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#16539353 10/18/21
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Should We Have Gone Into Iraq?

With the death of Powell, it would be interesting to see what everyone’s take on the Iraq War (2003 version) is today.

Here are some of the takeaways after the fact:

1. What was clear at the time was Hans Blix and Kofi Annan were pushing their own agendas and were not to be trusted. Later of course we learned that Kofi and his son were making millions with the Food for Oil program and they surely didn’t want to disrupt their illicit windfall.

2. It was in the best interest for Saddam to either hide or pretend he possessed WMDs to keep Iran and factions within Iraq at bay. He thought he could depend on his buddy Blix and Annan to keep Bush off his back. Woops.

3. The French were busy selling more than $2 billion in weapons to Saddam violating the trade embargo. They certainly didn’t support the war.

4. Saddam was a brutal son of a bitch but his Ba'ath Party kept a lid on Shia and Sunni factions. Unfortunately, his attacks on the Kurds was a deal breaker for me. Not that the Kurds are angels, but chemical attacks on civilians is bullshite


So, in hindsight seeing what happened and the lives lost, what is your position on the war?


My personal view at the time was Saddam was a problem that needed to go. But I never saw the connection with 9-11 and was not convinced removing him was going to solve the problems in Iraq. The real threat always was and continues to be Iranian backed terrorists. While I was glad to see him go, we botched the war by attempting to establish a new government. We should have killed Saddam and then worked with the existing powers to maintain control.

Saddam was the weight on the pressure cooker. Once removed, the kitchen got real messy.

Last edited by STRSWilson; 10/18/21.

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GWB had a hard on to kill Saddam because Saddam sent assassins to kill GHWB in Kuwait after Desert Storm. Proportedly their were 3 different plots to kill GHWB.
https://www.grunge.com/306774/the-assassination-attempt-against-george-h-w-bush/

OTOH, Saddam needed killing. He gassed the Iranians, he gassed the Kurds. That is fact. He violated 16 UN resolutions.

https://georgewbush-whitehouse.archives.gov/infocus/iraq/decade/sect2.html#:~:text=Saddam%20Hussein%27s%20Defiance%20of%20United%20Nations%20Resolutions%20Saddam,pose%20a%20threat%20to%20international%20peace%20and%20security.

If he wanted to stay alive, all he had to do was let the inspectors in.




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Originally Posted by hatari
GWB had a hard on to kill Saddam because Saddam sent assassins to kill GHWB in Kuwait after Desert Storm. Proportedly their were 3 different plots to kill GHWB.
https://www.grunge.com/306774/the-assassination-attempt-against-george-h-w-bush/

OTOH, Saddam needed killing. He gassed the Iranians, he gassed the Kurds. That is fact. He violated 16 UN resolutions.

https://georgewbush-whitehouse.archives.gov/infocus/iraq/decade/sect2.html#:~:text=Saddam%20Hussein%27s%20Defiance%20of%20United%20Nations%20Resolutions%20Saddam,pose%20a%20threat%20to%20international%20peace%20and%20security.

If he wanted to stay alive, all he had to do was let the inspectors in.





Yeah, thats why we invaded. 16 UN resolutions.

How many Iraqis and US servicemen and women did those 16 UN resolutions cost?


How many trillions?



Fugg sakes.


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Originally Posted by STRSWilson


Saddam was the weight on the pressure cooker. Once removed, the kitchen got real messy.


Agreed. Taking him out left a power vacuum that we naively thought Democracy would fill. Not in the Middle East.


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Should We Have Gone Into Iraq?

No! I said that 20 years ago.

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Originally Posted by hatari
Originally Posted by STRSWilson


Saddam was the weight on the pressure cooker. Once removed, the kitchen got real messy.


Agreed. Taking him out left a power vacuum that we naively thought Democracy would fill. Not in the Middle East.



Nobody thought that.


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No, and I said so then.

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Originally Posted by Jim_Conrad
Originally Posted by hatari
GWB had a hard on to kill Saddam because Saddam sent assassins to kill GHWB in Kuwait after Desert Storm. Proportedly their were 3 different plots to kill GHWB.
https://www.grunge.com/306774/the-assassination-attempt-against-george-h-w-bush/




Yeah, thats why we invaded. 16 UN resolutions.

