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Re: For Believers: Is the Biblical Beast [Re: K22] #16564185 10/26/21
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Originally Posted by K22
Hhmmmm!!!!!

Of them which thou gavest me have I lost none.”




"While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have
kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled." (John 17:12)


"Keep thy heart with all diligence; for out of it are the issues of life." (Prov 4:23)

Brother Keith

BP-B2

Re: For Believers: Is the Biblical Beast [Re: Happy_Camper] #16564355 10/26/21
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Originally Posted by Muffin
REV 1:1 '...The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show to His bond-servants, the things which must soon take place; and He sent and communicated it by His angel to His bond-servant John...'

If GOD cannot tell time, then HE is not GOD.

If the prophecy said SOON and it did not happen SOON then it was not prophecy.

IMHO

I certainly don't know all of the Bible after decades of reading it. One thing I am certain of, no two things.

1. There are things that used to be a mystery and seemed contradictory, that are now clear after understanding rules for interpretation and the bigger picture.
2. If there's something in the Bible that I don't understand, it's because it's a Divinely inspired Book and I am just a simple man with many limitations.

I will post your chosen verse in context so we can see a little more of the picture of these puzzle pieces.

Revelation chapter 1

"1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must [b]shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:[/b]

2 Who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw.

3 Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand.

4 John to the seven churches which are in Asia: Grace be unto you, and peace, from him which is, and which was, and which is to come; and from the seven Spirits which are before his throne;

5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,

6 And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.

9 I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ.

10 I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet,

11 Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea.

12 And I turned to see the voice that spake with me. And being turned, I saw seven golden candlesticks;

13 And in the midst of the seven candlesticks one like unto the Son of man, clothed with a garment down to the foot, and girt about the paps with a golden girdle.

14 His head and his hairs were white like wool, as white as snow; and his eyes were as a flame of fire;

15 And his feet like unto fine brass, as if they burned in a furnace; and his voice as the sound of many waters.

16 And he had in his right hand seven stars: and out of his mouth went a sharp twoedged sword: and his countenance was as the sun shineth in his strength.

17 And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last:

18 I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.

19 Write the things which thou hast seen, and the things which are, and the things which shall be hereafter;

20 The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches."

NOTE:." This he has seen....which are.....which shall be hereafter."
Three tenses are described. No time frame other than those are mentioned. One thing seems clear is that the churches described in the first three chapters are "shortly come to pass"...were to be judged. Those were not 7 ages, but rather literal churches established by apostles and the assisting pastors who followed them. The first verse you refered to does not necessarily mean that God was talking about that time period after the thousand year rebellion when the devil would be released from hell for a short season. I see the statement as a significant charge for all believers to note how the early churches were judged and given as good and bad examples to learn from.

See chapter 4
"After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter."

Another future event is given. It occurs after those churches existed. It is future from John's perspective. The time issue is not contradictory. Not every event of the Revelation was supposed to happen that afternoon. Later in the book is the thousand year reign of Christ and He lets the devil out of prison. The devil acts according to his nature and is cast into the lake of fire forever.

Can you see what the Bible is talking about time wise in regards to the first passage? Is that clearer now muffin?


Man's Greatest Need.... because life is short.
If something happened today, Are you 100% sure that you will go to heaven ?
You can be:
https://youtu.be/3BCl_qkqVVo

AND
https://youtu.be/Wh1VU-_OF98


Re: For Believers: Is the Biblical Beast [Re: Happy_Camper] #16564387 10/26/21
Joined: Nov 2015
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Tarbe Offline
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Originally Posted by Happy_Camper
Originally Posted by Muffin
REV 1:1 '...The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show to His bond-servants, the things which must soon take place; and He sent and communicated it by His angel to His bond-servant John...'

If GOD cannot tell time, then HE is not GOD.

If the prophecy said SOON and it did not happen SOON then it was not prophecy.

IMHO

I certainly don't know all of the Bible after decades of reading it. One thing I am certain of, no two things.

1. There are things that used to be a mystery and seemed contradictory, that are now clear after understanding rules for interpretation and the bigger picture.
2. If there's something in the Bible that I don't understand, it's because it's a Divinely inspired Book and I am just a simple man with many limitations.

