Home Forums Birds & Dogs Upland Game South Dakota 2021

The farm subsidies here and the writing off of huge numbers (expenses) each year has become a long accepted gambit of farmers.

From 1995 to 2015 SD received about $18 billion in farm subsidies. For some context, Iowa was double that at about $36 billion (see below) while overall, farmers and actual farms, have actually decreased significantly.

A lot of the subsidy business was started by Hoover and FDR in the early 1900’s to create market stability. I don’t know enough to criticize all of it but I know the “family farm” here is largely a concept of the past in our county, now made up of corporate and millionaire farmers. Some due to shrewd business minds, sure, but they were definitely given a hand (maybe two) up.

Ironically, or maybe not, many lost it all in the Democrat Carter years when interest rates hit 18% and many couldn’t cash flow their loans.

https://farm.ewg.org/

We were going to go out Friday but it was just too miserable. -8 here and -13 up in Sully Co. No thanks, I'm good. We went out Sunday instead. Found plenty of birds in tree rows and cattail sloughs. So much cover and scent in the cattails that finding downed roosters was difficult. I shot four. I'll put up some GoPro video once it imports from the camera to the computer.

For those of you, love all of you to pieces, who hijacked my season long attempt to chronicle my bird hunting:

Lots of farmers have done well. Lots of them have gone bust. Lots of them are nice people. Lots of them are a$$holes. Kinda just like the rest of us. I'm reasonably sure that farm policy is necessary in this nation to guarantee our food source; I'm also sure that everyone has a congressman or woman who gets to vote on that policy and tax policy as well. My plumber, my electrician and my HVAC guy all seem to benefit from the same tax policies. I know this also: pheasants tend to gather where access to them by hunters is restricted. People who let everyone hunt don't tend to have a lot of birds around.

I like pheasant hunting solo and I like to hunt in groups. The sport lends itself to both. The point is, its a social activity here and I wouldn't ever want to change that. We include more non hunters than hunters in our opening day tailgate party, and doing so turns them into people who would vote along side our interests should it come to that. My daughters don't hunt but the aspects of it which they see are positive ones, repeatedly so.

Finally I'll confess this: I don't like to pheasant hunt all day. I don't mind hunting antlered game all day, but pheasant hunting is a 1-2 hour diversion for me. I like to go out to where I know pheasants are, walk in there and shoot a few of them, accept the retrieves from my retrievers, have a beer or two on my way back to town and go about what is left of my day. I don't like my pheasant hunting to be ineffiecient. If I'm out that long pheasant hunting, I'm failing at it.

Good Post...

And at the end of a long day, I mostly say to myself...."Self, you are really not all that good at Pheasant hunting."

Addition: And they don't have to let everyone hunt....However, than can be civil in saying no. They can also realize that some hunting the edges is not the same as giving up the entire farm. And as Bobby mentioned, which is more than relevant...."We are their customers." And the ones that are most likely to appreciate the difficulties of their particular profession.

Ha funny.

I've marveled more than once at the lack of a public policy partnership between farming and hunting. In this state it seems to stem from a series of unfortunate incidents between farmers and the Game Fish and Parks Department, although I'm sure its more than that. Feels like the interests between the two groups are fairly well aligned as far as these types of things go.

It won't make you happy but it might help to understand this: Farmers and ranchers are price takers. By and large, esp in this state where farmer's markets (think fruit, flowers, honey etc. in the direct sales to consumers at open air facilities) are so limited and agriculture is so big and the products produced require processing on a huge scale, they don't set the price paid for their products. Thus they don't see themselves as having customers. At all. Very little to absolutely no concept of that. Only the most sophisticated of them understand the political interplay between food policy and farm programs at the macro level. They all strive to understand how to fit into the programs and maximize their personal gain from that. Its fairly natural to respond that way I suppose. So if they don't see a benefit from something, they're not generally going to do it. Part of the reason is that they rarely see anyone go out of their way for them ever.

Anyway there's a little bit of tree row action found here for you: https://imgur.com/a/uQGQx7M
I put the Go Pro on my head this time instead of on my chest and its jumpier as a result. I have a barrel attachment, I might do that next. The second bird fell dead right around the corner and was retrieved by my friend as he advanced along side the trees.

Nice video...thanks for posting...When watching them I always have a hard time visualizing distance from gun to Bird..30 Yards????

I would say the first was 25 and the second 20?

The biggest difference here is the slow change from mom ‘n pop farms with a little bit of everything to huge corporate grain farms, and then the separate livestock confinement’s. The change has been occurring longer than I’ve been alive, but I’ve been alive long enough to notice much of it. The other changes I think has been all the chemicals used — insecticides, herbicides, etc, the tiling of stream beds, and the intensity of the land use.

All of that has greatly reduced natural cover which is the key ingredient for all wildlife. Ironically, the explosive growth of livestock confinement’s, always with a few dead livestock I piled nearby, has resulted in an bald eagle population never seen before. I also think it has greatly increased the coyote population as they have a ready buffet nearly always available. Bald eagles, I have come to appreciate, are neither majestic nor proud. The coyote will at least semi-consciously feast on the gore at night, but the eagle will gorge and then rest atop the stinking, bloating carcass with its mates while squinting at you as you pass by..

