Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters Best cartridge for Sambar, Nilgi, Aoudad etc 270 or 6.5x55 or 7x57?

“There are some Nilgai draw hunts on some federal properdy down in the valley still, but it seems like that have cut those back a good bit. I've always heard that is a hard hunt, especially since you can't use a truck to collect the animal, you had to pack it or use a cart. Seems silly for such a big animal.”

My boys and I have drawn 3 times for the nilgai hunts in the Valley. Connected twice. Once had to drag about 1/4 mile, but I had friends to help. Other time we were 2 miles in with my teenage son. I had taken a wheel barrow in and hidden it the week before, but it was still tough. It’s a dang tough hunt if you are by yourself and you connect.

As our sage from the North often says, "It's the boolit, not the headstamp"...



DF

Any one is fine

Just for the record, I know nothing about any of the species you're asking about and wouldn't recognize a representative specimen if it walked through my yard. With that out of the way, I'll answer your original question: 6.5 X 55 is the best cartridge out there. Period.

It would be wise to reread Elvis' comments on sambar as it is not like "usual" deer hunting "IF" they are found in similar terrain as they are hunted in Oz.
The sambar dodges tigers for a living in his native grounds so man is not much of a problem. He will stand and watch you pee after an exhausting hunt. He will hide in thick brush as you walk past. He is nearly as big as an elk but with shorter legs making him resemble a Jersey cow more than a deer. He will crash off breaking timber and you will never even see him.

Aussies commonly carry larger cartridges in a land that more commonly uses smaller cartridges that most Americans. It is common for hunters of many years deer hunting experience to take several more years before taking their first sambar. They are not like hunting usual deer as they are more solitary and completely unlike the large herds seen on Indian documentaries. They adapt to mountains and steep hills and gullies with thick brush hence the comments from Elvis.

I have hunted whitetail, mule, red, fallow and sambar. I would never carry the same rifle for sambar as I have for the lesser species because they are truly lesser species, which is why the sambar is usually called "The Mighty Sambar" by those with experience. The difference is the tenacity, the size and the terrain and the intellect in sensing danger and disappearing. The sambar has no intention of dropping to the shot and will disappear just when you are feeling confident.

I hunted them from the late 80's for the next dozen years or so. I did my time in the Wonnangatta Valley and Buffalo River areas. There is a reason these deer are on 365 day license.

Just to follow on from AGW's post, sambar are pretty tough, and are a good size - a lot bigger than your whitetails. The other thing that comes into it in the Australian context at least is that they are usually hunted on public land and like the thick stuff, so the shot opportunities are often more or less fleeting, may not be from a good angle, and you really want the deer down right there or it could disappear into thick blackberry or lantana and be a bugger to find. As well, there are a good number hunted by hound teams, and thus shot on the gallop.

I have little doubt that any of the calibres nominated will do the job, assuming a suitable bullet, angle and placement, so if you can pick your shots on undisturbed animals they'll do fine. I used to know a bloke, now passed on, who shot a large number of them with a .270, but he lived in their habitat and could hunt every day, so could pick his shots.

Personally I have used a .30/06 quite happily, but there is something to be said for something with a bit more bullet weight and diameter for the sort of conditions we hunt them under. A lot of blokes here use .338, 9.3, even .458. This is perhaps especially true of the posted shooters hunting with hounds.

Dang, when you describe how one normally has to hunt them, a bigger cartridge certainly sounds comforting, ha. At lease its a good excuse to buy/trade for a 9.3x62, 35 whelen, 338/06 or even the 338WM! All would be a bigger hammer! Its "almost like" trying to fill a "Spike Elk Only" Tag out here, The bigger bulls keep them run out of the herd, so they "satellite" the group in hopes of finding a lone cow or move in when the Big Boy is fighting another. They are skittish, on edge, hyper alert and remind me of hunting quail! Its hard to see horns in the black timber too. IF one finally gets a shot, it almost always is fast and furious! I've never seen a Sambar but many speak of them being "spike elk sized". Thats alot of thick hide, heavy muscle and bigger bones. I like the Barnes TSX and TTSX for this kind of shooting. I hunted in '96; '98; and 2002 in South Africa and Namibia with friends. We shot similar sized animals with the 300WM/180 XBT; 35 Whelen Ackley/250X & 200X; 338WM/200X; 340 Wby/210xbt; .375 H&H/270 Fail Safes; 300WM and the 165X. They all penetrated like crazy! (the 338WM with the 200x and the 300WM/165X was my SA friend experimenting.)