I will post your chosen verse in context so we can see a little more of the picture of these puzzle pieces.

Revelation chapter 1

"1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must [b]shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:[/b]

2 Who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw.

3 Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand.

4 John to the seven churches which are in Asia: Grace be unto you, and peace, from him which is, and which was, and which is to come; and from the seven Spirits which are before his throne;

5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,

6 And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.

9 I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ.

10 I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet,

11 Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea.

12 And I turned to see the voice that spake with me. And being turned, I saw seven golden candlesticks;

13 And in the midst of the seven candlesticks one like unto the Son of man, clothed with a garment down to the foot, and girt about the paps with a golden girdle.

14 His head and his hairs were white like wool, as white as snow; and his eyes were as a flame of fire;

15 And his feet like unto fine brass, as if they burned in a furnace; and his voice as the sound of many waters.

16 And he had in his right hand seven stars: and out of his mouth went a sharp twoedged sword: and his countenance was as the sun shineth in his strength.

17 And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last:

18 I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.

19 Write the things which thou hast seen, and the things which are, and the things which shall be hereafter;

20 The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches."

NOTE:." This he has seen....which are.....which shall be hereafter."
Three tenses are described. No time frame other than those are mentioned. One thing seems clear is that the churches described in the first three chapters are "shortly come to pass"...were to be judged. Those were not 7 ages, but rather literal churches established by apostles and the assisting pastors who followed them. The first verse you refered to does not necessarily mean that God was talking about that time period after the thousand year rebellion when the devil would be released from hell for a short season. I see the statement as a significant charge for all believers to note how the early churches were judged and given as good and bad examples to learn from.

See chapter 4
"After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter."

Another future event is given. It occurs after those churches existed. It is future from John's perspective. The time issue is not contradictory. Not every event of the Revelation was supposed to happen that afternoon. Later in the book is the thousand year reign of Christ and He lets the devil out of prison. The devil acts according to his nature and is cast into the lake of fire forever.

Can you see what the Bible is talking about time wise in regards to the first passage? Is that clearer now muffin?


Very clear to me (just like the Olivet Discourse).

The Revelation was written to real people, in the real churches named in Asia Minor, and they were told (in cryptic, apocryphal language) what was going to happen in their lifetimes...soon.

And the fulfillment happened in 70AD.

Any other interpretation makes the scriptures nothing but a deception to those who originally received the writings.

Just like in the Olivet Discourse, where Jesus answers the question regarding "the end" and he tells his audience it will happen to that generation...before they are all dead.

Of course, C.S. Lewis thought Jesus was a false prophet....that he was wrong about his second coming!

I say Lewis was wrong about the nature of the second coming....so he cannot possibly be correct about the timing!

Just like the first century Jews were wrong about the nature of the first coming...and (for the most part) missed it.

Last edited by Tarbe; 10/26/21.

USMC 0351
Re: For Believers: Is the Biblical Beast [Re: Tarbe] #16564447 10/26/21
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Muffin Offline
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Originally Posted by Tarbe
Originally Posted by Happy_Camper
Originally Posted by Muffin
REV 1:1 '...The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show to His bond-servants, the things which must soon take place; and He sent and communicated it by His angel to His bond-servant John...'

If GOD cannot tell time, then HE is not GOD.

If the prophecy said SOON and it did not happen SOON then it was not prophecy.

IMHO

I certainly don't know all of the Bible after decades of reading it. One thing I am certain of, no two things.

1. There are things that used to be a mystery and seemed contradictory, that are now clear after understanding rules for interpretation and the bigger picture.
2. If there's something in the Bible that I don't understand, it's because it's a Divinely inspired Book and I am just a simple man with many limitations.

I will post your chosen verse in context so we can see a little more of the picture of these puzzle pieces.

Revelation chapter 1

"1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must [b]shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:[/b]

2 Who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw.

3 Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand.

4 John to the seven churches which are in Asia: Grace be unto you, and peace, from him which is, and which was, and which is to come; and from the seven Spirits which are before his throne;

5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,

6 And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.

9 I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ.

10 I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet,

11 Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea.

12 And I turned to see the voice that spake with me. And being turned, I saw seven golden candlesticks;

13 And in the midst of the seven candlesticks one like unto the Son of man, clothed with a garment down to the foot, and girt about the paps with a golden girdle.

