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Re: This just in, ultimate cartridge [Re: jwall] #16556328 10/23/21
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Originally Posted by jwall
Dan

I guess I'm just SOL...simply out of luck. lol

I've never had the privilege of hunting the 257 Rob. It's plumb amazing I ever killed anything!


Jerry

I actually owned one for a short time. In the late 70s post 1976 I had a 200th year M 77 in 257 Rob.
1. I didn't know anything about the cartridge and let it get away.
2. YES, the 200 th year of American Liberty blush


I have a 200th Year of American Liberty in .257 Roberts. It’s not going anywhere except deer hunting with me.


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Re: This just in, ultimate cartridge [Re: WAM] #16556763 10/24/21
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Alllright !

I wish I'd known.


Jerry


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Re: This just in, ultimate cartridge [Re: jwall] #16556883 10/24/21
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Jerry,

Mine is well worn from use, not abuse. It belonged to a USMC buddy of mine who passed away a few years ago. He sold me that rifle along with a couple other firearms when he stopped rifle hunting. I’ll treasure it in his memory. It’s a real tack driver with 100 gr TTSX or BT with a healthy dose of Ramshot Hunter.

Cheers


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Re: This just in, ultimate cartridge [Re: RiverRider] #16556946 10/24/21
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Originally Posted by RiverRider
[ John, maybe it would be interesting to talk about how many articles you would have published over your lifetime if you only wrote about "cartridges that won't gitterdone."

I'd bet that about 99% of the kills made the last ten years could have easily been made with cartridges that originated well over 100 years ago.


Interesting question!

Out of curiosity I just added up the cartridges I've used on big game that were originally developed (sometimes as an almost identical round) by the 1920s. May have forgotten a couple, but there turned out to be 21:

.22 Hornet, .22-250, 6mm Remington (6x57 Mauser), .250-3000 Savage, .257 Roberts, .25-06, 6.5x54 Mannlicher-Schoenauer, 6.5x55 Norwegian-Swedish, 6.5x57R Mauser, .270 Winchester, 7x57, .280 Remington (7x64 Brenneke), .30-30, .300 Savage, .30-40 Krag, .30-06, .35 Remington, 9.3x62 Mauser, .375 H&H, .416 Rigby, .45-70 Springfield.

In fact the last big game animal I took, on October 9th, was a pronghorn buck slain with my Sauer 6.5x57R drilling. The cartridge appeared soon after the 6.5x55, in the early 1890s.

Last edited by Mule Deer; 10/24/21.

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Re: This just in, ultimate cartridge [Re: Mule Deer] #16557074 10/24/21
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How about the 300 Savage?


"In the real world, think of the 6.5 Creedmoor as the modernized/standardized/optimized version of the 6.5x55/.260." John Barsness 2019
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Re: This just in, ultimate cartridge [Re: Mule Deer] #16557202 10/24/21
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Interesting.


You're Welcome At My Fire Anytime



Re: This just in, ultimate cartridge [Re: mathman] #16557538 10/24/21
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Originally Posted by mathman
How about the 300 Savage?


Thanks for the reminder! Edited the post....

Am sure there are probably more I forgot.


“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.”
John Steinbeck
Re: This just in, ultimate cartridge [Re: Mule Deer] #16557552 10/24/21
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BTW, I believe you once said (with respect to the 250 Savage) that about 33 grains of several mid rate powders (Varget being an example) under a 100 grain bullet would produce what Charles Newton had intended. My 700 Classic strongly agrees.

Ordinarily I use a bit stiffer charge of H4895 but I've been short on that and I have a good supply of Varget. Dropping from 2950 to 2800 fps doesn't bother me a bit. The 100 grain Ballistic Tip is still going plenty fast at 300 yards.