From what you guys describe, the sambar must be sorta like our nilgai. They’re tougher than white tails, but not bulletproof. Nevertheless, some outfitters and guides recommend bigger rounds.

The one I went with carried a 340 Wby. Too many accounts of those critters being killed with more conventional rounds, although good bullet choice is never a bad idea.

Nilgai are good eating, how about sambar?

DF

I put down a nilgai last thursday with a .303 British. One shot.

Btw, I worked for Joe McBride for years. Part and full time.

That defies the myth a bit.

They not bullet proof.

DF

Like anything, if you get one which is in good nick, drop it cleanly and treat it properly it is really good. There's a lot of meat on a full-grown one too, so you'll need a strong back and at least a couple of trips to carry it out.

DF,

Nilgai are much larger than sambar, with thicker hides. Like many African antelope, the bulls also have somewhat different internal and external anatomy anatomy than "deer" like whitetails and elk--or sambar. They have humped shoulders, with the vitals somewhat lower and farther forward.

I have hunted nilgai since the 1990s, and firmly believe that one reason they got a reputation for being incredibly hard to kill was the typical "hunting" method when they first became somewhat popular to hunt. People drove around until they saw nilgai, than chased them with their vehicles, slamming on the brakes occasionally to whack away as the nilgai ran. This naturally resulted in many poorly-placed shots.

Also, many people didn't use deep-penetrating bullets, just typical cup-and-cores, which due to the thick hide and muscular, heavy-boned shoulders often didn't penetrate well. Hence the recommendation for the .375 H&H and similar cartridges.

Among the later nilgai nilgai hunts I went on, post-pickup chase, was one "field-testing" the .270 WSM with 140-grain Fail Safe bullets, with 14 other writers and hunting-industry people. We were each allowed two nilgai, a bull and a cow, and we all killed both, thanks to more careful hunting in the semi-brushy dune country near the coast on the King Ranch. The guides had all been VERY skeptical of ANY ".270" with such light bullets, but by the end of the hunt were calling the .270 WSM one the best nilgai cartridges they'd ever seen used.

In general that has also been my experience with big game animals with reputations for being tough to kill, whether African plains game or American elk. I grew up in Montana when NOBODY used anything except cup-and-core bullets, except a very few handloaders who used Nosler Partitions. (The only factory ammo Partitions appeared in back then was Weatherby, and very few local Montanans used Weatherby rifles back then, and the rifles and their ammo were too damn expensive for most local elk hunters.)

But after I hunted a bunch of these super-tough animals with good bullets, whether elk or plains game, I didn't find them so tough to kill. Some will indeed go a LONG way if hit around the edges of the vitals, but one good example might be gemsbok--which are about the size of sambar. The biggest one I've ever killed and actually had weighed went 550 pounds. Yet on one big cull-safari in 2007 I saw gemsbok killed with a variety of cartridges and bullets--and one of the quickest kills was with a .270 Winchester and a 150-grain Partition, placed through the middle of both lungs. The bull went down in 50 yards, about what I'd expect from a similar-sized elk with the same bullet and placement.

The only real gemsbok rodeo occurred with a hunter using the .375 H&H and 270-grain Barnes TSX bullets. Like many Americans used to shooting animals "behind the shoulder," he put the bullet too far back, just catching the rear edge of the lungs. Now, we often hear how bigger magnum rounds are better killers with marginal hits, but that gemsbok went two miles before we caught up with it, when the hunter managed to put a second bullet farther forward.

Some animals are indeed more prone to travel considerably with a marginal hit, whether due to poor aim or a poor bullet--as are both elk and gemsbok. But have yet to run into a big game animal that survived very long from a good hit with a good bullet, even from some comparatively small cartridges.

Was a bit atypical. Nontheless about a 25 yd shot. Bull was believed to be less than healthy. (Tick fever?? Dunno).

I know of one other very healthy bull succumbing to a single round of .303 Brit on this same ranch. About a 75 yd. shot.

Kaywoodie, Next time my wife goes to see her sister in Fayetteville, I'll sneak a Kitchen Pass and make it over to Bastrop while the "girls" are antique shopping in LaGrange...been wanting to go explore the SP anyway to mebbe see what a Red Deer looks like. At my age nowdays all the old friends and customers I had when I worked for Schoellkopf or Stoeger, for 13 years, are about gone.