14 His head and his hairs were white like wool, as white as snow; and his eyes were as a flame of fire;

15 And his feet like unto fine brass, as if they burned in a furnace; and his voice as the sound of many waters.

16 And he had in his right hand seven stars: and out of his mouth went a sharp twoedged sword: and his countenance was as the sun shineth in his strength.

17 And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last:

18 I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.

19 Write the things which thou hast seen, and the things which are, and the things which shall be hereafter;

20 The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches."

NOTE:." This he has seen....which are.....which shall be hereafter."
Three tenses are described. No time frame other than those are mentioned. One thing seems clear is that the churches described in the first three chapters are "shortly come to pass"...were to be judged. Those were not 7 ages, but rather literal churches established by apostles and the assisting pastors who followed them. The first verse you refered to does not necessarily mean that God was talking about that time period after the thousand year rebellion when the devil would be released from hell for a short season. I see the statement as a significant charge for all believers to note how the early churches were judged and given as good and bad examples to learn from.

See chapter 4
"After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter."

Another future event is given. It occurs after those churches existed. It is future from John's perspective. The time issue is not contradictory. Not every event of the Revelation was supposed to happen that afternoon. Later in the book is the thousand year reign of Christ and He lets the devil out of prison. The devil acts according to his nature and is cast into the lake of fire forever.

Can you see what the Bible is talking about time wise in regards to the first passage? Is that clearer now muffin?


Very clear to me (just like the Olivet Discourse).

The Revelation was written to real people, in the real churches named in Asia Minor, and they were told (in cryptic, apocryphal language) what was going to happen in their lifetimes...soon.

And the fulfillment happened in 70AD.

Any other interpretation makes the scriptures nothing but a deception to those who originally received the writings.

Just like in the Olivet Discourse, where Jesus answers the question regarding "the end" and he tells his audience it will happen to that generation...before they are all dead.

Of course, C.S. Lewis thought Jesus was a false prophet....that he was wrong about his second coming!

I say Lewis was wrong about the nature of the second coming....so he cannot possibly be correct about the timing!

Just like the first century Jews were wrong about the nature of the first coming...and (for the most part) missed it.


Semper fi..........

Re: For Believers: Is the Biblical Beast [Re: K22] #16564730 10/26/21
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RickyD Offline
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Originally Posted by K22
Originally Posted by RickyD
Eternity is bereft of time but follow the Prophecies God has given us. They show the eternal knowledge of God.And maybe even what might come next
It is getting close to the end, I believe.





Define......"the end".

Read Revelation.


We may know the time Ben Carson lied, but does anyone know the time Hillary Clinton told the truth?

Immersing oneself in progressive lieberalism is no different than bathing in the sewage of Hell.
IC-A

Re: For Believers: Is the Biblical Beast [Re: RickyD] #16565056 10/26/21
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K22 Offline
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Originally Posted by RickyD
Originally Posted by K22
Originally Posted by RickyD
Eternity is bereft of time but follow the Prophecies God has given us. They show the eternal knowledge of God.And maybe even what might come next
It is getting close to the end, I believe.





Define......"the end".

Read Revelation.



I have, many times, so I'll ask that question again.
Define .............the end. The end of what!

Re: For Believers: Is the Biblical Beast [Re: Tarbe] #16565550 10/26/21
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Happy_Camper Offline
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Originally Posted by Tarbe
Originally Posted by Happy_Camper
Originally Posted by Muffin
REV 1:1 '...The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show to His bond-servants, the things which must soon take place; and He sent and communicated it by His angel to His bond-servant John...'

If GOD cannot tell time, then HE is not GOD.

If the prophecy said SOON and it did not happen SOON then it was not prophecy.

IMHO

I certainly don't know all of the Bible after decades of reading it. One thing I am certain of, no two things.

1. There are things that used to be a mystery and seemed contradictory, that are now clear after understanding rules for interpretation and the bigger picture.
2. If there's something in the Bible that I don't understand, it's because it's a Divinely inspired Book and I am just a simple man with many limitations.

I will post your chosen verse in context so we can see a little more of the picture of these puzzle pieces.

