goal great. If not. Go over the old Winchester for function and preservation and go hunting. They're excellent rifles. The bolt easily disassembles in the field for cleaning. The trigger's about the best ever made. The safety is made for hard terrain. The FTW carries, balances, and aims effortlessly. They really are good.

You may be correct. I have it written down but can't remember where I got it....most likely from an old Gunsmith I knew for years. Anyways....I do 25# on all three action screws in an even progression. I then back out the center screw until it is just snug. You want the front and back to anchor the action and the center just to be there. I'm probably telling you things you already knew. Hope this helps.

25 inch-pounds is relatively light, but not out of the question. Most companies who actually recommend torquing action screws recommend anywhere from around 30-60 pounds--though some recommend even more.

This subject was discussed here not long ago, in regard to taking bolt-rifle barreled action out of their stocks to put them in a take-down case for travel. One example was Melvin Forbes's New Ultra Light Arms rifles, which I've done that with many times. They always returned to zero after reassembly with firm tightening of the action screws--without a torque wrench. Melvin, in fact, does not recommend any specific torque setting for his rifles, because he's found that they not only shoot well with simple firm screw-pressure, but some people torque the screws too much, apparently just because.

The front screw passes through the hole in bread bag tie, which lifts the barrel a bit.

Engineers tell us that screw threads maintain their tension by "bolt stretch" (think of the head, rod and main bolts on an internal combustion engine, no locking adhesive or device). Something on the order of a 1/4" shank, grade 5 or 8, needs to be up around ,real roughly, 72 to 108 inch pounds to get any bolt stretch. Flat bottom actions are more forgiving of variations in torque. Round bottom actions sans pillars are very susceptible to problems of varying torque. In competition, round bottom actions will 'shoot loose' for various reasons, sometimes during a match. Check the screw torque before a match, fire a hundred rounds and sighters, 20 of which will be rapid fire, re check torque, most likely it will be looser. Hence, pillars, and aluminum bedding blocks. I don't torque anything, going by feel, and Mauser, I doubt, ever intended a very tight guard screw since they provided locking screws and pillars both. If a guy were to ask me, I'd say, forget the numbers, snug the hell out of it, mark the screw lightly with a scribe, so you can see with a glance if it has moved and leave it alone. I don't use any adhesive because it the the stock and action could be loose, but if the screw isn't loose, how would you know?
Barsness once wrote a priceless tip about checking bedding, put a dial indicator on the barrel, and indicate to the forearm as you tighten the guard screws, it becomes instantly clear if the action is see-sawing or twisting.

i tinkered with my lightweight 264 Win.mag pre 64 by cleaning barrel,glass bedding ,floating barrel ,little trigger work and my hand loads its a honest 3/4 inch 5 shot group at 100 yards now. its fun to play with these old fine rifles. good luck ,Pete53

Just remember that this is a 60+ year old wood stock that is not bedded and can't handle what a new stock can. This is really pretty simple.

You don't want to take the necessary means to get it to shoot optimally? You don't even want to remove the stock? Time to take up golf? Good luck with your 1 1/4"-1 1/2" shooting rifle. That's good enough for big game hunting at the range your going to use that 308 anyway.

Thank you for taking the time to consider the question and your responses.

Let me preface my response. I am in correspondence with collectors who won't take a screwdriver to a rifle and have never loaded a single bullet but have amassed huge collections of vintage ammunition on one end of the spectrum to rifle loonies who were machinists and die makers by trade who have the experience and skills, craftsmanship and means to improve anything they put their mind to, on the other end. Me? Bursitis at the shoulder, tendonitis at elbow, carpal tunnel, trigger finger and white finger syndrome all in my right arm keep me from whaling away at this project hammer and tongs.

Reading previous threads on the Fire about this subject I have come up with my own set of steps which I will undertake with this classic firearm.

1) Gain as much information from the previous owner to learn what improvements have already been attempted.

2) Clean the barrel with the best bore cleaner, I know, to remove all traces of copper.

3) Lighten the trigger from 6-8 lb. to 3 1/2-4 lb. [DONE]

4) Tighten action screw best I can, loosen magazine screw and the screw behind the trigger guard appropriately.

5) If results are sub MOA I'm pleased, if not, remove the stock, insert the bread bag shim and retighten the screws as per step 4.