"In the real world, think of the 6.5 Creedmoor as the modernized/standardized/optimized version of the 6.5x55/.260." John Barsness 2019
Re: This just in, ultimate cartridge [Re: Mule Deer] #16557571 10/24/21
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Originally Posted by Mule Deer

Out of curiosity I just added up the cartridges I've used on big game that were originally developed (sometimes as an almost identical round) by the 1920s. May have forgotten a couple, but there turned out to be 19:

.22 Hornet, .22-250, 6mm Remington, .250-3000 Savage, .257 Roberts, .25-06, 6.5x54 Mannlicher-Schoenauer, 6.5x55 Norwegian-Swedish, 6.5x57R Mauser, .270 Winchester, 7x57, .280 Remington (7x64 Breknneke), .30-30, .300 Savage,.35 Remington, 9.3x62 Mauser, .375 H&H, .416 Rigby, .45-70 Springfield.



.22-250? I may be wrong but I didn't think it was that old.

I'd have to think about it but off the top of my head I believe I have killed big game with 12 rounds of 1920's vintage or earlier.
I like them.



Re: This just in, ultimate cartridge [Re: Desertranger] #16557625 10/24/21
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My list is not nearly so long: 30-30 (deer, elk, antelope), 25-06 (deer), 45/70 (elk), 270 (deer, elk, moose). I own quite a few other oldies but don't think I've killed big game with any of them.


ttpoz

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Re: This just in, ultimate cartridge [Re: T_Inman] #16557693 10/24/21
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T Inman,

The .250 Savage was introduced just before World War One, and apparently quite a few people necked it down to .22 shortly afterward, sometimes with slight variations, though the first wildcatter to promote it much was Jerry Gebby, who trademarked the name .22 Varminter in 1937. Browning chambered it in factory rifles in 1963, while it was still a wildcat, but it wasn't until 1965 that Remington adopted it a factory round and started making ammunition.

Variations on the .257 Roberts (the 7x57 necked down) also appeared long before Remington made it factory round in 1934. Evidently several wildcatters came up with versions in the 1920s, though Ned Roberts usually gets the historical credit. His cartridge (which he called the .25 Roberts) had a slightly different shoulder angle than Remington's version.

The first person to promote a wildcat usually gets the credit for developing it, even though the basic is a very old one. The 6x57 Mauser, for instance, appeared as a commercial hunting round in the 1890s, but Warren Page (Field & Stream's shooting columnist) "developed" a very similar wildcat round in the mid-20th century. Remington eventually introduced their version as the .244 Remington in the mid-1950s, with a -12 rifling twist which was too slow to always stabilize commercial 100-grain bullets. But the name got changed to the 6mm Remington a few years later when Remington started putting a 1-9 twist in the barrels.


“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.”
John Steinbeck
Re: This just in, ultimate cartridge [Re: ttpoz] #16557818 10/24/21
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My eldest cartridges are

6.5X55 (Swede), 30-06, & 270 Win.

NO flies on any of them.

Jerry


jwall- *** 3100 guy***

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Speed is Trajectory's Friend !!
Re: This just in, ultimate cartridge [Re: Desertranger] #16557894 10/24/21
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Jerry,
I qualified the statement. Survival. How many rifle rounds can you carry? If you’ll remember one of the reasons for adopting the 223 was the number a soldier could carry compared to the 308.
John


I am the way, the truth, and the life: no one comes to the Father but by me. John 14:6
Re: This just in, ultimate cartridge [Re: Mule Deer] #16557942 10/24/21
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Originally Posted by Mule Deer
Originally Posted by RiverRider
[ John, maybe it would be interesting to talk about how many articles you would have published over your lifetime if you only wrote about "cartridges that won't gitterdone."

I'd bet that about 99% of the kills made the last ten years could have easily been made with cartridges that originated well over 100 years ago.


Interesting question!

Out of curiosity I just added up the cartridges I've used on big game that were originally developed (sometimes as an almost identical round) by the 1920s. May have forgotten a couple, but there turned out to be 19:

.22 Hornet, .22-250, 6mm Remington, .250-3000 Savage, .257 Roberts, .25-06, 6.5x54 Mannlicher-Schoenauer, 6.5x55 Norwegian-Swedish, 6.5x57R Mauser, .270 Winchester, 7x57, .280 Remington (7x64 Breknneke), .30-30, .300 Savage,.35 Remington, 9.3x62 Mauser, .375 H&H, .416 Rigby, .45-70 Springfield.

