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The premium bullets that are good for elk etc work fine on smaller game and don't blast so many lead fragments everywhere you have to pick out (or find with your teeth). The cost difference is so small it's not worth having a second load for smaller animals. Just use A-Frames and Terminal Ascents on everything.

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Originally Posted by Llama_Bob
The premium bullets that are good for elk etc work fine on smaller game and don't blast so many lead fragments everywhere you have to pick out (or find with your teeth). The cost difference is so small it's not worth having a second load for smaller animals. Just use A-Frames and Terminal Ascents on everything.


LB, you have a line on where the TA's are available?


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TRex, good luck on your hunt. You're going to love those 139's in that 6.5, guaranteed. I've shot quite a few whitetail does, a big muley buck, and loads of hogs from 50-350lbs with them and they are a killing machine.


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Not really important in this conversation, but Ballistic Tips were introduced
before the 1990's, Guessing 84-85. I started reloading in 87 and they
had been around awhile. Still working out of 100 count boxes in 165gr.
Bought all the stock a shop had in a going out of business sale around
1993.

Don't know if they are tough or not. In a 660 308 they have been
great. Reasonably meat damage, quick kills. Usually full penetration.

In a 300Win with 76g 4350 (do not replicate without caution) they were
still ok. But only killed 3 or 4 deer with it




About the load.

Young, dumb.... guy told me it was a great load if not too hot for your gun. By the 3rd round new primers fall out. Havent used the gun/load in years. I keep
thinking those rounds need to be disassembled. If shot in a tighter gun, they
could be a problem.


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I use c&c for deer and hogs. Nosler partitions for elk. I like simplicity.

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At 308 speeds the 100 count boxed 165 grain bullets were fine on deer.

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mathman,

So were the 140-grain 7mm B-Tips on deer and pronghorn, at any range out to 350 yards--as far as I ever shot anything with them. They killed quickly, but I never recovered one, even on angling shots through heavy bone..

As noted earlier, Nosler got the hardness/expansion right on some of the original Ballistic Tips, but not on others. But that's common with newly-introduced bullets. Have seen it a number of times over the decades, and among the bullets were the Barnes X and even TSX, Hornady SST, Swift Scirocco (which is why there's a Scirocco II) and some of the original Trophy Bonded Bear Claws. Hornady also improved their original Spire Points by adding the Interlock ring. And have found most companies will indeed modify the basic design depending on what game the particular caliber/weight the bullet might be used on. One of the mistakes Winchester made during the early days of the Fail Safe (which started out as the Talon) was making somewhat different versions for the .308/.30-06 and .300 magnums.

All of this is one reason I tend to be skeptical when anybody proclaims one or two bullets as absolutely perfect for all-around big game hunting.

Last edited by Mule Deer; 10/19/21.

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Originally Posted by JGRaider
TRex, good luck on your hunt. You're going to love those 139's in that 6.5, guaranteed. I've shot quite a few whitetail does, a big muley buck, and loads of hogs from 50-350lbs with them and they are a killing machine.

Thanks! I'm hopeful.

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Originally Posted by beretzs
Originally Posted by Llama_Bob
The premium bullets that are good for elk etc work fine on smaller game and don't blast so many lead fragments everywhere you have to pick out (or find with your teeth). The cost difference is so small it's not worth having a second load for smaller animals. Just use A-Frames and Terminal Ascents on everything.


LB, you have a line on where the TA's are available?


Just sign up for notifications with everyone who carries them. I got plenty that way.

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Originally Posted by CRS

I can honestly say I have never lost an animal due to bullet construction. Every issue has been attributed to less than optimum shot placement.



I'm not sure I could attest to any being lost due to bullet construction, but I have had occasions where results were less than pleasing due to bullet construction. For example, I have had bullets which were too fragile, and blew up before getting to the important bits, and others which were too tough and didn't seem to expand on the way through sufficiently to kill quickly.

Of course you might retort that this is all still placement: if you know the bullet is a bit fragile, slip it through the ribs and it will blow up inside the chest, and the tough ones would have worked fine if you'd spined or brained them, but I still think that those particular bullets were, if I'm charitable, outside their optimum performance window. Those selfsame fragile bullets were fine on smaller stuff, and the tough ones on bigger and perhaps close stuff.