Revelation chapter 1

"1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must [b]shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:[/b]

2 Who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw.

3 Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand.

4 John to the seven churches which are in Asia: Grace be unto you, and peace, from him which is, and which was, and which is to come; and from the seven Spirits which are before his throne;

5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,

6 And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.

9 I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ.

10 I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet,

11 Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea.

12 And I turned to see the voice that spake with me. And being turned, I saw seven golden candlesticks;

13 And in the midst of the seven candlesticks one like unto the Son of man, clothed with a garment down to the foot, and girt about the paps with a golden girdle.

14 His head and his hairs were white like wool, as white as snow; and his eyes were as a flame of fire;

15 And his feet like unto fine brass, as if they burned in a furnace; and his voice as the sound of many waters.

16 And he had in his right hand seven stars: and out of his mouth went a sharp twoedged sword: and his countenance was as the sun shineth in his strength.

17 And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last:

18 I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.

19 Write the things which thou hast seen, and the things which are, and the things which shall be hereafter;

20 The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches."

NOTE:." This he has seen....which are.....which shall be hereafter."
Three tenses are described. No time frame other than those are mentioned. One thing seems clear is that the churches described in the first three chapters are "shortly come to pass"...were to be judged. Those were not 7 ages, but rather literal churches established by apostles and the assisting pastors who followed them. The first verse you refered to does not necessarily mean that God was talking about that time period after the thousand year rebellion when the devil would be released from hell for a short season. I see the statement as a significant charge for all believers to note how the early churches were judged and given as good and bad examples to learn from.

See chapter 4
"After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter."

Another future event is given. It occurs after those churches existed. It is future from John's perspective. The time issue is not contradictory. Not every event of the Revelation was supposed to happen that afternoon. Later in the book is the thousand year reign of Christ and He lets the devil out of prison. The devil acts according to his nature and is cast into the lake of fire forever.

Can you see what the Bible is talking about time wise in regards to the first passage? Is that clearer now muffin?


Very clear to me (just like the Olivet Discourse).

The Revelation was written to real people, in the real churches named in Asia Minor, and they were told (in cryptic, apocryphal language) what was going to happen in their lifetimes...soon.

And the fulfillment happened in 70AD.

Any other interpretation makes the scriptures nothing but a deception to those who originally received the writings.

Just like in the Olivet Discourse, where Jesus answers the question regarding "the end" and he tells his audience it will happen to that generation...before they are all dead.

Of course, C.S. Lewis thought Jesus was a false prophet....that he was wrong about his second coming!

I say Lewis was wrong about the nature of the second coming....so he cannot possibly be correct about the timing!

Just like the first century Jews were wrong about the nature of the first coming...and (for the most part) missed it.

I never looked to CS Lewis for biblical insight. He was friends with some great writers like JRR Tolkien though.

As to many prophesies, there is a double fulfillment. Sometimes there are near as well as far prophesies.
I don't worry much if someone holds different views on prophesy, but see a bit more every time I read the Bible through.

The abomination of desolation I think you are referring to in 70AD had an immediate fulfillment, but there's more yet to come when the Antichrist will set up his throne in the new temple yet to be built.

Are you Prederist?


Man's Greatest Need.... because life is short.
If something happened today, Are you 100% sure that you will go to heaven ?
You can be:
https://youtu.be/3BCl_qkqVVo

AND
https://youtu.be/Wh1VU-_OF98


Re: For Believers: Is the Biblical Beast [Re: K22] #16565614 10/26/21
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 969
Tarbe Offline
Campfire Regular
Offline
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Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 969
Originally Posted by K22
Originally Posted by RickyD
Originally Posted by K22
Originally Posted by RickyD
Eternity is bereft of time but follow the Prophecies God has given us. They show the eternal knowledge of God.And maybe even what might come next
It is getting close to the end, I believe.





Define......"the end".

Read Revelation.



I have, many times, so I'll ask that question again.
Define .............the end. The end of what!


The end of the Mosaic Covenant and its sacrificial system.

The sacrifice in the Temple on the Altar was the centerpiece of the practice of the Jews. And it could only be performed by the Levitical Priests. The same guys who were also the only ones authorized to collect Tithes (hint, hint).

