Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Express Rifles and Big Bores Only The great 458 Winchester. Everyone should own one at least once

Extra views of the .458 WM box in previous post:

As promised, more followers, magazine followers:













Enough for now, I am sure some would agree.

The .450 NE is one of those No-Throat Cartridges with brass designed for not much more than 40K PSI.
The .458 Lott Like Jack Built is the more powerful choice,
but it can do no more than a SAAMI .458 WinMag Ruger No. 1.
Both can load a 500-gr/.458 TSX to 3.78" COL at most, and with the same charge of powder.
Thus becoming two wildcat loads that perform the same when loaded to same pressure with same bullet.
.458 WM+Unchained (.458 WM+U)
.458 Lott Like Jack Built (.458 LLJB)

In the SAAMI .458 Lott, with both the 450-gr and 500-gr TSX, one has to short-trim the brass
(acccording to BARNES RELOADING MANUAL NUMBER 4)
"back to 2.760" so that these bullets can be loaded within the SAAMI spec C.O.A.L. of 3.600".
If your magazine box will handle cartridges longer than 3.600", this step is not necessary.

But the SAAMI .458 Lott throat will not allow as much longer as will the "wildcat loadings" of the .458 LLJB and .458 WM+U.
Both "wildcat loadings" allow same length COL as the SAAMI .458 Winchester Magnum chamber, when the bullet is long enough.
The only advantage of the .458 LLJB over the .458 WM+U is with snake&birdshot and rat-bullet loads.
Come to think of it, Old Fugly would make a dandy Garden Gun.

Just beating the old sawhorse to death:
Physics does not lie.Throat throat throat.
That's a fact Jack.
"Train, Train."

Sir Ron Alf thought he was smart but has nothing on you. We bow to your brilliance

Here is my 45-90



Need to get a load for the big devil. My old buddy got it as a rechambered 45-70.

Might be a ton of fun.

Sir John,

Ha ha. Buy a donkey for the flowers.
Alf was an orthopedic surgeon of sorts, specializing in foot and ankle reconstruction I reckon.

Selection of medical specialty training candidates:
Bottom third of graduating medical school class goes to gym for bench press testing.
Those who can bench press their own weight go into orthopedic surgery.
Those who can't bench their own weight go into OB/GYN surgery.

Two medical doctors are standing in an elevator.
The elevator starts to close as a colleague rushes up to get in too.
The Board Cerified Family Medicine "specialist" sticks his hand out to stop the doors.
The orthopedic surgeon sticks his head between the doors.

Alf was hung up on the .458 Express 3-Inch,
like a .458 Lott lengthened to 3" case.
It was invented by his RSA countrymen and was absolutely more of a bad idea.

Sir Scotty,

You need to punch that .45-90-2.4" out to .45-100-2.6" with the same throat as on a .458 Winner.
I thought I had done something slightly original in doing that,
until I discovered that CIP had already homologated the exact same chambering, called the .45-70 Elko Magnum.
Uses 70 grains of smokeless instead of 70 grains of BP, I reckon to be the nomenclature idea.
The case made with Starline .45-2.6" brass is a couple of grains H2O bigger than Hornady .458 WM brass.

I have a couple of Ruger No. 1 rifles so chambered.
Here is one of mine, a lot like yours, should be same weight:



The Starline brass is up to handling any SAAMI .458 WM load, just make the COL 0.100" longer.
The Ruger No. 1 action can certainly handle it.
We can make plenty of "Train, Train" about such chamberings,
tons of fun that can be duplicated by the .458 Winner, just to stay on the train tracks.

But for the next few days this hobo is going to hop out of the boxcar.
Headed to a shindig to celebrate the 50th anniversary of my high schools's first state championship in boys' cross-country.
The high school has so many of those old trophies now that they were going to throw out their first one.
I am driving it to the home of my team mate.



We started a tradition of winning at our high school.
He and I are the only surviving members of the "Fearsome Foursome" top scorers for the team.
Hey, the .458 Winner started a similar tradition 65 years ago.
The .458 Winner figure above is from that trophy.
The trophy is going into a private shrine now.

Cool stuff RC! On the 458 and the Cross Country Ass kickings.

A sincere buy a donkey to you, Sir Scotty.