All that said, I am probably a bit hidebound, as I tend to stick with stuff that works for me. I have had a really good run with various fairly plain-vanilla cup and core softpoints and hollowpoints on deer and pigs and the like, in a range of calibres. Some of these have accounted for lengthy runs of clean one-shot kills - numbers of pigs one after another in a single day often enough. For bigger stuff I like some of the tougher bullets, like Lapua Mega and Woodleigh.

I like to put the animal down right there. Among the shots I like on deer as a result is one to hit the brachial plexus, just behind the shoulderblade and immediately beneath the spine. A bit high and it is a spine shot, and there's major arteries a bit lower. I'm not entirely averse to neck shots either, if the opportunity is there. I will also look at a shot above the heart into the aorta which may also, depending on angle, see involvement of the lungs or other structures. That'll usually put them down pretty quick, where a shot through the heart would see them bolt, albeit usually for a short distance.

We don't have bag limits here, so I am not bothered about losing a bit of shoulder or neck meat if it means the animal drops on the spot. I also, for much the same reason, don't particularly care if the bullet doesn't exit, as long as it has smashed a broad path through important structures before fetching up, and ideally will do so from a wide range of angles. YMMV

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I have had good experiences with monolithic bullets, and they shoot accurately in my rifles. I currently use 139 gr. Hornady GMX in my 7mm-08 and 150 Barnes TTSX in my .30-06, both in factory ammo. I really have no reason to change. I have only recovered one of those projectiles: a 139 gr. GMX from a decent whitetail buck shot directly from the front. The bullet entered at the junction of the neck and chest, tore up lungs along the way while traveling 2/3 the length of the deer, and finally lodging in the stomach. All others I have shot with these two projectiles have been pass-throughs, mostly through bone as I prefer shoulder shots. I have never hunted elk, and hope to some day, but I would not hesitate to use either of these projectiles on elk at reasonable distances.


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I’ve been hunting Wyoming for 20 years. I’ve had good luck with my 6mm Rem with 85 grain Barnes and my Whelen with 250 grain Hornady round nosed CC. I guess the all work. As long as you do your job!


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Have posted this before here, during such discussions. I have personally used the following bullets on big game:

Barnes—
Tipped Triple Shock (TTSX)
Triple Shock (TSX)
Long-Range X (LRX)
X-Bullet (original design)
XLC (blue-coated X-Bullet)
Banded Solids

Berger Hunting VLD

Cutting Edge Raptors

Fail Safe—
Both Winchester & Combined Technology

Federal—
Blue Box
Deep Shok
Red Box
Trophy Bonded Tip

Hornady—
ELD-X
GMX
InterBond
Spire Point, both Interlock & pre-Interlock
SST

Norma Oryx

North Fork Soft Point

Nosler—
AccuBond
AccuBond Long Range
Ballistic Tip
E-Tip
Partition (both turned and extruded)
Partition Gold (had a steel cup around rear core, like Fail Safe)
Solid Base
Solid Bullets

Remington—
Core-Lokt (original and post-1990)
Core-Lokt Ultra Bonded

Sierra—
GameKing
ProHunter

Speer—
Hot-Cor
Grand Slam (original and improved)
African Grand Slam Tungsten Core Solids

Swift—
A-Frame
Scirocco
Scirocco II

Trophy Bonded Bear Claw—both original and Federal versions
Trophy Bonded Sledgehammer Solid

Winchester—
Power Point
Silvertip
XP3
(As noted above, also original Fail Safes, including those called Talons)

Have also witnessed a number of other bullets being used by hunting partners,
ranging alphabetically from A-Squares to Woodleigh Weldcores.

All of them worked when used within their design parameters, whether velocity or size of game.


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I used scads of the early 30 cal 180 grain BTs in a 30/06 and also 7MM 140 grain BTs shot in a 280AI.These were from the 100 count boxes and never had any problems with either.The only mono I have shot and killed anything with was a Barnes 35 cal 180 grain X bullet.I ass shot a doe just to see what would happen and the bullet was in the skin under the front right shoulder.It had a perfect mushroom and weighed 179 grains.That was shot out of a 35 Whelen.I was impressed.


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40s-60s. Shoot whatever you got. Aught-Six, yo!