The Temple is gone and the genealogical records with it...so no Altar and no Levites.


Tim


USMC 0351
Re: For Believers: Is the Biblical Beast [Re: Happy_Camper] #16565617 10/26/21
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 969
Tarbe Offline
Campfire Regular
Offline
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Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 969
Originally Posted by Happy_Camper
Originally Posted by Tarbe
Originally Posted by Happy_Camper
Originally Posted by Muffin
REV 1:1 '...The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show to His bond-servants, the things which must soon take place; and He sent and communicated it by His angel to His bond-servant John...'

If GOD cannot tell time, then HE is not GOD.

If the prophecy said SOON and it did not happen SOON then it was not prophecy.

IMHO

I certainly don't know all of the Bible after decades of reading it. One thing I am certain of, no two things.

1. There are things that used to be a mystery and seemed contradictory, that are now clear after understanding rules for interpretation and the bigger picture.
2. If there's something in the Bible that I don't understand, it's because it's a Divinely inspired Book and I am just a simple man with many limitations.

I will post your chosen verse in context so we can see a little more of the picture of these puzzle pieces.

Revelation chapter 1

"1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must [b]shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:[/b]

2 Who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw.

3 Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand.

4 John to the seven churches which are in Asia: Grace be unto you, and peace, from him which is, and which was, and which is to come; and from the seven Spirits which are before his throne;

5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,

6 And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.

9 I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ.

10 I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet,

11 Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea.

12 And I turned to see the voice that spake with me. And being turned, I saw seven golden candlesticks;

13 And in the midst of the seven candlesticks one like unto the Son of man, clothed with a garment down to the foot, and girt about the paps with a golden girdle.

14 His head and his hairs were white like wool, as white as snow; and his eyes were as a flame of fire;

15 And his feet like unto fine brass, as if they burned in a furnace; and his voice as the sound of many waters.

16 And he had in his right hand seven stars: and out of his mouth went a sharp twoedged sword: and his countenance was as the sun shineth in his strength.

17 And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last:

18 I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.

19 Write the things which thou hast seen, and the things which are, and the things which shall be hereafter;

20 The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches."

NOTE:." This he has seen....which are.....which shall be hereafter."
Three tenses are described. No time frame other than those are mentioned. One thing seems clear is that the churches described in the first three chapters are "shortly come to pass"...were to be judged. Those were not 7 ages, but rather literal churches established by apostles and the assisting pastors who followed them. The first verse you refered to does not necessarily mean that God was talking about that time period after the thousand year rebellion when the devil would be released from hell for a short season. I see the statement as a significant charge for all believers to note how the early churches were judged and given as good and bad examples to learn from.

See chapter 4
"After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter."

Another future event is given. It occurs after those churches existed. It is future from John's perspective. The time issue is not contradictory. Not every event of the Revelation was supposed to happen that afternoon. Later in the book is the thousand year reign of Christ and He lets the devil out of prison. The devil acts according to his nature and is cast into the lake of fire forever.

Can you see what the Bible is talking about time wise in regards to the first passage? Is that clearer now muffin?


Very clear to me (just like the Olivet Discourse).

The Revelation was written to real people, in the real churches named in Asia Minor, and they were told (in cryptic, apocryphal language) what was going to happen in their lifetimes...soon.

And the fulfillment happened in 70AD.

Any other interpretation makes the scriptures nothing but a deception to those who originally received the writings.

Just like in the Olivet Discourse, where Jesus answers the question regarding "the end" and he tells his audience it will happen to that generation...before they are all dead.

Of course, C.S. Lewis thought Jesus was a false prophet....that he was wrong about his second coming!

I say Lewis was wrong about the nature of the second coming....so he cannot possibly be correct about the timing!

Just like the first century Jews were wrong about the nature of the first coming...and (for the most part) missed it.

I never looked to CS Lewis for biblical insight. He was friends with some great writers like JRR Tolkien though.

As to many prophesies, there is a double fulfillment. Sometimes there are near as well as far prophesies.
I don't worry much if someone holds different views on prophesy, but see a bit more every time I read the Bible through.

The abomination of desolation I think you are referring to in 70AD had an immediate fulfillment, but there's more yet to come when the Antichrist will set up his throne in the new temple yet to be built.