Regarding pheasants and their loss of cover, the thing that steams me now is not even the roadside ditches, one of the few remaining areas of cover, are safe. Before many hens are off nests there in the spring, or the chicks are mobile enough to protect themselves, farmers are out burning many of the ditches, or cutting them. No weeds on this ground! It literally is a rape of the land and its wildlife.

The system and controlling economics of it are such that few individuals have the real freedom to do what they wish anymore but are forced into a mold and mode beyond their control. And fewer and fewer young people have any interest in farming the way it is, if they can even get started any more. With some of the best soil on the planet here — going near $20k an acre and north — it is probably all inevitable. But it’s hard for those of us who remember a different day and way.

Farmers and hunters were never "on the same team" but their was respect for each other. As hunters increasingly lost touch with "country ways" conflicts emerged. We cut off general access to our property as hunters regularly broke fences while crossing them and did not temporarily fix them and/or tell us where the break was, did not close gates or latched them improperly all of which ended up letting out livestock; excessively knocked down standing crops; shot close to and even at the house, barn, outbuildings, and livestock; used the access given to our property as a springboard to other properties creating bad feelings with our neighbors; blocked field access points by parking in them rather than the side of the gravel road or along the field road; and not having the courtesy to thank or even wave if the hunters happened to pass one of the owners on the way in or out.

Those experiences are why I post my properties and am very picky on who I let on. I have one neighbor I would kick off for the amount of corn his kids knock down but as he rents the land from me my money is not affected by the yield.

As for who gets what from taxes, realize the farmer pays a fair bit of taxes that go to help the city dweller. Property taxes, sales taxes, income taxes, and the rest of the slew of taxes one pays also hits the farmer.



You find trespassing "humorous"? And you wonder why farmers are reluctant to allow strangers on their property? You are lucky you ran into a good natured farmer, I know more than one who would have made sure you were still there when the warden or sheriff showed up.




The landowners certainly weren't "ignorant" regarding their property rights, the owners understood their rights as did the riders as they apparently knew to ask permission to cross. That the riders were denied was the perogitive of the owners. It's kind of like someone to cut across your yard to reach the other block as they don't want to walk to the end of the street, across the short block, and then down the next street. Depending on your mood, the circumstances, what you have going on in your yard at the moment, various aspects of the person asking permission, the odds of the shortcut becoming permanent, previous experiences, et al, you may or may not give permission to cross. In the case of the documentary, access probably could have been arranged ahead of time or an alternate route could have been planned. It is also very likely the scene was written in to prevent others from thinking this would be a grand adventure and create problems with others trying the same trip. Kind of like giving permission for one person to hunt your land and he brings a buddy. Later, that buddy shows up with someone else who later brings yet another. Pretty soon you no longer know who is on your land and you have to kick everyone off to get things under control. Relates back to the first paragraph.

I hear that all the time....but I continually see less and less hunters in the field. Hunting license sales are mostly getting lower. Less and less young people are getting involved in hunting..Yet, because of the acts of a few...you want to make it more difficult for individuals to access hunting.

Depends on how you look at "humorous." The humor was in that I was willing to let him call and bring the game warden. He wasn't going to have to make me do anything. I said make the call. Willing to pay the fine. Willing to wait. However, when I gave him the option, he said he didn't have time to wait around. That was the humor you obviously missed. Or perhaps didn't fit your agenda.

Five young guys facing the task of riding from the Mexico border to the Canadian..Five on an adventure most couldn't handle. An adventure not like someone cutting across your yard...but one that entailed thousands of miles on horseback. 5 who in the making of the journey found out something they didn't realize..That America is someplace special and needs to be cherished. "But no, you won't discover that on my 1/4 acre in the middle of nowhere...Go around."

Nor did the movie have anything to do with preventing others to think this would be a grand adventure...Not surprised you are willing to guess....


People who think like you are a big part of the problem..

However, this is where your "way" all eventually leads...You are either with us or against..Now we know...

Queens County Maryland has always been a place where hunting and shooting was a way of life, Perhaps one of the most historic locations for the Duck and Goose hunting traditions in the U.S. From the days of the market gunners and great upland hunting. A shooting history that still goes on today..Makes no difference if you are whoever proposed this restriction. Makes no difference if you are someone who refuses to see the bigger picture that some are trying to paint for our future. Now we know.... figured you for an elitist-and know I know...

Schrader's has been an extraordinary member of the Queen Anne County community for over 30 years...And landowners like you are part of the reason traditions are dying...





And for who are Anti Facebook...Guess where this was posted?

Sorry for the hi-jack...However, the reality is some need to see what is going on....Or there will be little need for an Upland forum.

Dude, that's hilarious. Farmers are generally wealthy, and generally pay little to no tax. Go right on thinking that. You have no idea apparently the kind of tax shelter that farming is.