70s-80s. A few serious guys using Partitions. Everyone else, MAGNUM!!!! Oh, the Partition guys are MAGNUM! also.

90s-00s. Magnums! Short Magnums! Premium bullets!

10s. You don't need a magnum, just premium bullets. "Bullets matter more than headstamps."

'20s. [bleep] it, and come to think of it, bullets don't matter either. (Although maybe this is because ammo is so [bleep] expensive if you can even find it.)

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you are overthinking it... like every one else seems to do...

these sales and marketing guys, have everyone in the palm of their hands...

I tend to use, bullets that have worked for decades...

companies counter guys like me, by discontinue making them...


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Originally Posted by JRaw
40s-60s. Shoot whatever you got. Aught-Six, yo!

70s-80s. A few serious guys using Partitions. Everyone else, MAGNUM!!!! Oh, the Partition guys are MAGNUM! also.

90s-00s. Magnums! Short Magnums! Premium bullets!

10s. You don't need a magnum, just premium bullets. "Bullets matter more than headstamps."

'20s. [bleep] it, and come to think of it, bullets don't matter either. (Although maybe this is because ammo is so [bleep] expensive if you can even find it.)

Classic, well said.


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Originally Posted by flintlocke
Originally Posted by JRaw
40s-60s. Shoot whatever you got. Aught-Six, yo!

70s-80s. A few serious guys using Partitions. Everyone else, MAGNUM!!!! Oh, the Partition guys are MAGNUM! also.

90s-00s. Magnums! Short Magnums! Premium bullets!

10s. You don't need a magnum, just premium bullets. "Bullets matter more than headstamps."

'20s. [bleep] it, and come to think of it, bullets don't matter either. (Although maybe this is because ammo is so [bleep] expensive if you can even find it.)

Classic, well said.


Yep. Full circle here. Location, location, location. I'm back to using (mostly ) C&C - and "whatever" - subject to availability, price, and accuracy..

Have yet to find in my personal experience (YMMV) the NEED for premiums. I should try those TTSX. for their purported "eat right to the hole" thing, tho. The only other reason for me to use them would be using a caliber-light for large game - say the .260 on moose. Still, it worked just find with 140 Corelokts on elk....sample of one. Come to think of it, that 100 gr Corelokt in .243 worked just fine on that 3 year old bull moose my wife shot many years ago.

Listen to JB....

Note to self- try to not shoot the next one through the brisket with 150 gr , '06 Corelokt - no need to get excessive with those 3" exit wounds...

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

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Last edited by las; 10/20/21.

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Mule Deer narrowed it down for us, thanks.
Only other thing I would add, here in the far west Pacific slope where shots occasionally measure out to almost a hundred yards, I use only the sleekest high G-7 ballistic coefficient VLD projectiles. The difference from the old bullets to the super sleek can spell success or failure when you are shooting at almost a hundred yards. The drop at that range is several thousandths more with the old bullets. It's a wonder them ol' timers ever kilt a thing.


Well this is a fine pickle we're in, should'a listened to Joe McCarthy and George Orwell I guess.
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Granting that I hunt whitetails only, some of them get pretty big eating soybeans and corn (farm country deer), I'd rather lose a little meat than the whole deer. I started out using Sierra Gamekings and Hornady boattails, but I had some of them that were a bit too tender, even out of a mild-loaded .270, and they didn't give very good penetration, sometimes, it wasn't enough penetration, cratering on the hides and making a mess of things. Hornady's BTSP 140s were the absolute worst bullets I've ever used, Interlocks or not, they were awful..

I haven't had any issues whatsoever after switching to flat-based bullets, though. The few NBTs I've used have been quite good, too, but overall, with accuracy and everything else considered, I tend to favor Sierra Pro-Hunters now, in 130 gr. weight. They just work well on my fat Missouri deer.

I make zero claims as to them working well on anything heavier/bigger/tougher, but for a plain old easy-to-kill whitetail, I'm happy as heck with Sierra Pro-Hunters. BANG! flop, get the tractor.
As far as that goes, I get the same end results with factory Winchester PowerPoints out of a .30/30. I wish I had more experience with other critters, but deer is where I'm at, and for deer, even a Sierra CnC works well.


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