Are you Prederist?


Preterist. Yes!


USMC 0351
Re: For Believers: Is the Biblical Beast [Re: Tarbe] #16565684 10/26/21
Joined: Jun 2020
Posts: 8,526
H
Happy_Camper Offline
Campfire Outfitter
Offline
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H
Joined: Jun 2020
Posts: 8,526
Originally Posted by Tarbe
Originally Posted by Happy_Camper
Originally Posted by Tarbe
Originally Posted by Happy_Camper
Originally Posted by Muffin
REV 1:1 '...The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show to His bond-servants, the things which must soon take place; and He sent and communicated it by His angel to His bond-servant John...'

If GOD cannot tell time, then HE is not GOD.

If the prophecy said SOON and it did not happen SOON then it was not prophecy.

IMHO

I certainly don't know all of the Bible after decades of reading it. One thing I am certain of, no two things.

1. There are things that used to be a mystery and seemed contradictory, that are now clear after understanding rules for interpretation and the bigger picture.
2. If there's something in the Bible that I don't understand, it's because it's a Divinely inspired Book and I am just a simple man with many limitations.

I will post your chosen verse in context so we can see a little more of the picture of these puzzle pieces.

Revelation chapter 1

"1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must [b]shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:[/b]

2 Who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw.

3 Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand.

4 John to the seven churches which are in Asia: Grace be unto you, and peace, from him which is, and which was, and which is to come; and from the seven Spirits which are before his throne;

5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,

6 And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.

9 I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ.

10 I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet,

11 Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea.

12 And I turned to see the voice that spake with me. And being turned, I saw seven golden candlesticks;

13 And in the midst of the seven candlesticks one like unto the Son of man, clothed with a garment down to the foot, and girt about the paps with a golden girdle.

14 His head and his hairs were white like wool, as white as snow; and his eyes were as a flame of fire;

15 And his feet like unto fine brass, as if they burned in a furnace; and his voice as the sound of many waters.

16 And he had in his right hand seven stars: and out of his mouth went a sharp twoedged sword: and his countenance was as the sun shineth in his strength.

17 And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last:

18 I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.

19 Write the things which thou hast seen, and the things which are, and the things which shall be hereafter;

20 The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches."

NOTE:." This he has seen....which are.....which shall be hereafter."
Three tenses are described. No time frame other than those are mentioned. One thing seems clear is that the churches described in the first three chapters are "shortly come to pass"...were to be judged. Those were not 7 ages, but rather literal churches established by apostles and the assisting pastors who followed them. The first verse you refered to does not necessarily mean that God was talking about that time period after the thousand year rebellion when the devil would be released from hell for a short season. I see the statement as a significant charge for all believers to note how the early churches were judged and given as good and bad examples to learn from.

See chapter 4
"After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter."

Another future event is given. It occurs after those churches existed. It is future from John's perspective. The time issue is not contradictory. Not every event of the Revelation was supposed to happen that afternoon. Later in the book is the thousand year reign of Christ and He lets the devil out of prison. The devil acts according to his nature and is cast into the lake of fire forever.

Can you see what the Bible is talking about time wise in regards to the first passage? Is that clearer now muffin?


Very clear to me (just like the Olivet Discourse).

The Revelation was written to real people, in the real churches named in Asia Minor, and they were told (in cryptic, apocryphal language) what was going to happen in their lifetimes...soon.

And the fulfillment happened in 70AD.

Any other interpretation makes the scriptures nothing but a deception to those who originally received the writings.

Just like in the Olivet Discourse, where Jesus answers the question regarding "the end" and he tells his audience it will happen to that generation...before they are all dead.

Of course, C.S. Lewis thought Jesus was a false prophet....that he was wrong about his second coming!

I say Lewis was wrong about the nature of the second coming....so he cannot possibly be correct about the timing!

Just like the first century Jews were wrong about the nature of the first coming...and (for the most part) missed it.

I never looked to CS Lewis for biblical insight. He was friends with some great writers like JRR Tolkien though.

As to many prophesies, there is a double fulfillment. Sometimes there are near as well as far prophesies.
I don't worry much if someone holds different views on prophesy, but see a bit more every time I read the Bible through.