In fact the last big game animal I took, on October 9th, was a pronghorn buck slain with my Sauer 6.5x57R drilling. The cartridge appeared just after the 6.5x55, in the early 1890s.



No 30/06???

Re: This just in, ultimate cartridge [Re: John_Boy] #16557961 10/24/21
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Originally Posted by John_Boy
Jerry,
I qualified the statement. Survival. How many rifle rounds can you carry? If you’ll remember one of the reasons for adopting the 223 was the number a soldier could carry compared to the 308.
John


Yes I understand. UIM the military objective also changed some.

Instead of killing 1, by wounding 1 then 2 would help recover the 1
thereby reducing the enemy 3 instead of just 1.


ATST for hunting the game listed, the 22lr isn’t legal.

Jerry


jwall- *** 3100 guy***

A Flat Trajectory is Never a Handicap

Speed is Trajectory's Friend !!
Re: This just in, ultimate cartridge [Re: southtexas] #16557991 10/24/21
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Originally Posted by southtexas
Originally Posted by Mule Deer
Originally Posted by RiverRider
[ John, maybe it would be interesting to talk about how many articles you would have published over your lifetime if you only wrote about "cartridges that won't gitterdone."

I'd bet that about 99% of the kills made the last ten years could have easily been made with cartridges that originated well over 100 years ago.


Interesting question!

Out of curiosity I just added up the cartridges I've used on big game that were originally developed (sometimes as an almost identical round) by the 1920s. May have forgotten a couple, but there turned out to be 19:

.22 Hornet, .22-250, 6mm Remington, .250-3000 Savage, .257 Roberts, .25-06, 6.5x54 Mannlicher-Schoenauer, 6.5x55 Norwegian-Swedish, 6.5x57R Mauser, .270 Winchester, 7x57, .280 Remington (7x64 Breknneke), .30-30, .300 Savage,.35 Remington, 9.3x62 Mauser, .375 H&H, .416 Rigby, .45-70 Springfield.

In fact the last big game animal I took, on October 9th, was a pronghorn buck slain with my Sauer 6.5x57R drilling. The cartridge appeared just after the 6.5x55, in the early 1890s.



No 30/06???


Duh! I forgot the most obvious--and have taken more big game with the .30-06 than any other cartridge. Fixed it.


“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.”
John Steinbeck
Re: This just in, ultimate cartridge [Re: Desertranger] #16558174 10/24/21
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Yeah, it's not new, but for all around use I doubt you can improve on the 30-06. Faster, more powerful, longer bullets, and so on........all are available.

But for the combination of length, weight, power vs recoil, span of bullet weights and types, and trajectory ,with each category being rated on a scale of 1-10 and then the total of each category being added up, I think the 30-06 is the single best big game cartridge ever designed. I can't see much room to improve on it without getting lower ratings (sometimes a lot lower) in one of the other categories.

Last edited by szihn; 10/24/21.
Re: This just in, ultimate cartridge [Re: SuperCub] #16558184 10/24/21
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Originally Posted by SuperCub
Originally Posted by Llama_Bob
Originally Posted by SuperCub
Originally Posted by Llama_Bob
For a true long action, 26 Nosler is hard to beat.


There's always something faster. Sometimes fast enough is fast enough. smile

Sure - that's why the short action cartridges exist.


I've never had any trouble carrying a long action 257Roberts. You should get that condition checked out. smile


If you want to carry a heavier, less effective rifle that's a personal problem. Of course, if it's not heavy and ineffective enough there are ways to make it more of both.

Re: This just in, ultimate cartridge [Re: szihn] #16558190 10/24/21
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Originally Posted by szihn
Yeah, it's not new, but for all around use I doubt you can improve on the 30-06.


That's trivial - 300 WSM. Faster, more accurate, reloads better, all around superior. The only people cheering for the .30-06 are the ignorant, the nostalgia clowns, and jokers who forget their ammo and think there's some -30-06 for sale somewhere (there's not).

Re: This just in, ultimate cartridge [Re: Desertranger] #16558211 10/24/21
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Is it not possible for you to have a different opinion that someone else without calling them names? Or, more likely, are your just trolling?

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