The "winners," just like the .458 Winchester Magnum, now that I have hopped back on the "Train, Train":



Above is at the Bourbon County High School Cross Country Course near Paris, Kentucky.
That is the closest I will ever get to Paris.
I was the "team captain" and my name is listed first on that trophy.
Curtis beat all by wearing his lucky socks that day, 50 years ago to the day.
He is wearing them in the photo above too, under plastic bags over his shoes and socks, due to the rainy day muddy course.
He would not dare risk mud on his lucky socks.

On my way home from the celebration, the Wife and I stopped off at Trader Joe's in Louisville, KY for some groceries.
When a guy in his seventh decade of life walks around in his high school "letter windbreaker" that says
"Kentucky State Champions 1971" across the back of it, and he is wearing a medal around his neck,
people at the grocery store are really nice to him.
They probably think he is socially or mentally retarded and are just being kind to the "special."
Sort of like the lame stream media does to Joe Biden.
The loser:

Winner:














Ha ! Just mill your own properly dimensioned magazine box "from scrap" like Harald Wolf does.
Or pull a W. J. Jeffery Model 1905 job out of your hat ?
5-round magazine he said !
22" barrel he said !
But he might do 20" next time !

I think it is interesting that Harald Wolf built a .458 WinMag Jungle Carbine for his own use, though he usually advocated for the .458 Lott.
But that was before the fog lifted and we all realized the superiority of the .458 WM+Unlimited.
Harald Wolf loved to build rifles and sell rifles.
Of course he would advocate the .458 Lott over the .458 WM.
New fashion to replace old fashion to encourage commerce.
Returning to the "Classic" .458 WM makes most sense nowadays.
More than just another swing of fashion, undoing the conversion to .458 Lott is smart.
It is time for commerce in that direction, by the wise.

Here is the cover of HTI No. 24, from about end of 2009 or early 2010, call it "Page 1"



That is a wild image by a cameraman of steel. Harald was that you ?
Back cover of same issue, "Page 60":



Inside of cover, "Page 2":



What a GUNSMITH ! Hand-made .500 Jeffery and Leverbolt Newton rifles !

Harald Wolf, The Master, ran into health issues in 2009:

A great book:



Back cover:



And an excerpt for "book review purposes," a single image I have turned sideways and labeled with info from the book:



The .458/.416 Ruger aka .458 WinRuger shall forthwith be known as the ".45 Newton."
The Newton head diameter is .523".
The Ruger head diameter is .532". Close enough for "Train, Train" work.
The .45 NEWTON:
Better shoulder than a .400 Whelen.
Better shoulder than a .300 AAC Blackout.
Recommended for cleaning up a .458 WinMag chamber found to be ringed by reamer chatter at the factory.

Compared, not quite to same scale:


.40 Newton maximum brass length has been claimed to be 2.568", shoulder 23 degrees,
head diameter 0.523", rim diameter 0.524".
.45 Newton maximum brass length has been claimed to be 2.580", shoulder 30 degrees,
head and rim diameters both 0.532".

Harald Wolf recommended using the 480-grain bullet in the .458 Lott at 2200 fps.

The SAAMI .458 Winchester Magnum at 3.340" COL and less than 60,000 psi can easily do that with a 24" barrel.
That easily duplicates the classic .450 Nitro Express.
The .458 WinMag+UnLtd. can do a lot more, that is, more than a Lott.

LOL … Sir Bulkie is fine by me .

Sir Bulkie,

HOO-RAH !
Well done !
Another Knight of the .458 Winchester Magnum Brotherhood is made.
Have a tap on the shoulder with the flat of a Bagwell Bowie at the next meeting at The Square Table.
We are like the Maytag Repairman nowadays regarding repairing the .458 Winchester Magnum.
It needs no fixing !
That leaves plenty of time to party on this "Train, Train" of a thread.

Cheers to Sir Ron,
For keeping this very informative,
Enjoyable, and exciting thread alive!

HS58

Riflecrank

can I be a squire. to the knights of the 458 crusade

pros. I have a 458
I shoot cast bullet
and I am the one who told you where the get picatiny rail specially made for the
model 70. (near manufacturing)
the first place I go opening my computer in the morning is to go to this thread

canuckistan

.

Sir Tony,
Buy a donkey for the flowers.
Just spreading the word.
There are a fewer and fewer Lottites around nowadays,
but we are always ready to show them the way.