The abomination of desolation I think you are referring to in 70AD had an immediate fulfillment, but there's more yet to come when the Antichrist will set up his throne in the new temple yet to be built.

Are you Prederist?


Preterist. Yes!

Sorry about the spelling. I remember a guy named Bucky Tucker who said he was Baptist......"B-A-B-T-I-S-T, Babtist."...Lol.

I can see why you have a special interest in Revelation.
Do you think Titus was the Antichrist, or someone else?


Man's Greatest Need.... because life is short.
If something happened today, Are you 100% sure that you will go to heaven ?
You can be:
https://youtu.be/3BCl_qkqVVo

AND
https://youtu.be/Wh1VU-_OF98


IC-B

Re: For Believers: Is the Biblical Beast [Re: Tarbe] #16566044 10/27/21
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 6,784
M
Muffin Offline
Campfire Tracker
Offline
Campfire Tracker
M
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 6,784
Originally Posted by Tarbe
Originally Posted by Happy_Camper
Originally Posted by Tarbe
Originally Posted by Happy_Camper
Originally Posted by Muffin
REV 1:1 '...The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show to His bond-servants, the things which must soon take place; and He sent and communicated it by His angel to His bond-servant John...'

If GOD cannot tell time, then HE is not GOD.

If the prophecy said SOON and it did not happen SOON then it was not prophecy.

IMHO

I certainly don't know all of the Bible after decades of reading it. One thing I am certain of, no two things.

1. There are things that used to be a mystery and seemed contradictory, that are now clear after understanding rules for interpretation and the bigger picture.
2. If there's something in the Bible that I don't understand, it's because it's a Divinely inspired Book and I am just a simple man with many limitations.

I will post your chosen verse in context so we can see a little more of the picture of these puzzle pieces.

Revelation chapter 1

"1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must [b]shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:[/b]

2 Who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw.

3 Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand.

4 John to the seven churches which are in Asia: Grace be unto you, and peace, from him which is, and which was, and which is to come; and from the seven Spirits which are before his throne;

5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,

6 And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.

9 I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ.

10 I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet,

11 Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea.

12 And I turned to see the voice that spake with me. And being turned, I saw seven golden candlesticks;

13 And in the midst of the seven candlesticks one like unto the Son of man, clothed with a garment down to the foot, and girt about the paps with a golden girdle.

14 His head and his hairs were white like wool, as white as snow; and his eyes were as a flame of fire;

15 And his feet like unto fine brass, as if they burned in a furnace; and his voice as the sound of many waters.

16 And he had in his right hand seven stars: and out of his mouth went a sharp twoedged sword: and his countenance was as the sun shineth in his strength.

17 And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last:

18 I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.

19 Write the things which thou hast seen, and the things which are, and the things which shall be hereafter;

20 The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches."

NOTE:." This he has seen....which are.....which shall be hereafter."
Three tenses are described. No time frame other than those are mentioned. One thing seems clear is that the churches described in the first three chapters are "shortly come to pass"...were to be judged. Those were not 7 ages, but rather literal churches established by apostles and the assisting pastors who followed them. The first verse you refered to does not necessarily mean that God was talking about that time period after the thousand year rebellion when the devil would be released from hell for a short season. I see the statement as a significant charge for all believers to note how the early churches were judged and given as good and bad examples to learn from.

See chapter 4
"After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter."

Another future event is given. It occurs after those churches existed. It is future from John's perspective. The time issue is not contradictory. Not every event of the Revelation was supposed to happen that afternoon. Later in the book is the thousand year reign of Christ and He lets the devil out of prison. The devil acts according to his nature and is cast into the lake of fire forever.

Can you see what the Bible is talking about time wise in regards to the first passage? Is that clearer now muffin?


Very clear to me (just like the Olivet Discourse).

The Revelation was written to real people, in the real churches named in Asia Minor, and they were told (in cryptic, apocryphal language) what was going to happen in their lifetimes...soon.

And the fulfillment happened in 70AD.

Any other interpretation makes the scriptures nothing but a deception to those who originally received the writings.

Just like in the Olivet Discourse, where Jesus answers the question regarding "the end" and he tells his audience it will happen to that generation...before they are all dead.

