Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Elk Hunting 210 Berger for elk??

Jeff,

The heavier target jacket came out about 2007 + or -.

Every Berger VLD prior to 2000 was the thinner jacket that became the hunting bullet.

I don't thing it matter much as the target jacket kill the crap out of critter but facts be facts.

Just Sayin.

I realize this started with a debate on the 210's, but other calibers/bullet weights are being discussed. This is from another thread that I posted a couple of ears ago.
I will start this with a few observations. All bullets are designed with a use in mind. There is no one size fits all in bullets. I have no problems with other bullets. I have taken Barnes TTSX's and Nosler accubonds to Africa. Both have served me well. This last trip I took Bergers. I usually get extremely good accuracy and good results with them. Bergers are often used in longer range hunting and are designed to expand reliably at lower velocities. If you plan to use them I will strongly suggest that you heed the next observations:
1) Use heavy for caliber bullets. I used 180 grainers in my 7mm SAUM. If you use a faster bigger .28 caliber cartridges then use their 195 grainers. In .30 caliber use the 215 grain hybrid. Easy to load and deadly effective on game. In a .26 caliber use the 140's or 156's. Apply the same to other calibers.
2) Always check the points. Bergers are a hollow point design. Occasionally the point will be "clogged or closed". That bullet, if not opened, will act like a solid and pencil through an animal. A small drill bit should be used to make sure they are all open. If closed then use that one for practice or drill it open.
3) Do not expect reliable expansion at over 3000 fps. You are more likely to get over expansion at higher velocities along with poor penetration. My SAUM runs the 180's at 2900 fps. That is about right. My .30 Nosler runs the 215's at 2990. Works well too. I would not run them at 3200 fps and expect reliable close range expansion. Some have had good penetration doing so, but I wouldn't try it.
On to the point of this post. 16 animals of assorted sizes were taken with my SAUM and the 180 gr bullet's. They are as follows:
1) Cape eland cow at 469 yards. Hit slightly further back than wanted. Down and dead quickly.
2)Cape eland bull at 511 yds. Heart shot. Dead in less than 20 yds. Pretty impressive.
3)Springbock at 175-200 yds. Broadside shot slightly back and high. Down in its tracks.
4)Duiker spotlighted at maybe 40 yds quartering to me. High shoulder down in his tracks.
5)Vaal Rhebuck at 313 yds. Hit way back top of back. Spine hit. Down in his tracks.
6) Klipspringer at 269 yds. A little far back and high. Down and done in place.
7)Blesbuck cow at 130 yds? Back a little and a little high. Down immediately with no fuss.
8) Bull Livingston eland. Huge animal. 75 yds. First hit was high shoulder. Staggered him. Went perhaps 75 yds and He appeared to be staggering and turning to lie down when I hit him again up high mid body which put him down. Much bigger body than either of my cape buffalo.
9)Hartebeest cow at 200 yds. Quartering slightly to me. Hit mid way up behind the shoulder. Went 40-50 yds.
10)2nd Hartebeest cow. Broadside at 80-90 yds. Hit behind shoulder. Went 30 yds or so.
11)Hartebeest bull at 150-170 yds quartering to me. Low shoulder into the heart. Went maybe 60 yds.
12) Bushbuck at 200 yds or a little more. Hit a little high behind the shoulder. Went perhaps 30 yds.
Mikes animals as follows in Zambia:
1)Waterbuck at 150 yds broadside. Hit behind shoulder. Went about 70 yds.
2)Puku at 80-90 yds perhaps. Quartering hard away. Hit in front of hind quarter lining up on far shoulder. Went about 40 yds.
3)Bushbuck at 120 yds. Broadside. Behind shoulder. Went 25 yds.
4)Lechwe at 230 yds. Behind shoulder half way up. Down in its tracks. Kicked twice.
I will add the following NA animals for additional consideration:
A) 6.5-06 w/ 140 grain bullet. Bighorn ram at 100 yds. Broadside. Hit back too far. Got liver. Went perhaps 100 yds.
B) 180 in the SAUM. Antelope at 130 yds. A little high behind shoulder. Down in his tracks.
C)180 in SAUM Whitetail doe. 75 yds facing me. Down in her tracks.
D) 180 in SAUM WT buck. 300 yds. 1 shot in leg and one mid body. Went perhaps 30 yds.
E) 215 gr in .30 Nosler. Bull moose at just over 100 yds. Quartering to me. In front of shoulder. Went less than 20 yds.
F) 6.5 SS w/ 156 gr. Whitetail buck at 20 yds. Quartering away. High behind shoulder. Down in his tracks.
G) 6.5 w/ 156 gr Pronghorn buck. Broadside. Hit slightly low behind shoulder. Went 25 yds.
H) 6.5 w/ 156 gr. Pronghorn doe at 325 yds. Behind shoulder a touch high. Down in her tracks.
Notice that I needed more than 1 shot on a wt buck that I screwed up on and the Livingston eland that likely didn't need it.
Bruce

Awesome report Bruce.

How do you like the Bergers vs the TTSX and Accubonds yiu used in the past?

Berger user here. Love the 140gr Hunting VLD in my 6.5-284 and .260 Rem. Mostly deer and one elk. Never an issue getting the animals down and usually in spectacular fashion.

In my .300 Win I currently use the 230gr Berger OTM with great success on elk, but had good luck with the 210gr for the short time I used it. Would use the 215gr also, just have better accuracy with the 230gr, and it is a hammer.