How many Iraqis and US servicemen and women did those 16 UN resolutions cost?


How many trillions?


Fugg sakes.




My opinion is that the resolutions were simply an excuse for GWB's vendetta. Blame him for the money and the deaths.


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Originally Posted by Jim_Conrad
Originally Posted by hatari
Originally Posted by STRSWilson


Saddam was the weight on the pressure cooker. Once removed, the kitchen got real messy.


Agreed. Taking him out left a power vacuum that we naively thought Democracy would fill. Not in the Middle East.



Nobody thought that.


You forget the the policy of "Nation building"?

https://ethics.harvard.edu/event/iraq-and-ethics-nation-building


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Originally Posted by hatari
Originally Posted by Jim_Conrad
Originally Posted by hatari
Originally Posted by STRSWilson


Saddam was the weight on the pressure cooker. Once removed, the kitchen got real messy.


Agreed. Taking him out left a power vacuum that we naively thought Democracy would fill. Not in the Middle East.



Nobody thought that.


You forget the the policy of "Nation building"?

https://ethics.harvard.edu/event/iraq-and-ethics-nation-building


No, I dont.


We knew it was war for profit.


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Pre desert storm Iraq was a good distraction for Iran. We messed all that up by taking out Saddam...

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Hindsight is always 20-20. ..... Not meant to slam anyone.

At the time, I went along with it, admittedly. Now? It was the most asinine thing the U.S. could have done. Moreover, the corruption in all things related to the sandbox is mind boggling.

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Originally Posted by hatari
Originally Posted by Jim_Conrad
Originally Posted by hatari
GWB had a hard on to kill Saddam because Saddam sent assassins to kill GHWB in Kuwait after Desert Storm. Proportedly their were 3 different plots to kill GHWB.
https://www.grunge.com/306774/the-assassination-attempt-against-george-h-w-bush/




Yeah, thats why we invaded. 16 UN resolutions.

How many Iraqis and US servicemen and women did those 16 UN resolutions cost?


How many trillions?


Fugg sakes.




My opinion is that the resolutions were simply an excuse for GWB's vendetta. Blame him for the money and the deaths.



I can and will, and the Hawks and the Media and Wall Street.


We fugging near did the same thing in Syria. We had to tell Obama and Ivanka the same thing.......fugg no.


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I wasn't in favor of invading Iraq just as I wasn't in favor of going to Viet Nam. In the case of Nam we could have ended all that misery easily but our fighting men and women were hindered my various rules and edicts coming from our own leadership. For the record I served in that era but was stateside. The end result of both military operations were ill conceived and ended badly with tens of thousands of American troop deaths. Nation building doesn't work but our leadership never seem to get that concept.


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We could of supported the Kurds but we would of made turkey who is a NATO member upset. I don't really give a [bleep] about Turkey. We should of went into the Kurdish regions only to put a stick in Saddam's eye and set up a camp to keep both Turkey and Iraq off guard and second guessing their every move. That would of been it.

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Was Saddam a bad man. Of course he was. Unfortunately that’s what it takes to keep those folks in-line. Nice folks don’t have much luck with the camel jocks. Be interesting to see how the Chinese do in Afghanistan. Hasbeen


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Nothing personal Hatari.

We just look at it differently.


Dad was agianst both Iraq wars....so I suppose that is why I feel like I do.



I asked him about the First War once. He did not get called up for that.


He didnt agree but would have done his duty.


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Up until the Islamic revolution in the late '70s the entire middle east was for the most part relatively peaceful and on good terms with the U.S.A., albeit under U.S. supported 'despot' leaders, but they still welcomed, enjoyed and adopted western ideals, advances, engineering, technology, styles, etc., as well as much more freedom.






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We should have killed every SOB we could find in the Middle East, and then left. Real quick like.

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people smarter than me should have realized that it was a bad idea. thats what we pay them for. but when all the smart guys relatives are making bank on wars, it leaves one to ponder any fuggen war we have been in for the past 80 years, with the possible exception of the korea conflict. in my opinion it was a success and accomplished its mission. desert storm as well. everything else is kind of iffy IMO. imagine no vietnam and no iraq and afg wars.


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