24hourcampfire.com
24hourcampfire.com
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
Page 2 of 4 1 2 3 4
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 17,067
Campfire Ranger
Offline
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 17,067
Originally Posted by Billy_Goat
Originally Posted by ERK
What is the actual purpose of the rifle? Edk


elk rifle from 300-500 yards.

most of my elk hunting areas are short range (<300 yards) but there are also several spots where opportunities are considerably longer.



You don’t have to dial for 300 yds, and on elk, barely for 400. Beyond that, I would say yes. If this is elk-specific, I agree, you really don’t need more than10x at the top. Ok, 10x, 12x, or 15x top.

Might ask what is your platform, weight, and chambering. Just my opinion, but if your back wall is 500, you could do well without a special build and a quality scope with a good ballistic reticle.

BP-B2

Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 799
6
Campfire Regular
Offline
Campfire Regular
6
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 799
Have a look at the Leupold VX5 3-15 with CDS and fire dot. I went through a number of scopes - SFP and FFP - prior to this one. They all worked fine, but I wanted/needed a good adjustable illuminated reticle. Some of the scope I tried had illumination, but the illumination wasn’t user friendly. The fire dot seemed to be just the ticket, and the CDS dial can be customized for your rifle and load. So I bought one and got the custom turret (first one is free). I checked the dial out by shooting out to 400 yards and the scope was right on. Since then I’ve used the CDS and fire dot to a max distance of 400 yards on a hog in failing light. So far, I have to say that it’s my favorite scope ever. The only minor issue is that it’s the only rifle I hunt with now.

30 mm tube, if that matters, and the cost was under $1000.

Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 820
Campfire Regular
OP Offline
Campfire Regular
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 820
Originally Posted by George_De_Vries_3rd
Originally Posted by Billy_Goat
Originally Posted by ERK
What is the actual purpose of the rifle? Edk


elk rifle from 300-500 yards.

most of my elk hunting areas are short range (<300 yards) but there are also several spots where opportunities are considerably longer.



You don’t have to dial for 300 yds, and on elk, barely for 400. Beyond that, I would say yes. If this is elk-specific, I agree, you really don’t need more than10x at the top. Ok, 10x, 12x, or 15x top.

Might ask what is your platform, weight, and chambering. Just my opinion, but if your back wall is 500, you could do well without a special build and a quality scope with a good ballistic reticle.


Rifle is a Savage BVSS 112 - used to be a 25-06, but I rebarrelled it for this purpose. it's heavy as hell (was a great prairie dog gun), but that makes it very easy to shoot well.


First teach a child to love God, second teach him to love family, third teach him to fish and hunt and by the time he is in his teens no dope dealer under the sun can teach him anything. Cotton Cordell
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 17,067
Campfire Ranger
Offline
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 17,067

Well, you didn’t mention what it’s or is to be chambered in, but regardless, you want to add nearly two pounds of scope, rings and bases to an already very heavy rifle? Is it to be another 308?

I guess my next question would be where do you elk hunt that you get mostly mostly under 300 yd shots but want a 10+ lb rifle? If it’s private land where you can take a lay-down stand, maybe. But anything other than that and we have very different views of what makes a portable elk rifle.

I have no problem with the 308 itself.

Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 820
Campfire Regular
OP Offline
Campfire Regular
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 820
Originally Posted by George_De_Vries_3rd

Well, you didn’t mention what it’s or is to be chambered in, but regardless, you want to add nearly two pounds of scope, rings and bases to an already very heavy rifle? Is it to be another 308?

I guess my next question would be where do you elk hunt that you get mostly mostly under 300 yd shots but want a 10+ lb rifle? If it’s private land where you can take a lay-down stand, maybe. But anything other than that and we have very different views of what makes a portable elk rifle.