I think each of those bullets has a place at the table so to speak. I'm running Berger's right now in my 3 main hunting rifles. I like the accuracy. I always clean/check the tips and run them at speeds that seem to help them shine. I'll tell you the honest truth. I have wanted to extend the range that I'm comfortable shooting at. For the longer ranges the Berger's really shine. Unfortunately I have not tuned my loads and done enough shooting to really make that happen. That means I could just as well use the AB's or TTSX's
For virtually every animal on that hunt report you could of used a AB or TTSX. With the current shortage of reloading components I have excellent supplies of Bergers. They keep on working well for me. Just last week was able to get 3 more boxes of 6.5 mm 156 grainers.
The list above is incomplete. Got a Covid special hunt and went to Tanzania. Never could of afforded it otherwise. Killed 7 animals. 180 gr Berger VLD in my 7 SAUM. 6 were 1 shot kills with none of the animals going more than 50 yds. The one exception was my fault on a Thompson's Gazelle. I made a bad first shot because I rushed it....
Headed back to Africa this May. Found some great day rates at less than $200/day with good trophy fees. I'll either take my 7 SAUM or maybe my 6.5 SS. 180 gr Bergers or 156 gr Bergers. I guess you could say I believe in them as long as I do my part.
Bruce

Thanks Bruce. That’s good intel. Thank you.

GilleteHunter

"2) Always check the points. Bergers are a hollow point design. Occasionally the point will be "clogged or closed". That bullet, if not opened, will act like a solid and pencil through an animal. A small drill bit should be used to make sure they are all open. If closed then use that one for practice or drill it open.


That has NOT been my experience with Berger VLDs, and have been using them since 2007.

The reason Berger VLDs usually have "delayed expansion" is because the points ARE closed. Instead of starting to open up immediately on impact, the expansion is delayed for a couple of inches, unlike most conventional expanding bullets, which start to open up immediately on impact. This is because the relatively thin jacket has an "air pocket" behind the point, and as a result the point collapses later than conventional soft-point (or plastic-tipped) bullets. With Bergers, expansion starts when the bullets are through the ribs, and inside the chest cavity. Which is why they kill very well, even if they come apart.

Have NEVER seen them "act like a solid and pencil through an animal," at ranges out to 600 yards.

Might also add that all the reports of Bergers "blowing up on impact" have been when they've been used at short ranges, when started at well over 3000 fps. This apparently because many hunters still believe that any "long range" bullet MUST be started at well over 3000 fps.

I run the 140 Berger VLD hunters at 3220 in my 6.5x300wsm, 3 years ago I shot a Bull at 75 yards and it did exactly what all the other Bergers ive shot deer and Elk with stopped in his tracks and destroyed the vitals

Am not surprised! The 140 6.5 Hunting VLD is a great bullet. However, would guess you put it behind the shoulder in the ribs.

On their website Berger used to recommend that the Hunting VLDs not be started at over 3100 fps, which worked fine. Have used them at 3200 fps with no problems But the the guys who've had problems are putting them in shoulders at close range.

I've repeatedly had issues with the 140 6.5mm VLD blowing up and not penetrating bone at a started velocity of 2880 FPS and distances from "close range" to about 500 yards. Maybe a bit further but I am not recalling right now. Elk shoulders have normally been involved though. I can't deny that.

Even when not, berger's killing effectiveness has been grossly exaggerated, IME. They have normally worked fine when put behind the shoulder, but no better or quicker than regular C&Cs.

That's just my experience and I am sure the usual suspects will tell me I am full of it, have too small a sample or whatever other excuse they can come up with to argue that they're experience means more than mine. Carry on.

Isn't that were any bullet should go, behind the shoulder?

I'drew a bull tag here in AZ.
m looking to buy some 6.5 Elite Hunters.
If you want sell, pm me. Thanks.

So the jist of this is they dont perform at close range, better at longer range. Why not just shoot the good old standard soft point and just get closer? Not make the I have a magnum or 6.5 crapmoor so i should long range turkey shoot. Come on!!!! What did you do before?

Blah!!!

There are different performances for each bullet at different ranges. Hard stop.

A Berger hunting VLD is different for each caliber and velocity range. A newer 7mm Hunting VLD is the only Berger bullet that I have used that didn't perform as advertised. It peciled through the ribs at 350 yards , which resulted in a slow deaths (luckily she stood in her tracks and fell over ~3 minutes after she was hit). so she was easy to find.

I've killed many elk (15 or so) with 7mm 168 VLDs and 180 Hybrids and all were perfect kills.

I will admit that 180 Hybrid targets are soft so they work best when velocities are below 2,500fps or less. They work great at long range.

I have used those 6.5/140gr quite a bit with a muzzle velocity of 3,000 fps in a 6.5x65R RWS (sort of 6.5-06) on two cull hunts in RSA and Namibia where I shot a number of Hartebeest, Blue and Black Wildebeest,Oryx, and a few Zebra.

All of them penetrated well even after hitting the humerous bone. Most of them blew up well inside the innards producing a devastating effect, while some penetrated like you would expect from a 140gr NBT, for example. A high percentage of the latter exhibited dramatic changes of trajectory inside the animal.

I have observed different behaviours in different VLDs, though, not all of them doing the same. My very favourite, performance wise, is the 105gr I load in my 6XC, and the worst by far, was the 120gr I loaded in a 25-06 that would pencil through about 50% of the time, with 7x57/140gr, .270/140gr, 6.5/130gr/135gr standing somewhere in the middle.

These fellas shoot long range; they also take a lot of game with Berger Bullets.

They work fine. Make sure the tip are clear and open to the lead, but do not increase the hole size.