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Re: Arbery verdict in....... [Re: The_Real_Hawkeye] #16654516 11/25/21
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Originally Posted by The_Real_Hawkeye
Originally Posted by 5thShock
To be simple, again. Ahmaud Arbery was the only person that night in that place who was entitled by Georgia law to use deadly force.

So, when Arbery attacked Travis McMichaels in an attempt to snatch his shotgun, what was Travis McMichael's legal obligation, assuming he wished to avoid being charged with murder? Please be specific.



While committing a felony and actions that promote or provoke the other person to use force, you have backed yourself into a corner with little to no outs..

If you kill him this trial shows where it goes. If he kills your buddy you can still be charged with Felony Murder.

To answer your question though, back away and hope noone gets shot. But they were already 'too far in' for that.................

BP-B2

Re: Arbery verdict in....... [Re: smokepole] #16654521 11/25/21
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Originally Posted by smokepole
Originally Posted by jwp475

Since Georgia law allowed citizens arrest which allows citizens to detane law breakers. Then the false imprisonment is canceled out
.

That's not what Georgia law says, it's quite a bit more restrictive than what you stated, as far as who can make a citizen's arrest and for what.


It was also the centerpiece of the defense and as such would have been explained to the jury in detail multiple times by people infinitely more qualified on Georgia law (including the judge) than anyone here.

A jury of their peers heard those explanations of Georgia law, heard the evidence, and didn't buy that they acted in accordance with Georgia law.

What else does anyone need?


Are you saying jury's get it right 100% of the time and there is no room to debate their verdict?

Re: Arbery verdict in....... [Re: Muffin] #16654525 11/25/21
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dakota300rum Offline
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For those of you that explain legal justification fine. But in no stretch of the law was this à just legal or moral verdict.

Re: Arbery verdict in....... [Re: smokepole] #16654528 11/25/21
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Originally Posted by smokepole
Originally Posted by The_Real_Hawkeye
Originally Posted by 5thShock
To be simple, again. Ahmaud Arbery was the only person that night in that place who was entitled by Georgia law to use deadly force.

So, when Arbery attacked Travis McMichaels in an attempt to snatch his shotgun, what was Travis McMichael's legal obligation, assuming he wished to avoid being charged with murder? Please be specific.



That's a false choice. His legal obligation was to not attempt to detain Arberry at gunpoint in the first place.

Not a false choice. At some point in the interaction, that choice forced itself upon Travis. Assuming Travis didn't wish to be charged with murder also, what was his legal obligation at that point? If you cannot answer the question, the reasoning behind your general argument is fatally flawed.


No man escapes
When freedom fails,
The best men rot in filthy jails;
And they who cried: “Appease, Appease!”
Are hanged by men they tried to please.
Re: Arbery verdict in....... [Re: copperking81] #16654534 11/25/21
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Originally Posted by copperking81
Originally Posted by smokepole
Originally Posted by jwp475

Since Georgia law allowed citizens arrest which allows citizens to detane law breakers. Then the false imprisonment is canceled out
.

That's not what Georgia law says, it's quite a bit more restrictive than what you stated, as far as who can make a citizen's arrest and for what.


It was also the centerpiece of the defense and as such would have been explained to the jury in detail multiple times by people infinitely more qualified on Georgia law (including the judge) than anyone here.

A jury of their peers heard those explanations of Georgia law, heard the evidence, and didn't buy that they acted in accordance with Georgia law.

What else does anyone need?


Are you saying jury's get it right 100% of the time and there is no room to debate their verdict?


No, that's not what I'm saying. I'm saying the self-defense angle in this case did not apply and this jury got it right.



A wise man is frequently humbled.

IC-A

Re: Arbery verdict in....... [Re: The_Real_Hawkeye] #16654541 11/25/21
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smokepole Offline
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Originally Posted by The_Real_Hawkeye
Originally Posted by smokepole
Originally Posted by The_Real_Hawkeye
Originally Posted by 5thShock
To be simple, again. Ahmaud Arbery was the only person that night in that place who was entitled by Georgia law to use deadly force.

So, when Arbery attacked Travis McMichaels in an attempt to snatch his shotgun, what was Travis McMichael's legal obligation, assuming he wished to avoid being charged with murder? Please be specific.



That's a false choice. His legal obligation was to not attempt to detain Arberry at gunpoint in the first place.

Not a false choice. At some point in the interaction, that choice forced itself upon Travis. Assuming Travis didn't wish to be charged with murder also, what was his legal obligation at that point? If you cannot answer the question, the reasoning behind your general argument is fatally flawed.



