Home Forums Hunting & Shooting BPCR Rebarrling Sharps or reboring another

I am interested in getting into this type of shooting. I have a couple of rifles already.
I have a Shilo in 45/120 and a Meecham in 40/70 ss.
I am thinking about having the sharps made into a 45/70. There is not enough barrel shank to just set back and rechamber. Not sure who to use to do a new barrel.
On the Meecham I am considering having it rebored to 45 and a 45/70 chamber. I do have alot of new brass for this rifle in 40/70. But I keep reading how difficult it is to make this caliber shoot accurately. I have a bunch of moulds or 45 caliber.
Jeff

Have the shiloh rebarrel to 45-70 in the configuration you like. Leave the Meachum alone it is a valuable collector gun.you can sell it as is and buy a new shiloh. Mb

I would send the Shiloh to Shiloh and have them rebarrel it

Send the Shiloh to Shiloh for rebarrel.
Leave the meacham as is.

Thanks
I will call and see the cost and time frame.
The shilo is a early c sharps. As per shilo. When C sharps first started
He bought actions from shilo. My action is marked Shilo and my barrel is marked Old Reliable
So may call both companies
Jeff

I bet it isn;t !!!!!!!

It could be marked Shiloh but never shilo. Mb

338reddog , some where in the 7xxx serial range shiloh was owned by wolf droege and C.Sharps split the sheets . shiloh built the rifles period. C.S harps marketed them. The receivers were marked Shiloh rifle manufacturing. Barrels were marked c Sharps with the old reliable trademark. C Sharps wanted to have more ready availible inventory with greater flexibility in chambering so a rifle would be built with a 45 or 50 or 40 or 44 cal barrel but not chambered until some one walked thru th ree door and said I want a 45 whatever and picked out a rifle with a 45 barrel. They then unscrewed the barrel chambered it to the customer's desire and reinstalled it.
Wolf did not like making guns like that. He also did not like the freebores put in some of the chambers either. They dissolved the partnership and went different ways. They are about 100 yds apart in Big Timber Mt. . Today since 1991 the Bryan family has owned and built Shiloh rifles. The Schoftstalls build the C. SHARPS both are fine rifles. There was a civil suit filed in 1977 or so to determine who owned the old reliable trademark, C .Sharps won that..
A lot of people here think that the 45-120 3.25" is unusable but are merely repeating internet bullsh*t. I have shot and loaded for them they can shoot fine but they have tremendous recoil and use a lot of powder. There is a certain charm in a loaded round that hangs over both sides of the palm of your hand few understand. Shoot the 120 before you discard it..... Mb

"Shoot the 120 before you discard it."
IF you can find brass for it.

Easier found than good 44's or 40-70 st Don. Not to mention that Norma 45 3.25" is some of the best you can buy. Mb

Mine is kind of a Frankenstein. It has a action made by Shilo and the rest is by C Sharps. Shilo told me that in the early years CSharps bought the actions from Shilo. Barrel is Marked Old Reliable
I got a price from both and now just need to decide who to barrel the gun.
As to shooting the 120, I have a-lot of brass and probably 60 rounds of new RCBS Basic . And probably have 10-15 molds, spg lube and powder and 5-6 thousand fed mag primers. Paper for patching and drop tube. MVA sights and Venteurino’s book wads over-powder cards . manuals. I just do not have first hand knowledge of loading black. I dont want to ring the barrel. I also have about 200 new cases for the 40/70 bit no mold/moulds. I do need sights for that rifle
Thanks
Jeff

You nailed it as to the time period. I need to find a mentor near me, I need to gain the confidence in loading black Cartg. I have a few friends. who shoot BPCR matches. The problem is they live 650 miles away. I am trying to buy back a Browning Bpcr 45/70 back from a friend. I never loaded for it. I am a experienced loader of smokeless
Jeff

Sounds like your ready to go. With a drop tube fill up a case with 1 fg powder screed the top off easily with a straight edge. Now dump the powder into a scale pan and weigh it. Do that 5 times and find an average. You will reduce that amount to accommodate seating depth. Depending on whether your loading greasers or paper patch things are different for seating depth. Either way you want 100 % case fill of powder with a loaded bullet. Where do you live? Mb

I live in Idaho
Thanks M B
Jeff

Keep the 120, ive had two, still have one, they are the easiest Sharps rifles to load for and get accurate hunting loads.

Pour in 100 grains 1f, 1.5f or 2F black powder with one 30 thou Walters fiber wad, compress powder with wad enough for a 180-200 thou grease cookie and an 1881 saeco grease groove bullet with just a bit of the front driving band showing, taper crimp case mouth closed so the round will bounce when dropped into the chamber with muzzle on your boot, you can shoot and hunt that rifle all day long without wiping or blow tubing, buy those bullets at Montana Bullet Works, get them lubed with black powder lube and sized to .458 inch.