I have no problem with the 308 itself.


sorry. it's now a 280AI.

so just to be clear, on my elk hunt this year I found a couple spots that offer longer shot opportunities, and surprisingly, neither are ridiculous hikes from the road. both are <1/2 mile from the truck, all walking on fairly flat terrain. for this application, a heavy rifle isnt a bad thing.

my "normal" elk rifle is a Savage LWH in 308, with 4-12 glass. I used it to shoot this years cow at ~35 yards on public land/national forest. in my lifetime, I've shot 3 elk now. 35, 19 and 35 yards each. smile


First teach a child to love God, second teach him to love family, third teach him to fish and hunt and by the time he is in his teens no dope dealer under the sun can teach him anything. Cotton Cordell
IC B2

Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 7,908
K
Campfire Outfitter
Offline
Campfire Outfitter
K
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 7,908
SWFA 3X9 Mil


kk alaska

Alaska 7 months of winter then 5 months of tourists
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 4,647
S
Campfire Tracker
Offline
Campfire Tracker
S
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 4,647
This season I upgraded the scopes on my elk rifles. I had Leupold VX6 2-12s with the lit long range duplex. I was good to 500 with this setup using the dots. I sold the Leupolds (most went for >$1000 on ebay) and bought the Vortex Razor LHT mil/mil illuminated 3-15 from Scott at Liberty Optics for $750 shipped. I think these are very tough to beat for the money. Excellent glass, tracking is spot on, durable, locking turrets with good clicks, and a nice illuminated non-cluttered reticle.

Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 17,067
Campfire Ranger
Offline
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 17,067

Well, I’m no expert and there are many here who’ve taken more elk than I, but in contrast to your experience, of ten bulls I’ve taken, all were after hours and miles of walking/riding in the mountains. Three cows were closer.

Perhaps unusual here, my bulls averaged over 400 yds. I’m not here to dissuade anybody for building an elk rifle but it seems to me, your “normal†elk rifle would much more versatile than “ol heavy†because I expect your average distance is going to be far north of where it is now if you keep after these wonderful animals. And it will most likely be hiking much longer distances.

Just me, but, if anything, I would consider your lightweight Savage with a good ballistic reticle scope. My opinion again, but don’t marry your lightweight rifle to a 30 mm heavyweight scope which you will get with about any “dialing scope†due to the necessary internals. Keep the top at 10 or 12x.

I took a rutting whitetail at 500 yds with a Zeiss and their proprietary reticle. Dialing will be more precise but significantly at 500 yds and on but I have used Zeiss, Swarovski, Leopold, and Bushnell ballistic reticles and they all work with proper understanding.

Get two; put one on each rifle and you have a set-up for a quarter mile off the rode, and that hunt where you end up 5 miles in and up.

Good hunting.

Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 4,636
Campfire Tracker
Offline
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 4,636
Hell, at 500 yards throw a Burris FFII with a ballistic plex on there.

But if you want to get tricky, Nightforce SHV.


Originally Posted by shrapnel
I probably hit more elk with a pickup than you have with a rifle.


Originally Posted by JohnBurns
I have yet to see anyone claim Leupold has never had to fix an optic. I know I have sent a few back. 2 MK 6s, a VX-6, and 3 VX-111s.
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 5,792
H
Campfire Tracker
Offline
Campfire Tracker
H
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 5,792
Originally Posted by JPro
Originally Posted by TheBigSky
I own all of the SWFAs mentioned herein and the Bushnells. In my opinion, you would be hard pressed to do better than a Bushnell LRHS or LRTS. I like and use the SWFAs and Bushnells; but, if I were searching for that "just one" for your identified purposes, it would be the LRHS/LRTS.


Yep. I'd look for a used LRTSi 3-12x. The reticle is bold enough to be useful at mid-power and 12x is enough for 500yds. I'm glad I got one when they were being made.


^^^^
This

John


If my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and I will forgive their sin and will heal their land. 2 Chronicles 7:14
IC B3

Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 17,527
D
Campfire Ranger
Offline
Campfire Ranger
D
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 17,527
Nightforce NXS 3.5-15x.

Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 11,340
Campfire Outfitter
Offline
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 11,340
Originally Posted by SeanD
Swfa 6x42 or 3-9x42. Perfect for 500 yard hunting rifles.