No, it's not. His legal obligation was to not put himself in the position he put himself in. You do understand that, right?



A wise man is frequently humbled.

Re: Arbery verdict in....... [Re: Muffin] #16654544 11/25/21
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I'm not sure I understand the arguing of a court case that has been settled, other than the punishment yet to be handed out ?

The jury gave it's verdict, judge will set sentencing...why all 3 went into trial together will be a lingering question of stupidity.

Re: Arbery verdict in....... [Re: smokepole] #16654555 11/25/21
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Originally Posted by smokepole
His legal obligation was to not put himself in the position he put himself in.


Could the same argument have been used for George Zimmerman and Kyle Rittenhouse?



Quando omni flunkus moritati
Re: Arbery verdict in....... [Re: Muffin] #16654556 11/25/21
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dakota300rum Offline
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Whose self défense do you choose? This was a wreck from the start bad deal. But the result is also à wreck.

Re: Arbery verdict in....... [Re: Whiptail] #16654568 11/25/21
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Originally Posted by Whiptail
Originally Posted by smokepole
His legal obligation was to not put himself in the position he put himself in.


Could the same argument have been used for George Zimmerman and Kyle Rittenhouse?



No. Rittenhouse didn't attempt to detain anyone.



A wise man is frequently humbled.

IC-B

Re: Arbery verdict in....... [Re: Muffin] #16654572 11/25/21
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The_Real_Hawkeye Offline
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Originally Posted by Muffin
Originally Posted by The_Real_Hawkeye
Originally Posted by 5thShock
To be simple, again. Ahmaud Arbery was the only person that night in that place who was entitled by Georgia law to use deadly force.

So, when Arbery attacked Travis McMichaels in an attempt to snatch his shotgun, what was Travis McMichael's legal obligation, assuming he wished to avoid being charged with murder? Please be specific.



While committing a felony and actions that promote or provoke the other person to use force, you have backed yourself into a corner with little to no outs..

If you kill him this trial shows where it goes. If he kills your buddy you can still be charged with Felony Murder.

To answer your question though, back away and hope noone gets shot. But they were already 'too far in' for that.................

If he's not able to use lethal force to prevent it, that only leaves him the choice of handing Arbery the shotgun, i.e., handing a shotgun to someone fitting the description of a local felon? Setting aside the lunacy of handing a shotgun to a suspected felon in the midst of a confrontation with him, is it even legal to arm a suspected felon in Georgia?


No man escapes
When freedom fails,
The best men rot in filthy jails;
And they who cried: “Appease, Appease!”
Are hanged by men they tried to please.
Re: Arbery verdict in....... [Re: smokepole] #16654587 11/25/21
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Originally Posted by smokepole



No, it's not. His legal obligation was to not put himself in the position he put himself in. You do understand that, right?



Personal choice is something most don’t understand, make the right choice and life is good, but when the wrong choice is made it’s always somebody else fault for the outcome.
Kinda like walking into a bar full of Norwegians and shouting I hate worthless, porch swinging, pos Norwegians then blaming them for you getting your azz kicked.



Swifty
Re: Arbery verdict in....... [Re: The_Real_Hawkeye] #16654589 11/25/21
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smokepole Offline
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Originally Posted by The_Real_Hawkeye
Originally Posted by Muffin
Originally Posted by The_Real_Hawkeye
Originally Posted by 5thShock
To be simple, again. Ahmaud Arbery was the only person that night in that place who was entitled by Georgia law to use deadly force.

So, when Arbery attacked Travis McMichaels in an attempt to snatch his shotgun, what was Travis McMichael's legal obligation, assuming he wished to avoid being charged with murder? Please be specific.



While committing a felony and actions that promote or provoke the other person to use force, you have backed yourself into a corner with little to no outs..

If you kill him this trial shows where it goes. If he kills your buddy you can still be charged with Felony Murder.

To answer your question though, back away and hope noone gets shot. But they were already 'too far in' for that.................

If he's not able to use lethal force to prevent it, that only leaves him the choice of handing Arbery the shotgun, i.e., handing a shotgun to someone fitting the description of a local felon? Setting aside the lunacy of handing a shotgun to a suspected felon in the midst of a confrontation with him, is it even legal to arm a suspected felon in Georgia?



LOL, earth to TRH. Would losing control of a shotgun during a struggle with a guy bigger and stronger than you be considered "arming a felon?"