6) Tighten all scope screws and mounts to appropriate torque as per instructions from Leupold.

7) Lastly begin standard loading practices according to my reloading manuals using the most accurate powders tested as a starting basis for the 130 and 150 grain TTSXs I'm in the process of sourcing and loading W748 and Varget which I have in stock, respectively. Also I'm going to try to procure some N140 which has a proven history with this rifle.

After engaging in Step 1 with the previous owner, I learned in conversation that a new trigger spring had been procured from Ernie the Gunsmith in Phoenix, installed and thereafter the M70 rifle shot neck sized 1X Nosler brass, CCI 210 Match primers, 46gr. N140 and Hornady 150gr. SP bullets OAL 2.780 into .75 MOA groups. A proven solid shooter!

Thus another classic rifle remains unmolested for future rifle loonies to appreciate.

Again for for your insights and ideas. Cheers!

You answered your own OP about the tutorial. I'd do things differently, but that's just me. I like/appreciate as much precision as I can get. I do all my own work too, so it's on the cheap. No need for a gunsmith in terms of fine tuning a good rifle to attain the best accuracy/precision possible.

olgrouser,

The only suggestion I'd make about your list of steps is that you might need TWO bread-bag shims to effectively free-float the barrel. The way I test this before shooting is to grab the forend tip and barrel in my hand and squeeze. If the forend can still touch the barrel with one shim, then you need to use two, because with one shim the barrel can "tap" the forend during firing--which won't help accuracy.

I'm confused about where you put the bread bag tags. Can you be more specific? In front of the lug, underneath it, behind it, I think all have been mentioned in this thread.

i use release agent on all the medal when i glass bed a rifle ,i have bedded many old and new stocks . those old American made Win. pre 64 stocks are solid and many rifle manufactures don`t use that good of wood anymore on their rifle stocks.

Behind the lug, between the "flat" of the action which includes the front action-screw hole, and the matching flat area of of the stock. If you still don't get it, I can post a photo.

Part of the problem is that I'm sitting at my desk and rifles are at home. Is the tag horizontal or vertical?

John a pictorial might help...

I'll start. My 90% FW 308 wearing a Leupold 2x7:

Dammit, I see an old steel Weaver...and, gasp, in plain ol' Weaver mounts in the background. Bar's- nice, you could get kicked off the fire for that, 'fire rules say Nightforce, 34 mm in Ken Farrel mounts. Heresy sir, heresy.

And those are the scope and mounts that helped the rifle shoot groups well under an inch at 100 yards. I know it's hard to believe with a wood-stocked rifle "bedded" with a pair of bread-bag tabs, but....

Have been informed by more than one reader who tried the plastic-tab free-float that not only did their rifle shoot better, but they didn't bother "officially" bedding it, just left the tab in there. After all, it's probably as stable as epoxy.

That’s my kind of engineering…… Bubba friendly

You guys with the pictures are awesome! Thank you

Whatever works 😊

This is a neat fix it that only experienced shooters would know. Good idea to try and find out how your rifle shoots floated compared to a pressure point. Saves money by not bedding to find out of it will improve accuracy.

Gonna have to try this one in my next problem rifle, which seems to be every rifle I've bought in recent years...🥴

I've never owned a pre64, but have owned quite a few m70s. If it were my rifle I'd make sure all the copper was cleaned out, then shoot a few groups. If I wasn't satisfied I'd have a good smith, who has bedded plenty of m70s, bed the action and float the barrel. Have him cut a new crown while he has it. If the op is a handloader, work up a few "accuracy " loads per the manual. Then I'd hunt with the rifle, a lot.

Love the bread tabs. Read or heard that if you were shooting off the rack M1's for score you'd unlatch the trigger group, lift up the receiver enough to slip a match book cover under the rear end and reseat, The witchery of bedding.

A picture says a thousand words. Thanks MD!

I may give the bread tie trick a try on mine.

If I can ever get time to get to the range.......

They can also work on "standard weight" pre-'64s, if you remove the forend screw.

Have also removed the forend screw on a few occasions back in my stock-making days, when I restocked a few pre-'64s. One belonged to a good friend who's a pre-'64 nut, a .270 that shot well. I asked him if he wanted the forend screw in the new stock, and he said no, not necessarily. So I full-length bedded the stock with a "skim" of Acra-Glas, and it shot better than it did with the original stock and forend screw.