Of course, C.S. Lewis thought Jesus was a false prophet....that he was wrong about his second coming!

I say Lewis was wrong about the nature of the second coming....so he cannot possibly be correct about the timing!

Just like the first century Jews were wrong about the nature of the first coming...and (for the most part) missed it.

I never looked to CS Lewis for biblical insight. He was friends with some great writers like JRR Tolkien though.

As to many prophesies, there is a double fulfillment. Sometimes there are near as well as far prophesies.
I don't worry much if someone holds different views on prophesy, but see a bit more every time I read the Bible through.

The abomination of desolation I think you are referring to in 70AD had an immediate fulfillment, but there's more yet to come when the Antichrist will set up his throne in the new temple yet to be built.

Are you Prederist?


Preterist. Yes!


ME TOO!

Re: For Believers: Is the Biblical Beast [Re: jaguartx] #16566183 10/27/21
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 100,461
deflave Offline
Campfire Oracle
Offline
Campfire Oracle
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 100,461
Do you know why religious nuts always come across as retarded?

Because they’re fugking retarded.


For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

John 3:16
Re: For Believers: Is the Biblical Beast [Re: K22] #16566726 10/27/21
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 1,205
WhiteTail48 Offline
Campfire Regular
Offline
Campfire Regular
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 1,205
Originally Posted by K22
Originally Posted by RickyD
Originally Posted by K22
Originally Posted by RickyD
Eternity is bereft of time but follow the Prophecies God has given us. They show the eternal knowledge of God.And maybe even what might come next
It is getting close to the end, I believe.





Define......"the end".

Read Revelation.



I have, many times, so I'll ask that question again.
Define .............the end. The end of what!


The end (of the age) is the setting for the coming of Jesus Christ for His church and the fulfillment of Israel’s prophetic destiny.

Re: For Believers: Is the Biblical Beast [Re: WhiteTail48] #16567903 10/27/21
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 15,396
K
K22 Offline
Campfire Kahuna
Offline
Campfire Kahuna
K
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 15,396
Originally Posted by WhiteTail48
Originally Posted by K22
Originally Posted by RickyD
Originally Posted by K22
Originally Posted by RickyD
Eternity is bereft of time but follow the Prophecies God has given us. They show the eternal knowledge of God.And maybe even what might come next
It is getting close to the end, I believe.





Define......"the end".

Read Revelation.



I have, many times, so I'll ask that question again.
Define .............the end. The end of what!


The end (of the age) is the setting for the coming of Jesus Christ for His church and the fulfillment of Israel’s prophetic destiny.


Yes, I would agree with this. It is also the end of evil, known as deep state.

Re: For Believers: Is the Biblical Beast [Re: jaguartx] #16572629 10/29/21
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 15,396
K
K22 Offline
Campfire Kahuna
Offline
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K
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 15,396
Originally Posted by jaguartx
A man?



Jag,
I'll say it one more time for you. The Beast you are referring to is a system, that system is something many wonder after. It is the Church and it's teachings. What I have just said is every where in that book called the Bible and is hinted in every other belief known to mankind. Matthew, Luke, John, Rev. just to name a few taught what this very thing, but there is no money in this teaching and that is why there are many false prophets, false Christs, ect. Thomas was one of the few who wouldn't teach the false religion and left crossing the Caucus Mtns. followed by the Northern House. So yes, the sheep have lost their way and follow after a beast or as said differently they followed after the Dragon.

Re: For Believers: Is the Biblical Beast [Re: Happy_Camper] #16578840 10/31/21
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 969
Tarbe Offline
Campfire Regular
Offline
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Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 969
Originally Posted by Happy_Camper


I can see why you have a special interest in Revelation.
Do you think Titus was the Antichrist, or someone else?



Just for the record, I don't have a special interest in Revelation. All scripture is important and it is all from the same "author".

I do believe Revelation is probably the most abused, misunderstood writing in the entire Bible (among Christians, anyway).

Regarding antichrist, I believe John told us there were already many antichrists in the world, during the first century. I do not get too hung up on trying to label one fellow or another as "the one".

Titus certainly was a war club in the hand of Yahweh, to exact vengeance on those who pierced the Messiah.


USMC 0351
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