Yeah, that's relevant and on point.



A wise man is frequently humbled.

Re: Arbery verdict in....... [Re: The_Real_Hawkeye] #16654590 11/25/21
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Originally Posted by The_Real_Hawkeye
Originally Posted by WAM
Judge? Jury? Executioner?

Pick one, you can’t be all three in this country under the law.

Dumbfuques abound.

Arbery owns being shot. You don't run up to a guy holding a shotgun and try to grab it from him, unless you're either suicidal or really really stupid (or perhaps mentally disturbed), like that Paul Barnard fellow.

Nope, instead you could piss your pants, cry like a baby girl, and beg him not to shoot you.

How well does that usually work when a mob gets wound up?


My ideal as a conservative:

That each person may reap as he/she has sown.
Re: Arbery verdict in....... [Re: Muffin] #16654606 11/25/21
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dakota300rum Offline
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Hawkeye I agree with your theory. If you are put in that position what would you guys do. Although I would hope I never put myself in that situation.

Re: Arbery verdict in....... [Re: The_Real_Hawkeye] #16654613 11/25/21
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Originally Posted by The_Real_Hawkeye
Originally Posted by Muffin
Originally Posted by The_Real_Hawkeye
Originally Posted by 5thShock
To be simple, again. Ahmaud Arbery was the only person that night in that place who was entitled by Georgia law to use deadly force.

So, when Arbery attacked Travis McMichaels in an attempt to snatch his shotgun, what was Travis McMichael's legal obligation, assuming he wished to avoid being charged with murder? Please be specific.



While committing a felony and actions that promote or provoke the other person to use force, you have backed yourself into a corner with little to no outs..

If you kill him this trial shows where it goes. If he kills your buddy you can still be charged with Felony Murder.

To answer your question though, back away and hope noone gets shot. But they were already 'too far in' for that.................

If he's not able to use lethal force to prevent it, that only leaves him the choice of handing Arbery the shotgun, i.e., handing a shotgun to someone fitting the description of a local felon? Setting aside the lunacy of handing a shotgun to a suspected felon in the midst of a confrontation with him, is it even legal to arm a suspected felon in Georgia?



And that's at least ONE reason why you should not be in the possession of weapons while committing a FELONY......

RE: 'arming a felon in Georgia' being a crime......... You're already in the process of committing a Felony, the one that got you in this position, it seems moot....

Last edited by Muffin; 11/25/21.
Re: Arbery verdict in....... [Re: Muffin] #16654614 11/25/21
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dakota300rum Offline
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Smokepole you lost your credibility.

Re: Arbery verdict in....... [Re: smokepole] #16654615 11/25/21
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The_Real_Hawkeye Offline
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Originally Posted by smokepole

No, it's not. His legal obligation was to not put himself in the position he put himself in. You do understand that, right?

Okay, let's assume the jury got it right, and Travis (with all lawful intention - after all, his intention was to detain a thief for the police, a commendable act) violated some technicality of false imprisonment law. At the point of Arbery's attack upon him, in his effort to wrest his shotgun from his grasp, what was Travis's legal obligation, assuming he wished not to compound his technical violation of the law (unbeknownst to him) with a murder charge?


No man escapes
When freedom fails,
The best men rot in filthy jails;
And they who cried: “Appease, Appease!”
Are hanged by men they tried to please.
Re: Arbery verdict in....... [Re: Bwana_1] #16654633 11/25/21
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Originally Posted by Bwana_1


For a new guy it doesn't appear you have the ability to civilly converse without calling every member rude names...tell me, are you old enough to shave ?


A year and 9 months is a new guy, again you show your intelligence.

I'm 12 btw dumbass

You were a fuggin idiot on HPA and you're a fuggin idiot here. GFY

Re: Arbery verdict in....... [Re: The_Real_Hawkeye] #16654642 11/25/21
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Originally Posted by The_Real_Hawkeye
Originally Posted by smokepole

No, it's not. His legal obligation was to not put himself in the position he put himself in. You do understand that, right?

Okay, let's assume the jury got it right, and Travis (with all lawful intention - after all, his intention was to detain a thief for the police, a commendable act) violated some technicality of false imprisonment law. At the point of Arbery's attack upon him, in his effort to wrest his shotgun from his grasp, what was Travis's legal obligation, assuming he wished not to compound his technical violation of the law (unbeknownst to him) with a murder charge?



If we assume the jury got it right, nothing else matters, does it.



A wise man is frequently humbled.

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