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I like short barreled carbines while hunting out of a portable climbing deer stands.

I had shoulder surgery back in November of 2020, so recoil is an issue.

Here's a T/C Encore 20" barrel in 25-45 Sharps (25-223). Loaded long I'm getting 2,720 fps with an old school Rem 100 gr Core-lokt.

Perfect for southern deer.


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Originally Posted by horse1
Originally Posted by BWalker
I bought my son and daughter Howa Alpines in 6.5 Creed and 7mm-08. To be honest I absolutely detest the 20" barrels on these guns. For starters the balance to me sucks, the muzzle rise on both is a bit much for the cartridges, they are louder than they should be and the velocity loss with both bothers me. I would be much happier with a 22-23" tube.


The difference between 20" and 22" in 7-08 shooting 120TSX/V-Max is 50FPS. 3000fps via R-15 in a 20" Vanguard Youth and a SS M7. 3050fps from a 22" Kimber MT, Rem Mt Guide, and M70 Ranger. Gotta be an awful long ways away before 50FPS makes the difference between a hit and a miss. Doesn't even gain you 50yds of effective range if you subscribe to 1800fps minimum impact velocity.

In the 7mm-08 I am running the 120TTSX. I'm getting 2900 fps with RL17 and that's very close to max. The 6.5 creed is shooting Hornday 120gr GMX factory loads at 2725. To me the 7mm is about 100 fps short of what it should be and the 6.5 is 150fps off. Does this matter? Not really, but it does drive my old nuts.

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Originally Posted by JGRaider
Originally Posted by BWalker
I bought my son and daughter Howa Alpines in 6.5 Creed and 7mm-08. To be honest I absolutely detest the 20" barrels on these guns. For starters the balance to me sucks, the muzzle rise on both is a bit much for the cartridges, they are louder than they should be and the velocity loss with both bothers me. I would be much happier with a 22-23" tube.


Do them a favor....get them a suppressor. Solves all sorts of kid problems.

The kids are using these guns primarily in the mountains and they are packing them all day by themselves. As such the added weight of a suppressor just isn't desirable. I am outfitting their prarie dog guns with suppressors in the near future.

Last edited by BWalker; 10/16/21.
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Picked up a Savage Axxis 2, chambered in 350 Legend.... 18.5 inch Predator contour barrel..

its awfully handy in things like Brush....

Loaning it to a handicapped friend who will be road hunting with it, as a passenger in his brother's truck...
due to his lack of mobility, supposedly he is legal road hunting...


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I'm using 16 inch barrels on bolt and autos in 5.56 (mostly with a can) to kill deer and hogs. I really like shorter guns but the blast may be too much for some without cans...


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I prefer a shorter tube for my hunting. for positional shooting, back packing and especially horseback.
I am not a shotgunner, so balance, swinging into shooting position means little to me.As a matter of fact, although I am over 6' , I even shorten l.o.p. on most of my hunting rifles.
I seldom see idealic shooting conditions, I shoot off a backpack, a stump or what ever aid I can find.
Shorter barrels are more inclined to be more accurate....Benchrest rifles have short heavy tubes.

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I have a 6.5 PRC that i shot the barrel out of, was at my local gunsmith yesterday, we put a 18" barrel and 1 of my cans on it, shot it this morning, about 1/2" AT 100 yrds, and about 3" at 500 yrds, and it handles real well with good balance, that's good enough for anything i will use it for. Rio7

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16" 358 shoots 180 Barnes ttsx into one big hole


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I only have two cf bolt guns with barrels shorter than 20". My AR's all have 16.0" barrels.

The first is an 18.5" M600 Remington in .243. It is the last of my rifles for getting folks started in deer hunting. Muzzle blst is not too bad. Performance has been excellent which I partially credit to the reduced velocity of my 100 grain handloads which get around 2750 fps. It had a companion M880 Mossberg I had cut to 19". Same same.