I did talk to Dudly on the phone a couple times before he passed, back before we moved to Palestine in '16. Dud & I had traveled together sometimes working Shows and it blew peoples mind that the Wby guy & the SAKO guy were good friends ...how do you think Dud got that new pistol line from Georgia, that I had been offered in Denver at that last Wholesaler's Show up there, thanks to Bobby G @ Dave's in Dallas, after Dud was dropped by Ed soon after Roy died ...Dud had repped the Line thru thick & thin for over 22 years. I'll give you a heads up when I am headed that way.
Ron

The OP's thread is adequate cartridges to kill a Nilgai, Aoudad and sambar for which I know Aussies that have taken them all. Because of the inclusion of sambar, the intended communication from the Aussies who have more familiarity with them, is that stopping a sambar holds the same priority as killing him or he may be lost. We all know and accept what is being presented and I too know Aussies that have used cartridges as small as the commonly deer associated .308 Winchester for sambar but that is not the intent of the communication.

The terrain in Oz combined with the tenacity of the sambar dictates dropping the deer as fast as possible from a less than ideal shot presentation by using larger caliber or powered rifles. I realize this steps on a few toes on other threads covering similar/same topics but a 100yard death run is likely a lost sambar, especially if he enters or crosses the many creeks and streams there. (A side bar is that when Aussies speak of "dogwood" it has no similarity to the dogwood growing in the US. Australian high country dogwood is a chest to head high clump of brush you cannot go around that breaks up like dead sticks. It is thick and noisy to break through if you cannot get around it.) Because of that stopping power emphasis, heavier caliber cartridges are the more common choice downunder. The legal minimum cartridge when I lived there was .270 Winchester, but I never knew or even heard second hand information on anyone who carried that small a cartridge.

One of my late buddies killed more sambar than anyone else at the time and he used the .308 and the .9.3x62. Kurt was a biologist and studied every plant in the habitat so could track memory laced with smoke but because he spent so much time in the bush, separated cartridges from adequacy to ideal. The 9.3 fit the ideal category.

Always remember the same argument goes on with fishermen. There are those that like spiderweb 3-4lb lines and those who won't have anything lighter than 8-10lb on their reels.

I knew I knew ...I knew I should not have sold that CZ 550 9.3x62 to my neighbor when we moved down here, but could not see a useful purpose in keeping it in deep East Texas. I'd traded some less than elegant shooters for the only CZ 9.3 I could find back when I was trying to get in line to tag along on what was gonna be my 1st trip to Africa....That rifle was the 1st time I ever shot a sub 1 inch 5 shot group from the 1st time I pulled the trigger. "I'm sure" the collector kinda guy my neighbor is.....of course he would ....lololo ...trade it back to me...BS ....he's tighter about his gun collection than any other person I ever met anywhere. Sigh ....mebbe I ought to get a serious pile of Oklahoma Casino chips to tempt him with since he still lives just across the river from a BIG Casino at Lake Texoma...and I had lived 4 doors down the street from him. It'd be probably cheaper and faster to have the barrel swapped off my SC built M70 and rebarrel that rifle into a 9.3...and be the only one in captvity.
Ron

Great point on properly handling the meat. I’ve heard pronghorn antelope referred to as “stink goats”. On one NM hunt, we entered a ranch, saw a goat hanging from an old front end loader. We killed our goats, had them gutted, skinned and on ice shortly after they were killed. As we exited the property, that animal was still hanging. And by then, it was pushing 100 degrees. I’m sure that goat was pretty “stinky” by then.

Handled right, they’re good eating.

DF

sakoron; thanks for starting a fun and interesting thread.

AGW; thanks for your perspectives and excellent descriptions of how terrain affects choice of weaponry.

Dirtfarmer; almost any beastie properly taken care of is at least tolerable eating. Most of them when well taken care of are very good to excellent eating, pronghorn is my second most favourite meat, Springbok is #1. No surprise sir that took care of your kill and provided it the respect it deserved.

Best regards to all.


GRF

Can’t comment on Africa game other than what I’ve heard. Elk processed well is great, nilgai is good and you’re right about pronghorn. I think all three are better than whitetail, but processed and cooked right, that’s good eating as well.

DF

I know a man that that killed a Nilgi with a 30-30 Contender handgun. If I hunted them or Sambar I would use my 416 Remington loaded with 350 grain TSX at 2630 FPS average speed.