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IMR 4227 will it break down or degrade? #16556947 10/24/21
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bkraft Offline OP
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I use 9 grains of 4227 under a 45-grain soft point bullet lit off by a WW small pistol primer in my Zastava 22 Hornet. This load gets me an inch or slightly less at 100 yds(my fault not the rifles). Yesterday I was shooting some loads that had been loaded for at least five years and they were all shooting at least a foot low. I checked the scope and rings all were tight, Could that powder have degraded that much?
Or do I have another problem?


bkraft

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Re: IMR 4227 will it break down or degrade? [Re: bkraft] #16556974 10/24/21
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10gaugemag Offline
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How long has it been since you last shot the rifle/load combination?

Is it shooting the same sized groups as before?


If so adjust the scope and keep shooting.

Last edited by 10gaugemag; 10/24/21.

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Re: IMR 4227 will it break down or degrade? [Re: bkraft] #16556991 10/24/21
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Would be interesting to chrono and compare to previous velocity.

DF

Re: IMR 4227 will it break down or degrade? [Re: Dirtfarmer] #16557124 10/24/21
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Originally Posted by Dirtfarmer
Would be interesting to chrono and compare to previous velocity.

DF


Now now don’t bring up a chronograph. We all know that it is just impossible that people could think about spending 100-150 bucks on one is just too damn expensive. Plus the fact if they did there wouldn’t be all these threads about why my load isn’t working, why the ejector marks or the biggy Is this load safe.



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Re: IMR 4227 will it break down or degrade? [Re: bkraft] #16557143 10/24/21
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I don’t know about in loaded ammunition......but, one of the greatest traumatic events of my life was recently throwing away about 1/2 can of 4227 about 2 months ago! 🤬 memtb


You should not use a rifle that will kill an animal when everything goes right; you should use one that will do the job when everything goes wrong." -Bob Hagel

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Re: IMR 4227 will it break down or degrade? [Re: bkraft] #16557183 10/24/21
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Scopes do get bent. Does not take much to change POI 12" at 100 yards.

Re: IMR 4227 will it break down or degrade? [Re: memtb] #16557184 10/24/21
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Originally Posted by memtb
I don’t know about in loaded ammunition......but, one of the greatest traumatic events of my life was recently throwing away about 1/2 can of 4227 about 2 months ago! 🤬 memtb

Why did you toss it?

Re: IMR 4227 will it break down or degrade? [Re: bkraft] #16557191 10/24/21
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Groups were crap more like a pattern than a group. One thing I left out was that I did carry them around in my truck and they were subject to some rough two-track type roads.
What is this chronograph of which you speak?


bkraft

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Re: IMR 4227 will it break down or degrade? [Re: Dirtfarmer] #16557194 10/24/21
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Originally Posted by Dirtfarmer
Would be interesting to chrono and compare to previous velocity.

DF



Here lies the keys to the kingdom!

Re: IMR 4227 will it break down or degrade? [Re: bkraft] #16557227 10/24/21
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Originally Posted by bkraft
Groups were crap more like a pattern than a group. One thing I left out was that I did carry them around in my truck and they were subject to some rough two-track type roads.
What is this chronograph of which you speak?


Cheap but useful.

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1020438152

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Re: IMR 4227 will it break down or degrade? [Re: bkraft] #16557303 10/24/21
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Are the guard screws tight? Scope might also be the problem.

Re: IMR 4227 will it break down or degrade? [Re: bkraft] #16557631 10/24/21
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To answer the original question. IMR 4227 is gunpowder. Gunpowder can "breakdown or degrade."


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Re: IMR 4227 will it break down or degrade? [Re: bkraft] #16557660 10/24/21
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Bullets may have corroded to the case neck take your seating die and ever so slightly push them about a thousands deeper to break free of the corrosion and shoot them and see if this helps.



I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
Re: IMR 4227 will it break down or degrade? [Re: bkraft] #16557875 10/24/21
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jwall Offline
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I started handloading in 1974.

In all that time I’ve ONLY had 1 (one) can (metal) to degrade and yield the
Red dust.

To the best of my ‘memory’ it was IMR 4831 in their yellow/white can.

NOTE- it was an OLD can of powder.

IMO powder properly stored lasts a LONG time.


** I have had one instance of ‘ neck weld ‘ so that can happen too.

Jerry


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Re: IMR 4227 will it break down or degrade? [Re: Paul39] #16558308 10/24/21
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Originally Posted by Paul39
Originally Posted by memtb
I don’t know about in loaded ammunition......but, one of the greatest traumatic events of my life was recently throwing away about 1/2 can of 4227 about 2 months ago! 🤬 memtb

Why did you toss it?



It was last used in the mid- ‘80’s. I opened it a while back......dusty, rust colored, and didn’t smell like “fresh” powder! I’m pretty sure it was history! memtb


You should not use a rifle that will kill an animal when everything goes right; you should use one that will do the job when everything goes wrong." -Bob Hagel

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Re: IMR 4227 will it break down or degrade? [Re: memtb] #16559935 10/25/21
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I've had a few go bad.

I still have surplus H-4831 that I bought in the '60's. It came in paper bags. The bags got brittle and I transferred the powder to empty powder cans, relabeled with Magic Marker. It still smells good, shoots good. It was surplus when I got it. No telling how old it actually is. It's been in climate controlled storage, which probably helps.

DF

Re: IMR 4227 will it break down or degrade? [Re: bkraft] #16560090 10/25/21
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How long swears they in your truck? Exposed to temperature extremes? that would be my first guess to the issue.

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Re: IMR 4227 will it break down or degrade? [Re: bkraft] #16560820 10/25/21
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It would be extremely difficult to pull a bullet and have a look wouldn’t it

Re: IMR 4227 will it break down or degrade? [Re: bkraft] #16560831 10/25/21
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Yeah it would be hard to pull a bullet actually as I only had 8, to begin with and shot them all fiddling with the scope.


bkraft

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Re: IMR 4227 will it break down or degrade? [Re: bkraft] #16561985 10/25/21
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load some more with same can, don't drive them around, and shoot for group


Originally Posted by jorgeI
...Actually Sycamore, you are sort of right....
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