That's the load i shoot in my 120, it runs 1488 fps with 100gr 2F, great accuracy to 700 yards with the buckhorn barrel sights.

I shot 20 rounds through my 120, no wipe, no blow tube, left leaning against a wall for 24 hours, pushed a dry patch through the bore, the fouling was still wet, running a grease groove bullet with a grease cookie makes a soft slurry lube out of the fouling it cant be beat for hunting, imho.

keep the Hepburn as is, beautiful rifles, plus the 40-70 SS has a rich heritage.

Thanks for the response, I have a lot to learn as some is foreign to me. Im not sure how to make a grease cookie? I do have a rinbon extruder in the box and a block of spg. I have a lot of molds but I could order some to start.

You're most welcome, steal a glass dish from your wife, 9x13 inch i guess is what i stole, melt enough lube at 170 degrees in your oven till it's 180-200 thou high, turn off oven let cool, you now have a pan of grease cookies, after compressing powder to desired depth with wad on top, push case mouth of compressed round to bottom of glass, turn back and forth, withdraw, grease cookie will be flush with case mouth, take small phillips screwdriver and punch a hole in cookie, use wooden dowel to push down on wad, seat bullet on cookie, no need for a top wad, a grease groove bullet will sit just fine on the cookie.

May have to call Montana Bullet Works, i didn't see they had the 1881 Saeco bullet in their inventory, i use it over the big Lyman gov greaser as it has a few thousandths smaller nose, easier to shoot/hunt/load/unload dirty.

The grease cookie does not stick to the bullet?
Jeff

I my opinion absolutely not, with a hard wad and powder charge exploding kicking that cookie in the butt it has no choice but to be squashed out into the lands and grooves, i have heard of cookies surviving the trip down the bore sandwiched between two wads under paper patch bullets, i dont know the air temps when shot, or composition of said lube used, i say this from shooting grease groove bullets with and without a cookie, the grease cookie with a grease groove bullet is unbelievable at controlling fouling.

Guess i should have asked, are you going to hunt with these rifles or just target shoot? if target shooting just wipe between shots and have fun.

I also bought wad punches and their wad punch board from Buffalo Arms, i cut playing card wads, they're around .0012" thick, very hard and sturdy, hard [wax?] coated, imho no lube will ever impregnate or get by the playing card wad to contaminate the powder charge or paper patch.

Gunner you give Jeff some good advice. Every time I hear that old saw rasping about how bad the 120 is I just shake my head and know that the critic is a dick and repeats stupid chit. Mb

LOl, Thanks MB, i've heard that parrot lip speak you're talking about.

Maybe some of both. The 40/70 feels lighter and I would like to hunt with it. The sharps is a little heavy and until my shoulder gets better I’m not sure I can handle it unless road hunting. I am not any good at road hunting. Although not opposed to killing a deer or elk near a road. I don’t care for packing all that much. I try to bone out if to far from a road. I also hate the thought of sliding either rifle into a saddle scabbard. I’ve been on a wild horse a time or two and have rifles more suited to a horse rolling over with my rifle tied to him

Well,

I might be that old saw, you fellas refer to. As some that shoots competitively out to a mile, I say the 120 aka the 3.25 is too much of a good thing. Grease cookies or wads take up a lot of case capacity, which makes it more durable usage wise anyway.

I shoot a 45-110 aka 2-7/8ths a good bit. With PP bullet. It is the biggest case the Sharps factory offered, were as the 3.25 wasn’t a standard chambering.which is my beef with it. Believe me in 92 when I ordered mine I wanted one Wolfgang set me down and gave it to me straight. There is documentation that says a single 3.25 was made for a gentleman at UMC.

How many of you 3.25 guys shoot, 700-850 rounds a year in your 120’s in the various gong and paper matches. How many of you win, or place well? Pedersoli used to offer a put your money where your mouth is. Called the 5200 something Dan Theodor and Dick Trink came up with. With several different categories. It was all about group size.

It’s a shame that this went away, as it would give folks the chance to put up or shut up.

I host a match at our ranch. It’s a Creedmoor style on traditional steel targets with a scoreable bullseye. 800-900-1000 yards. Also I host a Mile match at the same time. Any of you 120 buys is welcome to come try your hand.

I know magnum Bob attended once, he was well treated hell I even feed him.

Bring your rifle and show us how it’s done.