The average household worth 300k and making 100k in this community pays more income and property taxes than the average farmer worth ten million bucks and making seven figures. The farmer might pay more in sales taxes but it would be close. The words "agricultural exemption" are the most used words in the South Dakota Code.

I'm the "elitist" because I believe the landowner has the right to determine who, when, and how uses their personal property? Isnt the belief that those who do not have have a right to use that which belongs to others elitist? Or, is it something else? I'll bet you are no different than that farmer/rancher when it comes to the use of your property by others. If others had the same experiences as landowners' face there would be a lot more understanding of the landowner's viewpoint. Those who feel as battue that landowners should be required to open their lands to the use of others is the other side of that "problem."

What you describe as "humorous" I see as snide and mocking. I wonder if you would have seen the same humor if the landowner threatened to flattened a couple of your tires and then said, "See you in court! Have a safe couple trips back here," after you threatened to press vandalism charges against him if he did so? Or, if someone said the same regarding their use of your property?

I should be used to the fact that others believe they have the right of access to lands they don't own but I am not. If believing the person who possesses a property has the right to determine who uses it, when, and how is somehow "elitist" then I will gladly and proudly wear that badge. The other side of that coin is that no one owns property and everyone can use it as they see fit.

You keep making up situations that I never said...Like landowners should be required to open up their lands to the use of others. What I did imply is we both have more than a passing interest in our outdoor heritage. And hunters for the most part have reason to support agricultural...However, in recognition of that support the farmer should be willing to treat us other than the enemy...Much like you. You think you have King George rights to land and Game..Thus elitist...

Since you were not there, you can assume...we will visit that again...that I was being snide or mocking. Wasn't the case..He came screaming, do you have permission to hunt here and I immediately said no. I said i wanted to hunt that little depression in this cut field but knew I was out of bounds. Then he commented about calling the Warden, still in a loud aggressive voice, and i replied then go ahead. I will sit right here and wait. Never became aggressive back...just admitted i knew what I was doing and he can take it wherever he wanted to. I could have argued back...do you think that would have been the better option?

And as far as him slicing the tires, then like me he should be willing to pay the man...Hell the last trip out there I bought a whole truck. 😂 A couple tires would be aggravating, but not insurmountable. I suspect an obliging passerby would have given me a ride into town.

Now for your additional assumption re use of my land...Have a small piece...56 acres...in one of our better Deer counties. Mostly farms around, however mine is all woods which does make it attractive to the Deer. The surrounding neighbors all post, I don't. My choice, and for the reasons stated...but again you assumed wrong and would have lost the bet. You wouldn't agree with Jag on making bets by any chance?

In addition... it is a county which is known for poaching...Who do you think does most of it? Well it isn't the visiting hunter.

Use your land as you see fit and according to the law, your choice....The fact I think you are an elitist priick in assuming most hunters have no respect for it is mine.

And your attitude is why fewer younger people are getting involved in hunting...They have better things to do than beg you for permissions to hunt the King's land.

Addition: I grew up in a time when most of my friends hunted and it was rare to find posted land. Now there are little Kings everywhere and most Kids don't hunt????

You bring up another good point. Frequently the trespasser/poacher is the neighbor or the neighbors kids/nephews/in-laws. I think over bagging is spread across the general population of hunters but my latest trespassing call involved a landowner who hired a local bar fly to run deer off of the neighboring landowner's spread and onto the landowner's property so landowner's paying customers could shoot them. It will be interesting to see if the laws of agency apply to a trespassing case but in any event, looks like motives of profit caused a landowner to act outside the law. Shocking, isn't it?

I was born into it on my Mothers side, and more than a few game laws are ignored under the pretense of this place is mine...And I would expect it would be rare for the TIP line to ring all that often....McDonald on McDonald....

Anyone shooting any Pheasants?

Haven't been out since Sunday...she'd be pretty fresh out there today. Present temperature of +2 and winds gone down to 19 mph. I can wait for nicer days.

What is your opinion on flushing Birds out of their protective cover late in the day, with those temps or worse?

The frigid day, the 27th, we ventured into SD, I wasn’t feeling perfectly fit. After getting home, it went downward. Seems many in my family after getting together for Christmas got the Corona. It’s been two weeks, and despite only 2 or 3 days of being acutely ill, I still have absolutely no energy. I just realized this is why I was whiffing on many of my shots that day. I’m sticking with it.

Yesterday and today we had 30 mph gales with single digit temps, so WC’s a good deal below “0”. Lovely.

Plus a memorial service in the eastern part of the state this weekend.

My pheasant season is fini..

Battue, in this kind of weather, they fly right back to similar cover. Roosters compete with the hens for cover in hard weather. So, whether from time to time, it results in greater or less hen mortality is arguable.

In general, cover is is at a premium for all wildlife in winter.

Edit to add: we don’t have enough cover in the Heartland!

I think the birds generally settle right back into cover, they seem to have to go out of it to eat twice a day anyway. We would not be pushing them out of evening roosts by and large. its more of a pushing them out of loafing cover at that time of day. They're going to generally be on their way out anyway.