The second is a Ruger Scout rifle in .308 Win. I sold my first, 16.5" one to a friend. He loves it. I prefer a little more tube as I like 2700fps+ with 150's out of a .308 Win.. The 18.3 with the brake is not bad for recoil but I take it off to hunt. I am planning on a can for this or I likely wouldn't own it. It is handy for a tight cover gun.

Frankly, for most uses a .30-06 with a 22 In barrel is my favorite. I can manage it in heavy woods and thwy are good to 300 yards easily. About the farthest away I will start shooting.

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On hunting rifles, without a suppressor, 20 inches is my limit and I wear hearing protection every time I shoot anything. I have a couple of rifles with shorter barrels like a Marlin Marauder in 35 Remington with a barrel a little over 16 inches that I might shoot at the range, but I'll double up on the hearing protection.

To me it's just not worth putting up with the increase in blast and loosing a couple of inches in barrel length just doesn't make the rifle that much more handy.


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Originally Posted by powdr
I am looking at a short barreled rifle for deer. I have had a bunch of rifles in my 69 years but never one w/less than 20 1/2 inches. This one in particular has an 18 1/2in barrel and I just don't have any experience w/one that short. I just have never liked them. Help. powdr


Get it and shoot it suppressed, you’ll most likely love it.
Have a 19” 308, and actually chopped a 6.5 creed, 6.5 SAUM, and 300 WSM to 20” - i shoot all of them suppressed.


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And PS, if you’re looking at a 18.5” Fieldcraft and don’t want it, I’ll call dibs on buying it!


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Short = loud. Larger bores, faster powders and charges under mid thirty grains all seem to have less blast.

I don't really notice an advantage to short barreled carbines in the woods. 22" is short enough.


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Just curious what kind of velocity your getting and what you're seeing for "on-game" results? Cool little rifle!

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I have tried a few and don't like how loud they are.
I agree with urbaneruralite, don't see any advantage of shorter than 22" in the woods.


I may not be smart but I can lift heavy objects

I have a shotgun so I have no need for a 30-06.....
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I'm with the 22" crowd. I've got sissy ears.

Lately I've put a fair number of rounds through an 18.5" 6.5 CM Sig Cross as well as a 22" 6.5 CM Fieldcraft. I wear cheap ear plugs and muffs on top while shooting. The difference in the 18.5" and 22" is very noticeable to me.

I shoot 22", 21", and an 18" .223AI's. I can't tell a difference between 22 and 21.....18" is noticeable. Same for me on the 16" AR's.

I shoot a 21" .358 along side a 22" .308. Neither are bad but the .358 actually seems a tad bit milder on the noise. Expansion ratio, etc....

Kinda think anything under 20" should be suppressed for me. I really am a candy-azz regarding my ears.

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Originally Posted by JCMCUBIC
I'm with the 22" crowd. I've got sissy ears.

Lately I've put a fair number of rounds through an 18.5" 6.5 CM Sig Cross as well as a 22" 6.5 CM Fieldcraft. I wear cheap ear plugs and muffs on top while shooting. The difference in the 18.5" and 22" is very noticeable to me.

I shoot 22", 21", and an 18" .223AI's. I can't tell a difference between 22 and 21.....18" is noticeable. Same for me on the 16" AR's.

I shoot a 21" .358 along side a 22" .308. Neither are bad but the .358 actually seems a tad bit milder on the noise. Expansion ratio, etc....

Kinda think anything under 20" should be suppressed for me. I really am a candy-azz regarding my ears.



Same here I detest the blast from short barreled rifles in high intensity chamberings



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It's often apparent just how "right" a 22" short action sporter bolt gun is, as a jack of all trades. Not really cumbersome, but also not too blasty.


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Originally Posted by Mac284338
Just curious what kind of velocity your getting and what you're seeing for "on-game" results? Cool little rifle!


Mac I haven't chrono'd this rifle. Figure it doesn't really matter for what I would do with it.

Only game I've killed with this rifle is this years bear. Two shots, holes 2" apart on the entry side, same exit hole about 2". Bear went about 5 yards.


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I can't understand the desire to shoot a rifle without a suppressor...and a 16.5" tube just makes the gun handier with the can.

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