Answers usually come on first page. Didn't read the rest.

Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 707
A
Campfire Regular
Offline
Campfire Regular
A
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 707
Hand me over a Burris Veracity and let's kill some elk.



Joined: Mar 2020
Posts: 139
M
Campfire Member
Offline
Campfire Member
M
Joined: Mar 2020
Posts: 139
I'm of mind that you can't hit what you can't see. For your budget and desire to have more magnification, I can recommend the Nikon X1000 6-24x 50mm, 30mms tube if you can still find one. This is excellent glass for the money, generally under $750, and has illuminated reticle which is nice for shady targets. If you don't need more than 6x great, but you've got the magnification if you want it. I own four of them and have been very pleased with them.

Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 7,445
Campfire Tracker
Offline
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 7,445
Originally Posted by dogcatcher223
Nightforce NXS 3.5-15x.


BINGO!!!

Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 32,312
Campfire 'Bwana
Offline
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 32,312
I would point out that if you are dialing for distance, FFP is of little (no?) consequence. I don’t personally want my reticle to change with power settings, like it does with FFP, though others don’t mind. I would scratch that one from the requirement list.

A Zeiss V4 4-16x50 with their #93 illuminated reticle can be had from RHR for $799 and they are really nice units. The turret design is fantastic- best I’ve used or even just checked out; it’s killer. The scope is Jap built from the same folks building the NF SHV’s. The #93 is a simple reticle (not an xmas tree, avoid those) that that presents to my eye as a duplex give or take, but will still provide windage hashes for holding off. The illumination is slick. Optically superb.

If you go this route don’t get tempted by the 44mm version. Get the 50mm. I have both and can speak to that with some authority.


The CENTER will hold.

Reality, Patriotism,Trump: you can only pick two

FÃœCK PUTIN!
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 9,123
A
Campfire Outfitter
Offline
Campfire Outfitter
A
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 9,123
Originally Posted by Jeff_O
I would point out that if you are dialing for distance, FFP is of little (no?) consequence. I don’t personally want my reticle to change with power settings, like it does with FFP, though others don’t mind. I would scratch that one from the requirement list.

A Zeiss V4 4-16x50 with their #93 illuminated reticle can be had from RHR for $799 and they are really nice units. The turret design is fantastic- best I’ve used or even just checked out; it’s killer. The scope is Jap built from the same folks building the NF SHV’s. The #93 is a simple reticle (not an xmas tree, avoid those) that that presents to my eye as a duplex give or take, but will still provide windage hashes for holding off. The illumination is slick. Optically superb.

If you go this route don’t get tempted by the 44mm version. Get the 50mm. I have both and can speak to that with some authority.


I highly doubt anyone is looking for advice from a dumbass liberal that can't balance himself on a ladder or open a box of bullets.....

Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 14,435
Campfire Outfitter
Offline
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 14,435
Originally Posted by Jeff_O
I would point out that if you are dialing for distance, FFP is of little (no?) consequence. I don’t personally want my reticle to change with power settings, like it does with FFP, though others don’t mind. I would scratch that one from the requirement list.


Jeff,

To the contrary, the point of an FFP reticle is that the subtensions don't change with changes in magnification. This is extremely useful for feedback and measuring the angular subtension of various things, even when dialing elevation (and I would actually suggest that it's particularly helpful when dialing elevation).

Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 32,312
Campfire 'Bwana
Offline
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 32,312
Hey Jordan! Long time. Your kids must be getting BIG! smile

Yeah, I know how FFP’s work and what their advantages and disadvantages are. I think the OP would be well-served by a SFP scope; or at least shouldn’t rule one out for their stated purposes. Also, if they do decide to stick with FFP in their spec, they should handle one and mess with changing the X’s and make sure a reticle that changes like that suits them. I personally don’t like it. Very distracting.

A lot of folks have done a lot of very good shootin’ with SFP scopes.

ETA: I just re-read the OP. I hope he realizes that if you are dialing for elevation, you do not need to worry what magnification a SFP is set to. That’s only an issue if you are using a holdover reticle for your elevation... in that case, the scope has to be set to full power. If you dial, it doesn’t matter what power the scope is set to.