Kenny Wasserburger

PS to the original poster question, I agree with Don aka Ranch, send it to Shiloh, not Shilo learn to spell it right. Their barrels are made in house and the best there is. C Sharps hasn’t used badger barrels in 16-17 years. Unless you buy a 1-18 twist Douglas or 1-16 for your rifle for them to use. Otherwise just Send it to Shiloh.

KW

Our numbers are small, and getting smaller every year, our old buddy Bagwell just pulled out too, long story short, i'm not critical of ANY Sharps rifle chambering, i encourage and help in any way i can, dont give a chit what the Sharps rifle factory did or did not chamber, also dont care if someone shows up here with a Sharps rifle in 22 Hornet, i'll set them up with my machine shop Bud to turn them a powder compression die, wad punch, drop tube, and try to find someone to cut a mould for them.

No match shooter here either, buckhorn barrel, and copper penny front sight hunter, Cape Buffalo, Zebra, Eland, Sable, American Buffalo and dozens of white tail deer and pigs, just left Savageton Wyo. on the 10th of October, hit a nice doe mule deer at 156 yards with my 44-77 and doe Antelope with an old pre-64 264 WM, great hunt. better eats!

Bill had been to our ranch several times, we even spent 4 days testing new process powder.

Later called express. I knew him well called him friend.

Our ranch is east of Savageton. I worked the area and fracked a lot of gas wells there. Knew the Rossbacks, Roy used to lease the ranch next to ours. I also know the Camblins. I fracked a lot of wells around the Pumpkin Buttes. Jim Hall is also a good friend of mine over on the black and yellow.

Business rifle buckhorn and copper penny front here also 4 dead buffer to its credit.

But also a target shooter, paper n steel.

I would never cheer on someone making a bad choice, a 120 is a bad choice.

Kenny Wasserburger

Gunner what bullet you using in the 44-77? What bullet in the 264? Mb

Gunner500,

45,074 posts? When do you find time too shoot. That’s over 10 separate posts a day.


Were you hunting on Geer’s?

Kenny W.

[quote=gunner500, just left Savageton Wyo. on the 10th of October, hit a nice doe mule deer at 156 yards with my 44-77 and doe Antelope with an old pre-64 264 WM, great hunt. better eats![/quote]

So what's up with that? so close by and you didn't call?

MB, 1.285 long 475gr paper patch, i cast these really soft at a guesstimated 40/1 alloy for deer this year, they're wrapped with the very last patches our old buddy Bagwell ever cut, i talked with Sidra the other day, she's not ready to clean the paper scraps off the table and floor yet, just like he left it. ......i shoot 160gr PP Woodleigh Weldcores at 3000 fps over RL-33 in the 264 WM.

KW, i retired at 46 years old in '09, that's when i discovered the internet and joined a couple forums, that gave me plenty of time to shoot AND fu-k off on the internet, you see, since 1985 i only went to work maybe 1-3 times per year, have always had plenty of leisure time, no on Geer's, this hunt was put together for a bud i've known for 35 years that's trying to stay alive, leukemia is trying to take him, we got him out and had a hell of a hunt, no pics were taken, the trip was about him, i'm sure he appreciated the no pic deal in his current condition, hope like fu-k it's not his last!

Damn Ranch, i didn't know you were so close, this hunt wouldn't have mattered anyway because of the reasons stated above, it wasn't a real social deal this time, if i'm ever in the area again i will give you a call.

You were within 38 miles of me also. But of course you didn’t know it.

KW

Bill was quite a guy, enjoyed spending time with him on our ranch, testing powder.

KW, i'll give Ranch a call if out that way again, maybe we can find a place to sit for a visit and run a blade through a ribeye.

Bill was one of a kind, i remember him telling me about the powder testing at your place, also how well that 480gr Lyman flat nosed greaser flew to 1000 in the big winds up your way.

Speaking of 45-110's, i have three, two originals and one 15lb bull barrel rifle, i love em, it's a hell of a cartridge, i shoot paper patch in all three, a 514gr round nose copy of a factory Sharps bullet from a Mos mould, and a 520gr bullet with a 0250" meplat, it was made by Ed Tlton, Bagwell gave me both moulds.

My 120 came from me spotting a long barreled rifle in the rack at a local gun store 12 years ago, the rifle, a set of RCBS dies, and 200 Norma cases, 800 bucks out the door, took all that to Bagwells, he had me busting his 500 meter ram in less than 20 minutes with a brand new copper penny front sight he just made, yep, the hook was set, and set damn hard!

We will have to do that.

KW

Sounds like a plan

One thing about you gents AO's, if i ever leave the state of Oklahoma, i'll land in the Rapid City/Wall South Dakota area.