There’s an exception I’ll mention just because Jordan is a sharp guy and will point it out. smile It’s pretty much irrelevant to the OP but in the spirit of technical accuracy here it is. The exception to the above is the windage hash marks that I mentioned in the SFP Zeiss 4-16x50 with the #93 reticle. For those to be correct the scope does need to be at full power. With the OP using it for hunting, at 500 max, I contend that’s a non-issue... but there it is.

Last edited by Jeff_O; 12/27/21.

The CENTER will hold.

Reality, Patriotism,Trump: you can only pick two

FÃœCK PUTIN!
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 14,435
Campfire Outfitter
Offline
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 14,435
Originally Posted by Jeff_O
Hey Jordan! Long time. Your kids must be getting BIG! smile

Yeah, I know how FFP’s work and what their advantages and disadvantages are. I think the OP would be well-served by a SFP scope; or at least shouldn’t rule one out for their stated purposes. Also, if they do decide to stick with FFP in their spec, they should handle one and mess with changing the X’s and make sure a reticle that changes like that suits them. I personally don’t like it. Very distracting.

A lot of folks have done a lot of very good shootin’ with SFP scopes.

ETA: I just re-read the OP. I hope he realizes that if you are dialing for elevation, you do not need to worry what magnification a SFP is set to. That’s only an issue if you are using a holdover reticle for your elevation... in that case, the scope has to be set to full power. If you dial, it doesn’t matter what power the scope is set to.

There’s an exception I’ll mention just because Jordan is a sharp guy and will point it out. smile It’s pretty much irrelevant to the OP but in the spirit of technical accuracy here it is. The exception to the above is the windage hash marks that I mentioned in the SFP Zeiss 4-16x50 with the #93 reticle. For those to be correct the scope does need to be at full power. With the OP using it for hunting, at 500 max, I contend that’s a non-issue... but there it is.

They are getting big, indeed, Jeff! How's things with you?

I know you know how FFP reticles work, but I thought it needed to be pointed out that while the absolute linear dimensions of FFP reticles vary with mag changes, the relative dimensions (i.e., the angular subtensions) remain constant, which is exactly their primary benefit. I would also point out that holding corrections for drop and wind drift are only two of the uses in which FFP reticles are advantageous. They are also very handy for measuring angular corrections when a previous shot is not on the intended POI (whether your own shot, or when spotting for another shooter), leading moving targets, estimating distance using the reticle, estimating target size, etc. In all of these scenarios the constant angular subtensions mean that you don't have to worry about he magnification setting; a good thing, since I'm often not on max magnification when using the marks on my reticle. I would argue that these are handy features even for 500 yard shooting and in.

Of course good work can be done and has been done with SFP reticles. But FFP reticles give more flexibility and make it easier to do that work in a variety of scenarios.

Page 2 of 4 1 2 3 4

Moderated by  RickBin 

Link Copied to Clipboard
YB23

Who's Online Now
702 members (10gaugemag, 12344mag, 10Glocks, 160user, 1Akshooter, 1beaver_shooter, 70 invisible), 3,039 guests, and 1,416 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Statistics
Forums81
Topics1,187,680
Posts18,399,622
Members73,817
Most Online11,491
Jul 7th, 2023


 







Fish & Game Departments | Solunar Tables | Mission Statement | Privacy Policy | Contact Us | DMCA
Hunting | Fishing | Camping | Backpacking | Reloading | Campfire Forums | Gear Shop
Copyright © 2000-2024 24hourcampfire.com, Inc. All Rights Reserved.
Powered by UBB.threadsâ„¢ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5
(Release build 20201027)
Responsive Width:

PHP: 7.3.33 Page Time: 0.079s Queries: 15 (0.004s) Memory: 0.9081 MB (Peak: 1.0819 MB) Data Comp: Zlib Server Time: 2024-03-28 21:40:24 UTC
Valid HTML 5 and Valid CSS